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Old 06-28-2012, 08:49 PM #1009
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
International relations feels like high school never ended.

It's not your country, get over it. You, I and they operate on different wavelengths.
The operation of different wavelengths is the exact problem that creates situations like this. A commonality for respect of human life needs to be approached at a rational level. Empathy creates an inner care for other human beings inside us and I don't dare hinder that. We're human beings capable of great things and to see the hindering of such basic levels of well being (sheer existence) is sickening and absurd. I don't care what fake "boundaries" are laid down to differentiate the idea of one country to the next. I care about individuals and this individual is at harm for expressing himself in a manner that harmed nobody.

If we took your mindset of "get over it" because we "operate on different wavelengths," you wouldn't have one single thing that you have today. Not your freedoms. Not your job. Not your desk you sit at. Not your computer you use to type. We have to approach fundamental levels of morality at a serious, studied level in order to achieve anything. Otherwise, the meaty get needy and overpower all, creating discourse as they hinder the possibilities of all under them.

Just because you and I were lucky enough to be born in this country doesn't mean we can't stand up for those who were unlucky to be born in a country still stuck in barbaric understandings of the world around them and even of each other.
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Old 06-29-2012, 10:33 AM #1010
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That response is asinine and would only apply to a sentiment held by the country in question. It is up to them to change. We don't need more Crusades and blood over ideology. Otherwise you are no better than the Catholics and Romans. Lay off the lennon.

Back to meddling with other nations. France didn't help our revolution for some benevolent cause. Louis merely saw an opportunity for trade and a means to undercut the British empire and her influence in the region. Fun fact.

If you want people to run on the same principles you should dedicate your life to constructing a device that will accomplish that brand of mind control.
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Old 06-29-2012, 10:37 AM #1011
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I felt completely comfortable in Iraq, as long as I didn't discuss politics or religion. It was our mission to be diplomatic above anything else. I didn't know if the Iraqis were muslim, Christian or athiest; all I know is that they were very hospitable toward us and fed us food better than the dining facility. There is something we had common ground on during the war, the preservation of civilian lives. They passed around smokes, and a hookah as we sat down hashing out what needed to be done to find the psychopaths that threatened to blow up the girl's schools.

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Old 06-29-2012, 11:18 AM #1012
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Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
That response is asinine and would only apply to a sentiment held by the country in question. It is up to them to change. We don't need more Crusades and blood over ideology. Otherwise you are no better than the Catholics and Romans. Lay off the lennon.
I'm not asking for Crusades or blood in any manner. How did you get that from my post?

In fact, I'm asking for the exact opposite. I'm asking for peace in a nation stricken with violent lashings for the simplest of freedoms. Actually, I'm not even asking for that. I'm asking for moderate Muslims to speak out against their extreme brothers that want to kill men and women for speaking. Your response is absurd.

Quote:
Back to meddling with other nations. France didn't help our revolution for some benevolent cause. Louis merely saw an opportunity for trade and a means to undercut the British empire and her influence in the region. Fun fact.
Okay.

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If you want people to run on the same principles you should dedicate your life to constructing a device that will accomplish that brand of mind control.
Or I can speak out in the hopes that others will join in, much like the process that has succeeded in granting civil liberties in many, many other countries. I'm not asking for mind control. I'm asking for liberty of mind and an opportunity for those controlling the minds of others to try their hand at developing some better form of well being, rather than being stuck on thousand year-old laws.


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I felt completely comfortable in Iraq, as long as I didn't discuss politics or religion.
Cool. So you're saying the place is fine except for when the very things I'm talking about aren't talked about. Thanks for the support.
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Old 06-29-2012, 11:19 AM #1013
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Sometimes it doesn't matter. There are many things that matter in society, that don't matter in war.
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Old 06-29-2012, 12:03 PM #1014
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Originally Posted by Treghc View Post
I'm not asking for Crusades or blood in any manner. How did you get that from my post?

In fact, I'm asking for the exact opposite. I'm asking for peace in a nation stricken with violent lashings for the simplest of freedoms. Actually, I'm not even asking for that. I'm asking for moderate Muslims to speak out against their extreme brothers that want to kill men and women for speaking. Your response is absurd.



Okay.



Or I can speak out in the hopes that others will join in, much like the process that has succeeded in granting civil liberties in many, many other countries. I'm not asking for mind control. I'm asking for liberty of mind and an opportunity for those controlling the minds of others to try their hand at developing some better form of well being, rather than being stuck on thousand year-old laws.




Cool. So you're saying the place is fine except for when the very things I'm talking about aren't talked about. Thanks for the support.
I was trying to make heads and tails of the wishy washy idealistic garbage you gave me.

Moderate Muslims aren't responsible for the other Muslims. No one is asking atheists to denounce the actions of persecution at the hands of state enforced atheism.

Hell I caught an Arabic news segment a while back where some Muslim.Saudi commentator was saying that the Arabs are barbaric and devolved. His own people. Its out there. But these countries have the right to govern themselves as they see fit without my input. I have my ways and they have theirs, end of story.

