[UNDRPRVLGD_V2 (Banned)]

Originally Posted by orionz06

They may make you lazy, but having a secondary sighting option on the gun does not sound bad. The way of the future is a WML, slide mounted RDS, and a laser with irons still mounted.

I will agree with you on the lazy portion. Ive only used mine while shooting in low and poor lighting at a indoor range.

[orionz06]

Originally Posted by barrel roll

bah. My iron sights never need batteries, and if I can't shoot it with irons I probably shouldn't be shooting a pistol at it.

Well bad guys come at night more often than during the day. Irons dont need batteries, bit tritium vials fall out, lasers die, WML's die, handheld lights die, and RDS' die...

The idea is to give every possible advantage without adding a disadvantage. Lasers do this.

[barrel roll]

So does being my own source of light, but that is just because I am god damn awesome.

Also - doesn't training and weapon familiarization cover the need to actually look down the sights in dark and enclosed spaces such as a house? I always thought the whole muscle memory grip/stance crap was supposed to do that.

[orionz06]

Point shooting only works to a certain distance. You want every chance to hit the target. If point shooting is all you have, it sucks, that is why you want as many options as possible. Buying a laser and a RDS does not mean you stop doing everything else the same, it just means you have more options.

[n_angeli]

Originally Posted by orionz06

I agree 100%, if you re-read what I said, you will see that I think the blinking red light is clouding what little judgement he may have.

A fool and his money are easily parted.

Oh I was agreeing with you, I was just trying to point out that if laser grips are such a huge deal they can still be added afterwards.

[UNDRPRVLGD_V2 (Banned)]

Originally Posted by barrel roll

So does being my own source of light, but that is just because I am god damn awesome.

Also - doesn't training and weapon familiarization cover the need to actually look down the sights in dark and enclosed spaces such as a house? I always thought the whole muscle memory grip/stance crap was supposed to do that.

That made me bust up laughing

[EPAPressure]

Trijicon night sights is what I have on my CCW's. Lasers change the rules for defending yourself IMO.

THIS IS MY OPINION, THIS IS HOW THEY EFFECT ME, THEREFORE THIS IS NOT AN ARGUMENT BUT MORE OF A STATEMENT.

They make you want to look for the laser, giving your brain just one more thing to lock on to when aiming. It's easier to get your muscle memory good with lining up the iron sight picture, because they never fail, and they're always going to drop the bullet where you point them. Lasers DO have to be re-calubrated ( CANT SPELL) from time to time. Did I mention only women have lasers on their guns? I went over that part right?

[orionz06]

Originally Posted by EPAPressure

Trijicon night sights is what I have on my CCW's. Lasers change the rules for defending yourself IMO.

THIS IS MY OPINION, THIS IS HOW THEY EFFECT ME, THEREFORE THIS IS NOT AN ARGUMENT BUT MORE OF A STATEMENT.

They make you want to look for the laser, giving your brain just one more thing to lock on to when aiming. It's easier to get your muscle memory good with lining up the iron sight picture, because they never fail, and they're always going to drop the bullet where you point them. Lasers DO have to be re-calubrated ( CANT SPELL) from time to time. Did I mention only women have lasers on their guns? I went over that part right?

Use the laser when you need the laser. Holding the gun does not change from laser to irons, nor should it. It is one more way to aim the gun. Irons do fail when you cant see them or are in a position that does not lend itself to the perfect stance you practice on the range.

[EPAPressure]

Right, I didn't say you hold the gun differently, I said it makes me look for the laser instead of just using the irons. Why would I need a laser in a SD situation....well I could think of a couple reasons, I just don't like them. Some people do, I just find the, to be another gizmo that doesn't do much for me.

[orionz06]

I wouldnt use it most of the time, but in the dark they pay off, especially in a shoothouse type place. Apply this to how you may have to defend yourself and you can now put pieces together.

[UNDRPRVLGD_V2 (Banned)]

At night time especially IR lasers are amazing for the obvious reasons

[Orvis09]

Originally Posted by EPAPressure

Lasers make you lazy. Remember that diddy.

Yes, I know this. I did my research. But in a stressful situation, where an extra second or two is the matter between life and death, I don't want to chance missing a shot due to a trembling hand. I know I would be shaken up if I ever had to resort to using lethal force.

You can act like a hardass, but chances are most of us would be scared unless you're a professional killer (Marine ).

[UNDRPRVLGD_V2 (Banned)]

Or a professional donut hole

[EPAPressure]

Originally Posted by Orvis09

Yes, I know this. I did my research. But in a stressful situation, where an extra second or two is the matter between life and death, I don't want to chance missing a shot due to a trembling hand. I know I would be shaken up if I ever had to resort to using lethal force.

You can act like a hardass, but chances are most of us would be scared unless you're a professional killer (Marine ).

Not to sound like a hardass, but 3 times I've had to draw my CCW, never fired it, never really " froze up" but adrenaline is a mother ****er. Woulda had not prob pulling the trigger, but as soon as they see the end of that barrel they flee. And never once did I need a laser to be able to hit them

[orionz06]

Originally Posted by EPAPressure

Not to sound like a hardass, but 3 times I've had to draw my CCW, never fired it, never really " froze up" but adrenaline is a mother ****er. Woulda had not prob pulling the trigger, but as soon as they see the end of that barrel they flee. And never once did I need a laser to be able to hit them

What about in the dark? From behind cover? Weak handed while laying down with half of your face smashed in?

[UNDRPRVLGD_V2 (Banned)]

Originally Posted by orionz06

What about in the dark? From behind cover? Weak handed while laying down with half of your face smashed in?

What about upside down mid air while throwing hatchets as you jump through holla hoops of fire at Taliban fighters as they launch RPG's

[orionz06]

Originally Posted by UNDRPRVLGD_V2

What about upside down mid air while throwing hatchets as you jump through holla hoops of fire at Taliban fighters as they launch RPG's

You have IR and nods...

[UNDRPRVLGD_V2 (Banned)]

Originally Posted by orionz06

You have IR and nods...

Check and working on it

[Orvis09]

Originally Posted by EPAPressure

Not to sound like a hardass, but 3 times I've had to draw my CCW, never fired it, never really " froze up" but adrenaline is a mother ****er. Woulda had not prob pulling the trigger, but as soon as they see the end of that barrel they flee. And never once did I need a laser to be able to hit them

I figured that would be the case mostly. But still.

[N3RVE25]

Originally Posted by Orvis09

Yes, I know this. I did my research. But in a stressful situation, where an extra second or two is the matter between life and death, I don't want to chance missing a shot due to a trembling hand. I know I would be shaken up if I ever had to resort to using lethal force.

You can act like a hardass, but chances are most of us would be scared unless you're a professional killer (Marine ).

I'm unsure where having a laser on your gun removes the nerves that cause you to have a shaky hand? There is not logic in that post.

[Orvis09]

Originally Posted by N3RVE25

I'm unsure where having a laser on your gun removes the nerves that cause you to have a shaky hand? There is not logic in that post.

It's visible, and as long as the trigger pull is smooth, that's where the bullet will go. Iron sights with a shaky hand is unbearable, believe me. Holy **** you're dumb.