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Old 04-06-2012, 03:34 PM #1
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Close Small Talk

I like to go into TTMA usually to get a good laugh at other members' expense, but then there are times when I really just cannot grasp how people argue what they argue. So I looked at some quick numbers.

71.3 mil total posts
8.1 mil small talk posts (11.3% of total)

When I first thought of making this thread, 12 of the 40 TTMA threads were ST related, but I would imagine that at any given moment there are 10 to 15 ST related TTMA posts, or lets just say 30%. Now at the time of me typing this, 9 of the TTMA are title change requests. I would imagine this takes mods about 30 seconds (on a slow computer) to take care of and respond with "done." So if you ignore those, that brings it close to 1/2 of the TTMA posts being ST related.

If I were to relate this to a business, which PbN is, then that means almost half of your "employees'" time (I know you guys aren't paid, but I do hope you get something in return, considering all the crap you have to deal with) is spent dealing with 10% of the business that doesn't even contribute to what the business is. It would be like Google saying that out of an 8 hour day, their employees should spend 4 hours taking a break, and only 4 hours actually working.

Now I do know that as such a large community, there will be other interests as well, and there will be times when people will want to talk about completely random stuff to other members that don't fall into any forum. However, I think where those areas are covered are the other off-topics and the forum specific OT threads.

To sum up: if Sanjay owned a paintball field, how would he feel about 10% of the people walking through the doors to come in, take up space, waste 50% of his employees' time, bother and annoy paying customers, and then leave without spending a dime? (By spending money, I mean making paintball related posts, not ASM, etc.)

I posted this in suggestion box so others could chime in.
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Old 04-07-2012, 03:20 PM #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racso
I like to go into TTMA usually to get a good laugh at other members' expense, but then there are times when I really just cannot grasp how people argue what they argue. So I looked at some quick numbers.

71.3 mil total posts
8.1 mil small talk posts (11.3% of total)

When I first thought of making this thread, 12 of the 40 TTMA threads were ST related, but I would imagine that at any given moment there are 10 to 15 ST related TTMA posts, or lets just say 30%. Now at the time of me typing this, 9 of the TTMA are title change requests. I would imagine this takes mods about 30 seconds (on a slow computer) to take care of and respond with "done." So if you ignore those, that brings it close to 1/2 of the TTMA posts being ST related.

If I were to relate this to a business, which PbN is, then that means almost half of your "employees'" time (I know you guys aren't paid, but I do hope you get something in return, considering all the crap you have to deal with) is spent dealing with 10% of the business that doesn't even contribute to what the business is. It would be like Google saying that out of an 8 hour day, their employees should spend 4 hours taking a break, and only 4 hours actually working.

Now I do know that as such a large community, there will be other interests as well, and there will be times when people will want to talk about completely random stuff to other members that don't fall into any forum. However, I think where those areas are covered are the other off-topics and the forum specific OT threads.

To sum up: if Sanjay owned a paintball field, how would he feel about 10% of the people walking through the doors to come in, take up space, waste 50% of his employees' time, bother and annoy paying customers, and then leave without spending a dime? (By spending money, I mean making paintball related posts, not ASM, etc.)

I posted this in suggestion box so others could chime in.
I would like to counter argue this, and given my name is a verb within ST I think I have to clout to do so.

Since PB nation was started in 2001 it has relied upon its off topic section to cause spikes in membership. "Deer gore" and "can I tap it?" are two I can think of off of the top of my head that have caused not only dramatic spikes in users but activity from inactive users. Deer gore in particular is the reason PBN was able to become the paintball website online. Before it there were a half dozen medium forums dedicated to paintball. Small talk made PBN the website it has become. It has grown so large in fact that over the years it has been necessary to break the conversation up into child forums. There was a time when tech, auto, and everything else in off topic were contained soley in small talk. They were split because the topic had reached enough support to cause a new child forum.

