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Old 04-14-2011, 08:12 PM #211
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Umami View Post
Unfounded faith is blind assumption.
Anytime "faith" is used in religious sense, I equate it towards blind assumption. In all accounts, this seems more accurate. I find the use of the word "faith" in religious context to be drastically different from the literal use of "faith" that mostly requires predetermined knowledge based off previous happenings.
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Old 04-14-2011, 10:11 PM #212
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http://www.hulu.com/watch/177625/lou...ven#s-p1-sr-i1
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Old 04-14-2011, 11:29 PM #213
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How is it that I have just found this place? It's amazing. I question my existence every day of my life, and I just now made it a point to find others that think along the same terms.
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Old 04-15-2011, 12:29 AM #214
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God damnit. Sky is falling.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Umami

I prefer to call them predictions based on well-known patterns rather than presumptions. Substantially less faith is required to believe the sun will rise tomorrow than to believe an unobservable supreme being exists.
Exactly. IMO the word faith implies a jump without looking philosophy.

I don't like the word.
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Old 04-15-2011, 01:04 AM #215
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Originally Posted by OhIoCoNtRActKilLa View Post
How is it that I have just found this place? It's amazing. I question my existence every day of my life, and I just now made it a point to find others that think along the same terms.
Welcome to the thread, hope you keep posting.
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Old 04-15-2011, 01:43 AM #216
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Is it just me, or does anyone else think this brand of Christian is especially demented? Religion seriously scares me some times...

(Quoted from our PM discussion. His grammar, dots, and capitalization. I only underlined/bolded parts of focus that struck me)
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well... honestly your talking to a person who has hands on experience with God... like i literally have zero doubts because on a day to day walk i talk to God person to person..... i teach a sunday school class, i have held services with CHILDREN to receive the Holy Spirit, id take them out one by one to lay hands on them like the bible says to in the book of acts and they would start talking in tongues as the Holy Spirit gave them the utterance... i am a tongue talker myself.... like what the book of acts describes and what all the new testament church was whom paul wrote to

heres a good read on tongues through out church history
http://brothermel.com/tonguesthrough...chhistory.aspx

i cant really make it clearer because the whole foundation of Christianity is faith, you just continually cast the argument in your head down that there isnt a God and keep pushing forward.

people like to make fun of the pentecostal type preachers where they see bodies hitting the floor, and they talk about how they dont believe God heals people on stage... well iv been one of those people healed, iv been one of those people who have fallen out under Gods power, i was teaching my sunday school class and my pastors wife came in and said she wanted all the children in the service and me included the minister was going to lay hands on us, i walked into the service to the front where he was laying hands on people, already saw about 3 people on the ground, in my head i was thinking, oh man this is gonna be weird, and sure enough, he layed hands on me and boom i was on the ground only thing i can describe it was was as if something picked me up and set me down...

so really i cant formulate it into words strictly from scriptural experience because all my life i have been exposed to Gods miracle power... its not just words on a page my day to day life expresses God its just the way i live anymore.

so to pin it down with specific scripture im going to have to revert back to what i already said, you keep the word in front of your eyes, you get in services where they preach the Holy Spirit, like what i just linked you, you learn your authority as a believer, and you put it into practice and God moves
(For context go to the thread here: http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3589067&page=2)

Edit: This seems like a good time to place this little highlight reel from the documentary: Jesus Camp

Seriously, they're only ****ing kids. These people are worse than WBC.
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Old 04-15-2011, 01:55 AM #217
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You believe in something hard enough, you make it real.

Like my mom. She said my brother told her he met Gary Busey while stationed in Cape Town, South Africa. It was Danny Glover... But to this day, in her mind, it was Gary Busey. she gets defensive to the point of hysteria. My brother took a picture of them together. She says it's a fake. She's also a non questioning believer of the bible. So yeah.
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Old 04-15-2011, 08:43 AM #218
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Poor kids.
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Old 04-15-2011, 08:49 AM #219
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Do you guys ever wonder if you're just wasting your time debating "true believers"? I'm starting to think that people have a biological basis for their beliefs (studies show that conservatives have a larger fear section of the brain).

http://www.aolnews.com/2011/04/10/st...fferent-video/
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Old 04-15-2011, 08:58 AM #220
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spracks21 View Post
Is it just me, or does anyone else think this brand of Christian is especially demented? Religion seriously scares me some times...

