Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 06-01-2014, 10:01 PM #1
PBBlastah
 
 
PBBlastah's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2014
Annual Supporting Member
Cool Solving the Problem of Evil

Just wanted to start a thread discussing the Problem of Evil.

I will probably be filling in my own Christian perspective on this issue below at some point, but I wanted to open up the topic for discussion

Fun fact; I am an anti-calvinist
__________________
WTB Smart Parts Girls Barrel Covers!!! I will not be satisfied until I have a full harem of ladies stuck on the tip of my barrel :D

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.p...+barrel+covers


Originally Posted by SamBenson
"being broke isnt fun
but being broke because of paintball is"
PBBlastah is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sponsored Links Remove Advertisement
Advertisement
Old 06-02-2014, 12:10 AM #2
Volucris
asmuchtextastheywillallow
 
Volucris's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Nashville
What is evil?
Volucris is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2014, 01:24 PM #3
onetwothree123
 
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: WA
Opposition to good.
onetwothree123 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2014, 01:25 PM #4
Umami
"That guy"
 
Umami's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Baltimore
Umami works for a Paintball manufacturer
Umami supports our troops
Why is it a problem?
__________________
Yeah, well, that's just like, your opinion, man.

I am affiliated with Lurker Paintball. My opinions are my own and do not reflect those of LurkerPB.
Umami is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2014, 01:34 PM #5
Fastedd27
Not So Fast ;)
 
Fastedd27's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Orlando, FL
Annual Supporting Member
Fastedd27 owns a Planet Eclipse Geo
How can there be good if there is no evil?
__________________
GEO3 LNIB+ UP'd Origin EGO8+PM8+TANKS+MORE

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.p...1#post80711063
Fastedd27 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2014, 04:10 PM #6
PBOldTimer
Yeah, I'm that Ref
 
PBOldTimer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Jim Thorpe, PA
 has been a member for 10 years
PBOldTimer owns a Planet Eclipse Etek
PBOldTimer has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
Consider this: there's no such thing as good or evil. They're man-made concepts. Concepts which are used to place value on people's actions.
__________________
I'm here to kick butt and chew bubble gum... and I'm all out of bubble gum!
PBOldTimer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2014, 04:16 PM #7
Iamamartianchurch
 
 
Iamamartianchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
The problem of evil doesn't exist. We explain it to each other through our mental models and often find paradoxes and contradictions in them. That doesn't mean evil doesn't exist, it just means our models are incomplete or inaccurate or both. Eventually you have to step back and accept the fact that if there is such thing as an objective Evil, then these little paradoxes are expressions of our limitations and not much more. Evil as a phenominon is not bound to the little abstractions we make to make sense of it.

Way more interesting:

What about the problem of sempiternality? At some point the residents of heaven are going to have said all that can be said to one another as well as having done all that can be done within whatever parameters the afterlife grants a person. Absolute rest is bound to happen and when that occurs really the only thing left to do to is to die. Otherwise sempiternal life is the equivalent of being a box on the shelf of a convenience store.
Iamamartianchurch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2014, 11:34 AM #8
PBOldTimer
Yeah, I'm that Ref
 
PBOldTimer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: Jim Thorpe, PA
 has been a member for 10 years
PBOldTimer owns a Planet Eclipse Etek
PBOldTimer has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
I think I once saw a Star Trek episode that touched on that topic. A member of the Q Continuum had existed for so long that he'd done everything there is to do, and saw everything there is to see. He had become so bored of his existence that he wanted to die.

Definitely an interesting thought.
__________________
I'm here to kick butt and chew bubble gum... and I'm all out of bubble gum!
PBOldTimer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-03-2014, 12:35 PM #9
Iamamartianchurch
 
 
Iamamartianchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
I think they all hit that point though. They ceased talking to each other entirely and basically sat there. I think the Q wanted to die not just to put an end to his own boredom but to end the stagnation of the continuum. I think he said something like "My death would give them something to talk about......." That was one of my favorite episodes because it touches on some deep ****. TNG ruled **** everything before and after it though.

Nice catch on the influence though.
Iamamartianchurch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2014, 12:16 PM #10
Savage Mikey
 
 
Savage Mikey's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2013
Location: Vancouver, WA
Sempiternality... had not heard of that word before but have thought about the concept.

Back to the topic. I dont really use the word evil much to describe things. I guess I dont view "evil" as a all encompassing thing/concept that needs to be solved.
Savage Mikey is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2014, 03:10 PM #11
Umami
"That guy"
 
Umami's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Baltimore
Umami works for a Paintball manufacturer
Umami supports our troops
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
What about the problem of sempiternality? At some point the residents of heaven are going to have said all that can be said to one another as well as having done all that can be done within whatever parameters the afterlife grants a person. Absolute rest is bound to happen and when that occurs really the only thing left to do to is to die. Otherwise sempiternal life is the equivalent of being a box on the shelf of a convenience store.
I ain't even worried, heat-death will take care of it.
__________________
Yeah, well, that's just like, your opinion, man.

I am affiliated with Lurker Paintball. My opinions are my own and do not reflect those of LurkerPB.
Umami is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2014, 04:13 PM #12
Iamamartianchurch
 
 
Iamamartianchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Quote:
Originally Posted by Umami View Post
I ain't even worried, heat-death will take care of it.
Cosmic AC will save us.
Iamamartianchurch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-04-2014, 04:23 PM #13
Umami
"That guy"
 
Umami's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Baltimore
Umami works for a Paintball manufacturer
Umami supports our troops
Quote:
Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
Cosmic AC will save us.