You mention that ~10% of all posts are in small talk, but you ignore that there are more people in small talk at any time then anywhere else on the website. Off topic users and small talk users in particular are also likely to spend more time on the website and view more pages a day then others. That leads to increased ad revenue which IS the driving force for the website.

When you look at top posters every one of them is an off topic poster. They are the leaders of the website and have spent more time on here then anyone else. They are dedicated loyal customers who have more incentive to buy ASM In order to view more pages and post faster and more then someone asking how to mod their gun to shoot a BPS faster.

Off topic is in its own section, if you do not want to deal with it then minimize it and you won't see any of the posts. It is very easy to ignore completely if you so choose. Yes small talk has more posts in TTMA, but it also has the most active user base and the most mods working within it. Last time I counted there were 20+, all volunteers who came from within the off topic community.

To sum it up, I look at it like this

Sanjay owns a paintball complex, he invites everyone who wants to come to come. More people come to play paintball then come to hang out. The people that come to hang out have their own room, they stay in that room for the most part and all have or have had in interest in paintball. They buy the most drinks and foods and keep coming back unlike the paintball players who come once or twice never to come again. The only thing Sanjay has had to do is provide them with the room. If he doesn't want them he can tell them to leave at any time but will also lose the parking lot looking busy and active, large amounts of soda and snacks being sold in addition to memberships(asm) and throw away the potential to have sudden spikes in membership again.

-Mink
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Old 04-07-2012, 05:34 PM #3
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I think mink summed that up pretty well.
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Old 04-07-2012, 09:32 PM #4
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If you think half the threads on TTMA being ST related is "bad", you wouldn't believe what kind of **** storm nuking it would cause.
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Old 04-07-2012, 11:30 PM #5
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ST dumbs this site down so bad
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Old 04-12-2012, 07:41 PM #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbmink View Post
I would like to counter argue this, and given my name is a verb within ST I think I have to clout to do so.

Since PB nation was started in 2001 it has relied upon its off topic section to cause spikes in membership. "Deer gore" and "can I tap it?" are two I can think of off of the top of my head that have caused not only dramatic spikes in users but activity from inactive users. Deer gore in particular is the reason PBN was able to become the paintball website online. Before it there were a half dozen medium forums dedicated to paintball. Small talk made PBN the website it has become. It has grown so large in fact that over the years it has been necessary to break the conversation up into child forums. There was a time when tech, auto, and everything else in off topic were contained soley in small talk. They were split because the topic had reached enough support to cause a new child forum.

You mention that ~10% of all posts are in small talk, but you ignore that there are more people in small talk at any time then anywhere else on the website. Off topic users and small talk users in particular are also likely to spend more time on the website and view more pages a day then others. That leads to increased ad revenue which IS the driving force for the website.

When you look at top posters every one of them is an off topic poster. They are the leaders of the website and have spent more time on here then anyone else. They are dedicated loyal customers who have more incentive to buy ASM In order to view more pages and post faster and more then someone asking how to mod their gun to shoot a BPS faster.

Off topic is in its own section, if you do not want to deal with it then minimize it and you won't see any of the posts. It is very easy to ignore completely if you so choose. Yes small talk has more posts in TTMA, but it also has the most active user base and the most mods working within it. Last time I counted there were 20+, all volunteers who came from within the off topic community.

To sum it up, I look at it like this

Sanjay owns a paintball complex, he invites everyone who wants to come to come. More people come to play paintball then come to hang out. The people that come to hang out have their own room, they stay in that room for the most part and all have or have had in interest in paintball. They buy the most drinks and foods and keep coming back unlike the paintball players who come once or twice never to come again. The only thing Sanjay has had to do is provide them with the room. If he doesn't want them he can tell them to leave at any time but will also lose the parking lot looking busy and active, large amounts of soda and snacks being sold in addition to memberships(asm) and throw away the potential to have sudden spikes in membership again.

-Mink
Very nicely put response.

However, I will have to argue that what you are saying just isn't the case. I have seen on numerous occasions where people who do not normally spend time in ST come in and try to start something innocent, only to get the "ST treatment." Ridiculous sarcasm, trolling, insulting, etc. ST has become its own little group.

