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Old 01-22-2011, 08:04 PM #43
SportsAction (Banned)
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Drex17 View Post
Difficulty or time required =/= quality.

Maybe you actually have good reasons but it seems like every EQ fanboy can only cite difficulty as why it was so much better "wow iz too easy, its fer nubz" and "levelling took sooo much longer!"
difficulty was only a TINY portion of what made EQ so great, this post was made by somone on this very forum who played EQ during the same timeframe i did, his opinion is basically as close as i've come to hearing somone sum it up:

Quote:
Originally Posted by wavesport001

Don't get me wrong, you're right about WoW - it's the best MMO in it's generation and nothing has come close to topping
it - but it's using a formula that was basically created by EQ (which was the first graphical MUD). It is influential in
a sense that it influences people to play it - I'll agree with you there, but it's not necessarily influential or
innovative as far as video games go. You see, every now and then there are games that come along and tread new ground,
break the mold, and start an entire genre. EQ was one of those games. Everquest was an experiment started by Verant studios
under 989 studios - an offshoot of sony. It was a little known and underfunded project. Noone expected EQ to be nearly
as successful as it was. EQ wasn't the first MMO, Ultima Online gets that claim to fame, but it was the first to basically
take MUD's (text based online rpg's that people used to play in the 90's over the internet and telnet) and give them 3d
graphics. Everything you see in WOW - the text interface, party system, loot system, the idea of rare loot (not really
implemented in UO), massive dungeon raids, etc, was all borrowed from EQ. I'm not saying EQ invented it all, because it
took a ton from MUD's, but EQ was the first game to take it mainstream and make it profitable. Once other companies saw
the success of EQ they began cranking out their own MMO's: Asheron's Call, Dark Ages of Camelot, Shadowbane and eventually
WOW. WOW basically took the torch from EQ, as the original developers had left sony and the game started to lose it's
veteran players. So, while I agree WOW is an awesome game (I've played it a ton myself) it is not as innovative as EQ
because it hasn't really broken any new ground. Even instanced dungeons, as you mentioned, were implemented in EQ in the
Lost Dungeons of Norrath expansion before WOW's release.



If you were playing EQ between the years 1999-2002, consider yourself extremely lucky. Imagine thousands of people thrown
into a completely unfamiliar world together and forced to try to cooperate and work together. Remember, there had never
been a game like this before. If you had never played MUD's (and once EQ started gaining popularity most of the new players
hadn't) then it was an entirely new gaming experience. Imagine being among the first people to play a FPS. Only you're not
playing it by yourself - you're playing it with thousands of other people that you talk to every day and become friends
with. You all experience this new phenomenon together and try to figure it out. Everquest, up until the Shadows of Luclin
expansion (the one after Velious) was an amazing, semi religious experience for it's players. All the rules, customs,
etiquette and other things that people take for granted in MMO's these days were just being thought up, developed and
considered. Everquest was amazing not for how refined a game it was, but for how unrefined and savage it could be. If you
died, it wasn't uncommon for you to run 30 mins in pitch blackness to recover your corpse. Often you would ask your friend
to grab all your items and money off your body for you and hold it for you! There was no in game map either. You had to
find your way using landmarks or the awkward coordinates system. If you wanted to go from one island to another, you took
a 30 min (real time) boat ride. Hard to imagine in today's MMO's. There was a sense of community and real roleplaying that
ceases to exist in todays arcade style games. People would regularly gather in public places and drink and talk just for
the hell of it, for hours on end. To sell items you would sit in a tunnel for hours a day spamming the same for sale
message to the whole zone. People would "camp" a certain rare spawn for up to 24 hours straight in order to get an item
they needed to continue a quest, only to have their kill stolen by a mage who was sitting next to them invisible the
entire time! It's hard to explain, but I miss those days, and so do most people who played back then. Sadly, we can't go
back to those innocent times.
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Old 01-22-2011, 08:42 PM #44
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There's one major flaw in your logic here; innovation does not mean a game is good. While EQ might have been innovative, Blizzard enhanced what EQ did and executed it nearly perfectly, something the EQ developers could not do. WoW extended on the MMO formula and perfected it.