(Quoted from our PM discussion. His grammar, dots, and capitalization. I only underlined/bolded parts of focus that struck me)

(For context go to the thread here: http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3589067&page=2)

Edit: This seems like a good time to place this little highlight reel from the documentary: Jesus Camp

Seriously, they're only ****ing kids. These people are worse than WBC.
and we wonder why people kill for religion.
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Old 04-15-2011, 09:37 AM #221
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Originally Posted by wavesport001 View Post
Do you guys ever wonder if you're just wasting your time debating "true believers"? I'm starting to think that people have a biological basis for their beliefs (studies show that conservatives have a larger fear section of the brain).

http://www.aolnews.com/2011/04/10/st...fferent-video/
Fear keeps you alive, bud.
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Old 04-15-2011, 09:55 AM #222
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okie just being rediculous here.. but isnt not believing in a god faith... u cant prove it and u can believe that the big bang or watever created the universe but u cant prove it no more than anybody can prove that a god created the universe.. im atheist but i never understood putting people down for what they believe cuz ultimately atheism is just a belief system in its own right
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Old 04-15-2011, 11:59 AM #223
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Originally Posted by spec_r balla View Post
okie just being rediculous here.. but isnt not believing in a god faith... u cant prove it and u can believe that the big bang or watever created the universe but u cant prove it no more than anybody can prove that a god created the universe.. im atheist but i never understood putting people down for what they believe cuz ultimately atheism is just a belief system in its own right
This horse has been beaten to death.

You can never prove anything doesn't exist. On more than one occasion scientists have declared a species extinct only for it to show up in some other remote location. On those same lines, are you going to start to believe in fairies and dragons and unicorns, just because we can't definitively prove they don't exist? No, that's silly. In the same way I view a religious faith in God as silly.

To be honest I'm at the point where if anyone wants to delude themselves with a belief in God fine, I can't do anything about it. But that doesn't mean God or anything in his follower's books trump reality, and when the faithful try to advocate that it does is when I get upset.

So, do I have faith that God doesn't exist? No. I have a lack of faith in the existence of God. I have faith in scientific empiricism and reason, a faith which is incompatible with faith in God.
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Old 04-15-2011, 12:06 PM #224
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...I have faith in scientific empiricism and reason,...
I swear we've been in arguments about that.
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Old 04-15-2011, 12:10 PM #225
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Hey Umami would you say you're a positivist? Empiricist? etc.?
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Old 04-15-2011, 12:17 PM #226
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I swear we've been in arguments about that.
I've been in this discussion so many times on here I wouldn't be surprised. If you're going to wander towards pascal's wager, don't waste your time.
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Hey Umami would you say you're a positivist? Empiricist? etc.?
I don't know enough philosophy to be able to classify myself in either group.
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Old 04-15-2011, 12:18 PM #227
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I've been in this discussion so many times on here I wouldn't be surprised.

I don't know enough philosophy to be able to classify myself in either group.
Ah. Just wondering, that comment on scientific empiricism got me thinking.
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Old 04-15-2011, 02:22 PM #228
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Originally Posted by wavesport001 View Post
I'm starting to think that people have a biological basis for their beliefs (studies show that conservatives have a larger fear section of the brain).

http://www.aolnews.com/2011/04/10/st...fferent-video/
When you study the brain, you have to keep in mind that our brain structure affects the way we think, but the way we think affect our brain structure. So that study isn't really telling us anything. Are they conservative because their brain is shaped differently or is their brain shaped differently because they are conservative? We really don't have an answer for this.

http://psychcentral.com/blog/archive...structure-yes/
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Old 04-15-2011, 02:27 PM #229
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Originally Posted by spec_r balla View Post
okie just being rediculous here.. but isnt not believing in a god faith... u cant prove it and u can believe that the big bang or watever created the universe but u cant prove it no more than anybody can prove that a god created the universe.. im atheist but i never understood putting people down for what they believe cuz ultimately atheism is just a belief system in its own right
Christians are the one's making the claim that there is a god, and more specifically that their god is the correct one. Therefore, the burden of proof falls upon them.

It is also a law of logic that you are never called upon to prove a negative. Of course we can't prove there is no god, or that the tooth fairy doesn't exist for that matter. If they are both made up beings, then there is obviously no data on them either way.

I can tell you there is an invisible pink unicorn in my bedroom right now, and you can't prove I'm wrong. I know it's there, because I have strong faith. I know it is capable of being both pink and invisible, because it is a magical creature beyond my simple human mind's comprehension. See how this works? This is why the "you can't prove there isn't a god" argument falls on it's own *** in a second. Now if you want to form an argument based on your faith, or ancient scripture, be my guest. But don't pretend there is any scientific evidence or objective support information to give weight to the claim.

And if you think the Big Bang theory can be put anywhere near the same category as the creation hypothesis, then you are delusional. You may want to actually look at some of the research done on the subject, and follow the evidence and reasoning which has been put up for scrutiny for years, that has lead scientists to accept the Big Bang as the leading theory of how the universe came to be in its present state. I promise it will sound more likely than, "God said let there be light, and there was light."
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Old 04-15-2011, 04:31 PM #230
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A good quote (while i cant remember where i saw it) pertaining to this recent string of posts:

"While it can be said that nothing is certain, it is important to understand that everything is not equally uncertain."
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Old 04-15-2011, 09:12 PM #231
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^^^ http://hermiene.net/essays-trans/rel..._of_wrong.html ^^^
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