As for the few, random threads that could bring others in, they're surrounded by so much stupid, random, idiotic crap that it is like a gold mine in the middle of a minefield. Sure, some new members may come along, but at the cost of how many who don't stay?

For those who say "report what you see" it can often be too late. It is like seeing a drunk driver hit someone, then calling 911. Sure, you reported the incident, but someone was already affected.

Quote:
Originally Posted by iTzDoUgiE777 View Post
If you think half the threads on TTMA being ST related is "bad", you wouldn't believe what kind of **** storm nuking it would cause.
Really? That is your reasoning as to why ST should stay? Basically the ST regulars are so bad that that would be the result of screwing with them. Doesn't that just prove my point?
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Old 04-12-2012, 09:43 PM #7
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Really? That is your reasoning as to why ST should stay? Basically the ST regulars are so bad that that would be the result of screwing with them. Doesn't that just prove my point?
No, I think that actually works against your point. You're saying that mods are wasting their time answering ST related TTMA threads, while nuking it would just provoke even more threads to be made in TTMA.
AKA more time spent by Mods and Admins answering questions.
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Old 04-14-2012, 12:50 AM #8
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No, I think that actually works against your point. You're saying that mods are wasting their time answering ST related TTMA threads, while nuking it would just provoke even more threads to be made in TTMA.
AKA more time spent by Mods and Admins answering questions.
So if ST was closed, instead of someone posting 1 thread in TTMA asking why ST was closed and everyone reading it and acting mature, all of ST would come in and be immature in TTMA? That is the counter argument? Since ST is closed, that opens a lot of mods to come in to TTMA from ST and do their thing there, so there wouldn't be a work overload, just a shift for the time being of where the work is being done. So his argument not only proves my point, but doesn't even prove a counter point as to why closing ST would be bad (assuming, as you say, the counter point is that there would be more work).

Eventually the workload would die off in TTMA. A sticky could be made about why ST was closed, and anyone posting a thread in TTMA about it could get warned/infracted/banned. Once that happens, that would open up a lot of mods to disperse to all the other forums and get this site modded the way it should be.
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Old 04-14-2012, 01:36 PM #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racso View Post
So if ST was closed, instead of someone posting 1 thread in TTMA asking why ST was closed and everyone reading it and acting mature, all of ST would come in and be immature in TTMA? That is the counter argument? Since ST is closed, that opens a lot of mods to come in to TTMA from ST and do their thing there, so there wouldn't be a work overload, just a shift for the time being of where the work is being done. So his argument not only proves my point, but doesn't even prove a counter point as to why closing ST would be bad (assuming, as you say, the counter point is that there would be more work).

Eventually the workload would die off in TTMA. A sticky could be made about why ST was closed, and anyone posting a thread in TTMA about it could get warned/infracted/banned. Once that happens, that would open up a lot of mods to disperse to all the other forums and get this site modded the way it should be.
You have a good argument, but here's the real deal:

Do you really want ST users to be roaming all of PbNation, or would you rather they stay in their one forum?
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Old 04-15-2012, 01:29 AM #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racso View Post
Eventually the workload would die off in TTMA. A sticky could be made about why ST was closed, and anyone posting a thread in TTMA about it could get warned/infracted/banned. Once that happens, that would open up a lot of mods to disperse to all the other forums and get this site modded the way it should be.
In TTMA? I wouldn't hold my breath over even that.

You seem to think that I meant only TTMA would be filled with ST'ers. Wrong. The whole site would. Probably before TTMA.

Some ST'ers also have 200+ accounts from their BOS days, and some are still adding to that (Sphere). Those numbers were also accumulated over the course of 2-3 years. If you want to give the site 2-3 years to lose all the spam from ST, sorry, but the admins will think differently.
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Old 04-21-2012, 05:53 PM #11
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Originally Posted by iTzDoUgiE777 View Post
In TTMA? I wouldn't hold my breath over even that.