The guy broke a law and a sympathetic country extradited a criminal.
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Old 06-29-2012, 12:24 PM #1015
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Treghc I didn't read what you were originally talking about. That does sound ****ed up to me. I believe everyone has a right to criticize religion and choose what they want to believe in. There are times I think it is prudent to keep my mouth shut however. For instance, you can get someone to admit to criminal acts, as long as you don't appear offended when he's bragging about ****. Now once I have said information, I would most definitely end up dead if I decided to narc him out immediately. These things are usually crosschecked with the source. When the source hears what was said, he will just say the informant lied and bring down repercussions on said informant. In this instance, the speaker thought he was safe on twitter, not knowing that facebook/twitter and the rest of the internet is more public than the public. This is why I delete my threads when I am finished with them.

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Old 06-29-2012, 12:54 PM #1016
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Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
I was trying to make heads and tails of the wishy washy idealistic garbage you gave me.

Moderate Muslims aren't responsible for the other Muslims. No one is asking atheists to denounce the actions of persecution at the hands of state enforced atheism.

Hell I caught an Arabic news segment a while back where some Muslim.Saudi commentator was saying that the Arabs are barbaric and devolved. His own people. Its out there. But these countries have the right to govern themselves as they see fit without my input. I have my ways and they have theirs, end of story.

The guy broke a law and a sympathetic country extradited a criminal.
Your submissive nature has been noted for some time now. I already know this of you.

I never said that moderate Muslims are responsible for the actions of other Muslims either. It's amazing the things you can come up with. I am saying, however, that it's rather demeaning to not help a fellow person (or even fellow Muslim) in a case such as this. I see such little support from them when it comes to extremism by their fellow believers though. If they are a religion of peace, actions such as these need to be treated properly by the Muslim community. They are not.

And, again, I don't give a rat's *** about "governments" of "countries." They have never given alternative views a try. That's their fault and I tend to treat human beings as human beings rather than Saudis as Saudis and Iraqis as Iraqis. We should all share fundamental freedoms such as the right to free speech. It's interesting to watch you say the same thing about the upbringing of children - wanting society to have all of their children brought up by their own parents as an ideal - then turn around and tell me that striving for an ideal is none of my business.

I'd be all fine and dandy if this individual had a way to leave the country and become a citizen in another, but it's near impossible for the vast majority of these people trying to escape areas of such cruelty, stripped from fundamental policies allowing well-being of individuals.

Again, just as we fought for the freedom of slaves, just as we spoke out for the rights of women and blacks, and just as we fought for fair treatment of human beings across the globe, this case is no different. I'd rather give a voice then submit to the actions of others and say "well, that's just how it is" because nothing can come from such an attitude.
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Old 06-29-2012, 01:14 PM #1017
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The difference between you and I is rooted in the fact that my positions are merely geared towards the national level, not the globe. It matters not how other populations choose to rule or let themselves be ruled. I see groups of individuals you see individuals forming groups. We view nations and nationality different.

I chose that ideal because it has a damned good track record in this country. I have no desire to see it imposed on the globe. Hell i know it is not attainable.

The only reason I would ever support anything as a global ideal is if it would allow populations to choose the best course of action for themselves. However misguided the results may be. We have a concept for this and it is demonized.

You fight for the global human population. I don't. This is why we are doomed to bicker. Hell this is just a replay of the struggle between internationalists and nationalists.

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Old 06-29-2012, 02:14 PM #1018
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We are all human beings. Why should we separate ourselves in matters that don't harm other individuals (national levels)?
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Old 06-29-2012, 02:54 PM #1019
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We are all human beings. Why should we separate ourselves in matters that don't harm other individuals (national levels)?
I'm not clear what you are asking me, can you clarify?
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Old 06-29-2012, 10:27 PM #1020
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Why bother with the symbolic satanism? It is a completely useless identification. Unless you want to appear as a rebel. Which is childish. You want to show your opposition to Christianity? Don't practice it. Don't base your morals off of it.
well I mainly consider myself as an atheist, but I feel that atheism almost goes hand in hand with nihilism and I don't necessarily jive with nihilism. And symbolic satanism gives me a broader range of personal spiritual freedom.

Can atheists be spiritual? idk, i just dont know.
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Old 06-29-2012, 11:34 PM #1021
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I'm not clear what you are asking me, can you clarify?
Why should we let our care for others be separated by false boundaries, aka nations? Especially in terms of separation due to actions that do not harm others?
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Old 06-29-2012, 11:38 PM #1022
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Why should we let our care for others be separated by false boundaries, aka nations? Especially in terms of separation due to actions that do not harm others?
Why are national boundaries fake? You're begging the question, what is a real boundary? Something genetic or biological? Political? Religious? Ethical?
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Old 06-29-2012, 11:39 PM #1023
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Umm... yeah. It'd be nice to see people oppose such things rather than let it simply swing by because they share a common religion. Giving a voice gives way to change. How would blacks ever get their rights if they didn't voice themselves? How would women have gotten their rights without voicing themselves? How would international relations work without voicing opinions?
Those people sure didn't get their rights because some white guy posted a reddit link and expressed how much he cares. You aren't the voice yano.
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Old 06-30-2012, 12:06 AM #1024
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Those people sure didn't get their rights because some white guy posted a reddit link and expressed how much he cares. You aren't the voice yano.
Find a post where I said that.