That being said, quality of video games is mostly subjective (not entirely, but mostly). I'm sure EQ players had more fun playing that then any other MMO (and maybe even video game) they've played; and that's kind of the problem here. Some people will say how much fun you have playing a game is how you should judge the quality (after all, it is entertainment); some will say it's how well the developers implemented certain design decisions or how polished the game is. When it comes to the latter, WoW is clearly a better game than EQ.

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Old 01-22-2011, 08:47 PM #45
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Old 01-22-2011, 09:02 PM #46
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Old 01-22-2011, 09:05 PM #47
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You guys forgot Tribes. Epic fun in the 2000s.
yesssssssssssssssssssssssss
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Old 01-22-2011, 09:12 PM #48
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Originally Posted by ayabrae View Post
There's one major flaw in your logic here; innovation does not mean a game is good. While EQ might have been innovative, Blizzard enhanced what EQ did and executed it nearly perfectly, something the EQ developers could not do. WoW extended on the MMO formula and perfected it.

That being said, quality of video games is mostly subjective (not entirely, but mostly). I'm sure EQ players had more fun playing that then any other MMO (and maybe even video game) they've played; and that's kind of the problem here. Some people will say how much fun you have playing a game is how you should judge the quality (after all, it is entertainment); some will say it's how well the developers implemented certain design decisions or how polished the game is. When it comes to the latter, WoW is clearly a better game than EQ.
well clearly due to the resources available..

the majority of the experience over WoW was, as that paragraph explained was hundreds of thousands of people being pushed into a world where they actually had to EXPLORE to find things, items, quests, etc. they weren't just guided by an online data bank, nor did EQ quests have quest markers as WoW does which make it as simple as following dots on a map..

imo MMORPG's are ruined forever due to WoW, which has made the entire goal of the game to get to the end content as fast as possible, in EQ people may have taken YEARS to get to level 50/60, because they were busy doing craft skills, exploring, chatting with friends, helping others, etc.

The new MMORPG generation is simply all result based, and if your not level 70, your trying to get there as quick and as painlessly as possible

Every MMORPG from here on in, even if a game like StarWars the old republic or w/e becomes the new "it" MMORPG, it will be the same ****, people wont give a **** about the story line, enviroment, the first people will get the game on launch day, and hit the level cap within the first month, if not week

Another huge problem that pretty much "pussifies" the MMORPG experiance is instances, if there were no instances and every dungeon was common to the entire MMORPG world, it becomes much more of a "real" world where large powerfull guilds can basically bully smaller less powerfull guilds, if your going to allow people to get to the level cap in a week of playing, you might as well enforce competition amongst those who are.

in EQ, individual guilds controlled the -entire- economy of a server, prices from the smallest spell components to the most expensive weapons were all based on where X guild was, and how many members they had

In the "Arena" zone, which was basically the first form of WoW's duels etc. there would be 250-300 people sitting around an elevated platform watching the best of the best characters from each of the most powerfull and recognizable guilds battle it out, when you saw <X guild> beside their name you automatically knew they were somebody.

And dont even get me started on gryphon rides etc. between towns in WoW.. unless you could find a level capped enchanter, or a HIGH level wizard in EQ to teleport you, you better prep your *** for a 2-4 hour run across the world, sometimes i'd run a character over a 3 hour run just so i could hunt in a certain noob area I liked.

this was the litteral ****:









dont get me wrong, I played WoW for about 2 years, and it was a very very well put-together game, i enjoyed it very much in the early stages and the variation of landscapes, towns, etc. was and is amazing

but no MMORPG will ever feel like EQ.
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Old 01-22-2011, 09:13 PM #49
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SportsAction View Post
difficulty was only a TINY portion of what made EQ so great, this post was made by somone on this very forum who played EQ during the same timeframe i did, his opinion is basically as close as i've come to hearing somone sum it up:
Reminds me a lot like Star Wars Galaxies, Pre-CU.