You seem to think that I meant only TTMA would be filled with ST'ers. Wrong. The whole site would. Probably before TTMA.

Some ST'ers also have 200+ accounts from their BOS days, and some are still adding to that (Sphere). Those numbers were also accumulated over the course of 2-3 years. If you want to give the site 2-3 years to lose all the spam from ST, sorry, but the admins will think differently.
If the STers spread all around the site, then the mods would also spread around the site. Some would eventually become BOS, and not all would have the same energy Sphere has to keep bypassing it. Also, since the mods would be more spread out around the site, other infractable stuff would have better chances of being picked up.

Would like to see what mods actually have to say about this. I know I've seen mods say they would want to do this, and I imagine it has been discussed in the mod forum, so their insight would be interesting.

Also, I find it funny that no one disagrees with my general view of ST.
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Old 04-22-2012, 09:04 AM #12
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Originally Posted by Racso View Post
If the STers spread all around the site, then the mods would also spread around the site. Some would eventually become BOS, and not all would have the same energy Sphere has to keep bypassing it. Also, since the mods would be more spread out around the site, other infractable stuff would have better chances of being picked up.

Would like to see what mods actually have to say about this. I know I've seen mods say they would want to do this, and I imagine it has been discussed in the mod forum, so their insight would be interesting.

Also, I find it funny that no one disagrees with my general view of ST.
It doesn't matter if all ST'ers kept making accounts, because some would and it would be a complete nuisance to the mods. ST is the most heavily moderated forum on the site and people are still slipping by BOS status, infractable things, etc.

The mods have talked about it before, yes. They're saying the exact same thing I am. Nuking ST would do wayyyyyyyyyy more harm than good.

And of course no one disagrees with your general view of ST. It doesn't take half a brain to know ST is a ****hole in it's current state.
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Old 04-22-2012, 09:26 AM #13
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I really don't believe your are serious.

You know making this thread would just cause a ruckus from all the ST members.

AND you know PBN would never take down ST.

Stupid thread is stupid x10.

Yes I do post a lot in ST, do I still go around the site making contributions of my knowledge and GDthings? Yes. Am I still a 16 y/o ****** troll, only on ST. So if you have a problem with 16 y/o ****** trolls, than just don't go in ST.

/thread

Edit: Also, if PBN nuked ST. Their ASM revenue, site traffic, and advertisement space would drop over 50%(Estimated based off my own assumption). Good luck trying to convince them to move on with this plan.
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Old 04-22-2012, 09:50 AM #14
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Old 04-22-2012, 09:51 AM #15
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I'm bout ta get da choppa And ice dis fool. Actin like his **** don't stink.
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Old 04-22-2012, 10:03 AM #16
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Evac's with me and we got da choppa. You goin' down dawg.
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I'm bout ta get da choppa And ice dis fool. Actin like his **** don't stink.
get evac and get in da cah leggo, bout to get REAL icey, realtalk
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Old 04-22-2012, 10:29 AM #17
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Old 04-22-2012, 10:55 AM #18
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Dont sweat, he finna get ice'd, or choppa'd not sure yet
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Old 04-22-2012, 12:36 PM #19
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this such a stupid idea probably coming from some kid who just took their first management class. kid - "I got it, lets save all this time that our free moderators spend watching ST and get rid of it". reality - ST is the reason why this ****ty website has been able to stay around. its not like paintball is doing that great anymore.
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Old 04-22-2012, 01:12 PM #20
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this such a stupid idea probably coming from some kid who just took their first management class. kid - "I got it, lets save all this time that our free moderators spend watching ST and get rid of it". reality - ST is the reason why this ****ty website has been able to stay around. its not like paintball is doing that great anymore.
the kid is a Future Micro-Managing Busy-Body of America
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Old 04-22-2012, 01:14 PM #21
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My name is pinky stussy and I do not approve of the idea proposed. Either way, mods won't close ST.
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