Your assumptive qualities really deter from your credibility and your ability to discuss cohesively. I enjoy your insight and you're definitely an intelligent guy, but I and many others are not your pointless jabs, man... There's a reason every single person on this forums brings this up. Pay a bit more attention to it.

I'm trying to say that I find it outrageous moderates of religious followers don't seem to condemn the actions of extremists, especially in the cases of Islam. We have our very own Supra who doesn't condemn the acts of 9/11. Hell, he says all of those innocent people deserved to be killed. It's outrageous.

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Why are national boundaries fake? You're begging the question, what is a real boundary? Something genetic or biological? Political? Religious? Ethical?
I'm saying there aren't any real boundaries. We're all human beings. Why does a person born in a different area deserve different treatment?
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Old 06-30-2012, 12:12 AM #1025
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I'm trying to say that I find it outrageous moderates of religious followers don't seem to condemn the actions of extremists, especially in the cases of Islam. We have our very own Supra who doesn't condemn the acts of 9/11. Hell, he says all of those innocent people deserved to be killed. It's outrageous.
Actually you didn't say that originally, you asked a rhetorical question in a thread for atheists. If you really wanted to know why moderate followers of Islam aren't being loud about this you'd ask them. The same quality you don't like in me is one others appreciate versus this sort of clever question-dodging that you provide.

Supra isn't a moderate.


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I'm saying there aren't any real boundaries. We're all human beings. Why does a person born in a different area deserve different treatment?
Again, you talk about my annoying qualities, yet you're such a bull****ter. It's fine, just acknowledge it. You never said there aren't real boundaries. You said why should our care for others be separated by false boundaries. This assumes real boundaries. Either way you're wrong.

It doesn't deserve them different treatment. How did Martian treat them any differently? He expressed indifference to it, and discussing it. You aren't treating them any differently either, hence the white guy posting a reddit link.

edit: Have you ever noticed how whenever anyone disagrees with you on something you think you know something about you say "what I'm trying to say is../what i am saying..."

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Old 06-30-2012, 12:27 AM #1026
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Actually you didn't say that originally, you asked a rhetorical question in a thread for atheists.
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Where are the Muslim moderates in cases like these that appear to happen on a weekly, if not daily basis?
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Umm... yeah. It'd be nice to see people oppose such things rather than let it simply swing by because they share a common religion.
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I'm asking for moderate Muslims to speak out against their extreme brothers that want to kill men and women for speaking.
What?

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Supra isn't a moderate.
You're right. This is true.

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Again, you talk about my annoying qualities, yet you're such a bull****ter. It's fine, just acknowledge it. You never said there aren't real boundaries. You said why should our care for others be separated by false boundaries. This assumes real boundaries. Either way you're wrong.
Me asking that question does not mean I never said there aren't real boundaries. Read my posts:

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I don't care what fake "boundaries" are laid down to differentiate the idea of one country to the next.
This is me stating I don't believe there are real boundaries. Not that hard to understand, is it?

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It doesn't deserve them different treatment. How did Martian treat them any differently? He expressed indifference to it, and discussing it. You aren't treating them any differently either, hence the white guy posting a reddit link.
Martian expressed that he didn't care because it's his fault for the repercussions at hand. I've been trying to say that his repercussions are unjust and I don't see a reason for such a treatment to take place on such a consistent basis. I'm not going to regurgitate our previous posts though. You can actually read them and catch up.
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Old 06-30-2012, 12:28 AM #1027
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Why should we let our care for others be separated by false boundaries, aka nations? Especially in terms of separation due to actions that do not harm others?
Boundaries are real and men die and will continue to die for them. As real as any product of our minds which shape land and event. We are not obligated to care for anyone. This leads into my thread of course. I'll get to all those tommorow when I'm sober.
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Old 06-30-2012, 12:34 AM #1028
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Boundaries are real and men die and will continue to die for them. As real as any product of our minds which shape land and event. We are not obligated to care for anyone. This leads into my thread of course. I'll get to all those tommorow when I'm sober.
Men create boundaries, yes. But I find them unnecessary and a rather crude creation. I don't think boundaries are reason for differing the treatment of fellow human beings and their basic foundations for well being. It forces one to be subject to unnecessary punishments like the one I provided earlier simply because they were unfortunate enough to be born there. I realize there's not much we can do about this, but it's an ideal I strive for.

We are not obligated to care for anyone either. You're right about that too. But it doesn't mean we can't.
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Old 06-30-2012, 12:35 AM #1029
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I'm indifferent towards the criminal in question. I feel like many of our views and subsequent laws are absurd yet I am beholden to them so long as I call this place home. That is the way it is.
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