YES. I SAID IT.

Cue every Pre-CU-ian out there to describe it's amazingness.

I still think that SWG had the best crafting system in any game, ever. Hands-down. And the best skill system. The only game that beats it in economy is EVE.
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Old 01-22-2011, 09:18 PM #50
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Old 01-22-2011, 09:20 PM #51
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Old 01-22-2011, 09:23 PM #52
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Old 01-22-2011, 09:27 PM #53
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>he majority of the experience over WoW was, as that paragraph explained was hundreds of thousands of people being pushed into a world where they actually had to EXPLORE to find things, items, quests, etc. they weren't just guided by an online data bank, nor did EQ quests have quest markers as WoW does which make it as simple as following dots on a map..

Actually, that's EXACTLY how WoW was. Now, the game has changed, but when WoW first released there was no guidance.

>imo MMORPG's are ruined forever due to WoW, which has made the entire goal of the game to get to the end content as fast as possible, in EQ people may have taken YEARS to get to level 50/60, because they were busy doing craft skills, exploring, chatting with friends, helping others, etc.

Every MMO doesn't copy WoW, so that's another moot point.

>Every MMORPG from here on in, even if a game like StarWars the old republic or w/e becomes the new "it" MMORPG, it will be the same ****, people wont give a **** about the story line, enviroment, the first people will get the game on launch day, and hit the level cap within the first month, if not week

The deep story will be one of the selling points for the new SW game.

>Another huge problem that pretty much "pussifies" the MMORPG experiance is instances, if there were no instances and every dungeon was common to the entire MMORPG world, it becomes much more of a "real" world where large powerfull guilds can basically bully smaller less powerfull guilds, if your going to allow people to get to the level cap in a week of playing, you might as well enforce competition amongst those who are.

Subjective point. I disagree anyway.

>In the "Arena" zone, which was basically the first form of WoW's duels etc. there would be 250-300 people sitting around an elevated platform watching the best of the best characters from each of the most powerfull and recognizable guilds battle it out, when you saw <X guild> beside their name you automatically knew they were somebody.

Depending on your server, people can become pretty e-famous on their servers whether it be for PvP, PvE, or just trolling chat channels.

>And dont even get me started on gryphon rides etc. between towns in WoW.. unless you could find a level capped enchanter, or a HIGH level wizard in EQ to teleport you, you better prep your *** for a 2-4 hour run across the world, sometimes i'd run a character over a 3 hour run just so i could hunt in a certain noob area I liked.

Nobody wants to spend 2-4 hours of running. That's just ****ing stupid and boring.

>but no MMORPG will ever feel like EQ.

Yes, it's called nostalgia.
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Old 01-22-2011, 09:29 PM #54
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Quote:
If you were playing EQ between the years 1999-2002, consider yourself extremely lucky. Imagine thousands of people thrown
into a completely unfamiliar world together and forced to try to cooperate and work together. Remember, there had never
been a game like this before. If you had never played MUD's (and once EQ started gaining popularity most of the new players
hadn't) then it was an entirely new gaming experience. Imagine being among the first people to play a FPS. Only you're not
playing it by yourself - you're playing it with thousands of other people that you talk to every day and become friends
with. You all experience this new phenomenon together and try to figure it out. Everquest, up until the Shadows of Luclin
expansion (the one after Velious) was an amazing, semi religious experience for it's players. All the rules, customs,
etiquette and other things that people take for granted in MMO's these days were just being thought up, developed and
considered. Everquest was amazing not for how refined a game it was, but for how unrefined and savage it could be. If you
died, it wasn't uncommon for you to run 30 mins in pitch blackness to recover your corpse. Often you would ask your friend
to grab all your items and money off your body for you and hold it for you! There was no in game map either. You had to
find your way using landmarks or the awkward coordinates system. If you wanted to go from one island to another, you took
a 30 min (real time) boat ride. Hard to imagine in today's MMO's. There was a sense of community and real roleplaying that
ceases to exist in todays arcade style games. People would regularly gather in public places and drink and talk just for
the hell of it, for hours on end. To sell items you would sit in a tunnel for hours a day spamming the same for sale
message to the whole zone. People would "camp" a certain rare spawn for up to 24 hours straight in order to get an item
they needed to continue a quest, only to have their kill stolen by a mage who was sitting next to them invisible the
entire time! It's hard to explain, but I miss those days, and so do most people who played back then. Sadly, we can't go
back to those innocent times.
sounds........fun......
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Old 01-22-2011, 09:55 PM #55
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DiStUrBeD-SoP- View Post
CH/BE reporting in.

**** was tight.
I think we've talked about this at least 4 or 5 times on this board.

Again, for the win: Smuggler/Pistoleer.
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Old 01-22-2011, 10:07 PM #56
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Originally Posted by ayabrae View Post
>he majority of the experience over WoW was, as that paragraph explained was hundreds of thousands of people being pushed into a world where they actually had to EXPLORE to find things, items, quests, etc. they weren't just guided by an online data bank, nor did EQ quests have quest markers as WoW does which make it as simple as following dots on a map..

Actually, that's EXACTLY how WoW was. Now, the game has changed, but when WoW first released there was no guidance.

>imo MMORPG's are ruined forever due to WoW, which has made the entire goal of the game to get to the end content as fast as possible, in EQ people may have taken YEARS to get to level 50/60, because they were busy doing craft skills, exploring, chatting with friends, helping others, etc.

Every MMO doesn't copy WoW, so that's another moot point.

>Every MMORPG from here on in, even if a game like StarWars the old republic or w/e becomes the new "it" MMORPG, it will be the same ****, people wont give a **** about the story line, enviroment, the first people will get the game on launch day, and hit the level cap within the first month, if not week

The deep story will be one of the selling points for the new SW game.

>Another huge problem that pretty much "pussifies" the MMORPG experiance is instances, if there were no instances and every dungeon was common to the entire MMORPG world, it becomes much more of a "real" world where large powerfull guilds can basically bully smaller less powerfull guilds, if your going to allow people to get to the level cap in a week of playing, you might as well enforce competition amongst those who are.

Subjective point. I disagree anyway.

>In the "Arena" zone, which was basically the first form of WoW's duels etc. there would be 250-300 people sitting around an elevated platform watching the best of the best characters from each of the most powerfull and recognizable guilds battle it out, when you saw <X guild> beside their name you automatically knew they were somebody.

Depending on your server, people can become pretty e-famous on their servers whether it be for PvP, PvE, or just trolling chat channels.

>And dont even get me started on gryphon rides etc. between towns in WoW.. unless you could find a level capped enchanter, or a HIGH level wizard in EQ to teleport you, you better prep your *** for a 2-4 hour run across the world, sometimes i'd run a character over a 3 hour run just so i could hunt in a certain noob area I liked.

Nobody wants to spend 2-4 hours of running. That's just ****ing stupid and boring.

>but no MMORPG will ever feel like EQ.

Yes, it's called nostalgia.

Even in the beggning of WoW [when i played] quest NPC's were still highlighted, in EQ you might spend 20 minutes looking for an NPC in the back corner of a bar

Ever MMORPG DOES copy the WoW model of getting to the highest level as quick as possible, this will always be the nature of MMORPG's from now on, until somone comes up with a completely different MMORPG model that does not rely on being the level cap to achieve end-game content.

running 2 hours to get somewhere might seem "stupid and boring" to you, but to run through a zone you'd never seen, and might not see for another 30 levels, to get to your goal was an experiance, and a fun one at that.
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Old 01-22-2011, 10:11 PM #57
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Even in the beggning of WoW [when i played] quest NPC's were still highlighted, in EQ you might spend 20 minutes looking for an NPC in the back corner of a bar

Ever MMORPG DOES copy the WoW model of getting to the highest level as quick as possible, this will always be the nature of MMORPG's from now on, until somone comes up with a completely different MMORPG model that does not rely on being the level cap to achieve end-game content.

running 2 hours to get somewhere might seem "stupid and boring" to you, but to run through a zone you'd never seen, and might not see for another 30 levels, to get to your goal was an experiance, and a fun one at that.
How is that a good thing?

This isn't true. In fact, I always hear people complaining about the length of time it takes to level in other MMO's.

Nope, still seems stupid and boring. Again, your entire argument is based on nostalgia.


And to stay on topic:

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Old 01-22-2011, 10:50 PM #58
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How is that a good thing?

This isn't true. In fact, I always hear people complaining about the length of time it takes to level in other MMO's.

Nope, still seems stupid and boring. Again, your entire argument is based on nostalgia.


And to stay on topic:

it's based on gaming for 22 years.. if i went back to EQ to play today and it was still the same as it was pre-luclin expansion, id has as much fun now as i did then..

your arguments are irrelevent because you never played EQ

Its like driving a honda civic, and arguing that a Ferrari 599 sucks even though you've never driven one..

same **** as idiots who say "lol omg those graphics suck, ****ty game" i'd say in my top 15 favorite games of all time, 10 of them at least are 5-15 years old..

ie.















These games arent just good because of "nostalgia" these are actually GOOD games..

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Old 01-22-2011, 10:53 PM #59
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it's based on gaming for 22 years.. if i went back to EQ to play today and it was still the same as it was pre-luclin expansion, id has as much fun now as i did then..

your arguments are irrelevent because you never played EQ

Its like driving a honda civic, and arguing that a Ferrari 599 sucks even though you've never driven one..
LOL
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Old 01-22-2011, 11:06 PM #60
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Originally Posted by zellthemedic View Post
I think we've talked about this at least 4 or 5 times on this board.

Again, for the win: Smuggler/Pistoleer.
Probably because we were the only ones who played

I miss spending hours designing my house. I valued most items by how useful they would be in creating furniture/decorations that weren't actually in the game.
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Old 01-22-2011, 11:09 PM #61
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LOL
if thats all you've got for come backs you can quit while your ahead..

how old are you? 14?
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Old 01-22-2011, 11:30 PM #62
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if thats all you've got for come backs you can quit while your ahead..

how old are you? 14?
No, it's just that your post didn't warrant a real response. Like I stated already, your argument is based on nostalgia. You ignored everything I said in my last post and just went on about how you've been playing video games for 22 years, like that gives your views anymore weight or something.

You clearly have deep emotional ties to EQ and it's hindering you from thinking rationally. The bottom line is that waiting hours or days for gear, a quest, to run from town to town, etc, is absurd and doesn't make a game better. Just because a group of people likes something doesn't make it good. Kesha sells out concerts, is she a great musician? No.
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Old 01-22-2011, 11:43 PM #63
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Originally Posted by DayoftheGreek View Post
Just to put this in perspective, an entire generation of kids is growing up now who will think katy perry, lady gaga, and kesha are the golden age of music.

Just because it was around when you were young and impressionable doesn't make it better. Diablo 2 is the best game ever though, so props for getting that one right.
This is the truest post in this thread.

Everyone is going to label all of the games that were around when they were of similar age to everyone else. There's a point in one's life when things are new and impressionable to you. You will forever remember these games because of this. Simply reading through this thread provides more than enough evidence to prove this. Everyone is pointing towards games that were out when they were of the same age demographic. While some people were playing the brand spanking new Frogger at this age, others reached that age when games like Counter-Strike first came out.

There is no golden age of gaming. Gaming continues to grow with fun and innovative ideas every single year. Just because a formula was found (much like in the music industry) to sell games well does not mean that the creativity has been hindered in other games.
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