Intelligent sarcasm is the best.
__________________
Yeah, well, that's just like, your opinion, man.

I am affiliated with Lurker Paintball. My opinions are my own and do not reflect those of LurkerPB.
Umami is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-07-2014, 09:58 PM #14
ironyusa
reappropriating resources
 
ironyusa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Dallas, TX
What is anti-Calvinist? You don't believe in some part of TULIP?

Sempiternality is kind of irrelevant... Without the concept of time there is no boredom so to speak and if you already accept God as omnipotent then He can provide enough entertainment.

As for evil... Well as a Christian I assume you accept moral absolutes. Most people here don't so it's impossible to establish a common ground to even be able to define "evil" let alone solve it.

Good and evil don't require each other to exist. Contrast is easier for people to understand because it provides a cleaner context. It's this fundamental misunderstanding that allows people to view the devil as God's equal.
__________________
New ideas being shown at: inceptionforums.com
ironyusa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2014, 10:10 PM #15
Fubarius
Yep, it's orange.
 
Fubarius's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: New Richmond, WI
Annual Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
Fubarius supports our troops
Fubarius has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
Fubarius has achieved Level 2 in PbNation Pursuit
Fubarius is a Forum Captain
Quote:
Originally Posted by ironyusa View Post
What is anti-Calvinist? You don't believe in some part of TULIP?
A number of flavors of Christianity see Calvinism as not only wrong, but "holy crap is that wrong".
__________________
David Johnson, AKA Fubarius.

000110 200 11202 10 000020
012211 021 22110 22 121101
222001 222 10220 00 022212
Fubarius is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-08-2014, 11:35 PM #16
Umami
"That guy"
 
Umami's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Baltimore
Umami works for a Paintball manufacturer
Umami supports our troops
Quote:
Originally Posted by ironyusa View Post
Sempiternality is kind of irrelevant... Without the concept of time there is no boredom so to speak and if you already accept God as omnipotent then He can provide enough entertainment.
Apart from being fairly besides the point, that seems rather insulting.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ironyusa View Post
Good and evil don't require each other to exist.
Show your work.
__________________
Yeah, well, that's just like, your opinion, man.

I am affiliated with Lurker Paintball. My opinions are my own and do not reflect those of LurkerPB.
Umami is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2014, 07:54 AM #17
ironyusa
reappropriating resources
 
ironyusa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Dallas, TX
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fubarius View Post
A number of flavors of Christianity see Calvinism as not only wrong, but "holy crap is that wrong".
I'm not that ignorant to say that doctrinal differences don't exist. Most people reject a specific point of the 5 in Calvinism. I want to know what OP specifically rejects.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Umami View Post
Apart from being fairly besides the point, that seems rather insulting.



Show your work.
Not at all insulting. If someone already accepts God as creator then saying He'll let His children get bored in eternity is a nonsensical concept. It wasn't me that brought it up first anyway.

Not everything requires an opposite. More specifically, not everyone requires an opposite. It's a philosophic and attributive framework that doesn't make sense for anything more than rationalization. Why do you think there needs to be perfect symmetry?


My original post was directed more to the OP. He provided a very vague framework for discussion and unless he can reel in his ideas this thread will be circular.
__________________
New ideas being shown at: inceptionforums.com

Last edited by ironyusa : 06-09-2014 at 09:34 AM.
ironyusa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2014, 09:49 AM #18
Iamamartianchurch
 
 
Iamamartianchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Sempiternal beings experience time, there just is no end. Eternal beings do not experience time. It seems you are implying that when people die, they go to heaven and essentially become God. Which is - uh- interesting..
Iamamartianchurch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2014, 11:54 AM #19
ironyusa
reappropriating resources
 
ironyusa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Dallas, TX
That's a pretty far-gone conclusion... If you accept the Christian viewpoint that it is spirit that lives on; what is driving your conclusion that spirit knows time?
__________________
New ideas being shown at: inceptionforums.com
ironyusa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2014, 12:26 PM #20
Iamamartianchurch
 
 
Iamamartianchurch's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
No it really is not. Eternal means existing outside time. Classical theism is pretty clear that God is an eternal being thus God experiences every moment in a single instance for lack of a better way of putting it. Sempiternal means roughly that a thing lasts forever. That doesnt place it outside of time itself. The reason I say that defining the Christian after life as eternity rather than sempiternal life "the spirit/soul lives forever in heaven." implies that the Christian becomes God in the afterlife is because the quality of being eternal at least implies omniscience. It implies omnipotence if the Christian soul has any power to act in this state. If the Christian soul is perfected by God then it is necessarily omni-benevolent. Unless the Christian soul is sempiternal, it becomes God necessarily by the fact that there can only be one ultimate. Since the eternal Christian soul would posses all the qualities of God, it would be indistinguishable from God. Then you're in even weirder of a situation because individuality is obliterated and that seems to slam right in the face of Christian teachings. Not that any true authority exists, but you get the point.
Iamamartianchurch is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-09-2014, 01:35 PM #21
ironyusa
reappropriating resources
 
ironyusa's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Location: Dallas, TX
How do you define of "existence?" Are there varying degrees of existence? How/ where/ within Whom does the spirit exist?

Accepting God as creator already assumes a temporal beginning as defined in reference to Him.

I don't agree that being omnipotent is a characteristic of God's eternal nature, however I could easier accept the inverse.
__________________
New ideas being shown at: inceptionforums.com

Last edited by ironyusa : 06-09-2014 at 01:38 PM.
ironyusa is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump