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Old 12-20-2010, 03:56 PM #1
G.I. Sportz MW
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VIDEO for .50 Cal Focus Group at BadLandz & Fox River Games with player feedback.

The customers/players who were in the focus groups played paintball with both .50 cal and then .68 caliber paintballs and then answered a set of questions.

We DID NOT MIX .50 cal and .68 during game play. When we played .50 cal every player had .50 cal and the same goes for .68 cal.
The non- experience players were asked 16 questions and the experienced players were asked 19 questions.

The customers/players we were after at Badlandz and then Fox River Games were different for a reason. At Badlandz we selected a private rental party who had no idea they would be in a focus group until we asked them that day. This first group at Badlandz had very little experience at all.
Out of the group of 12, only 3 customers/players had played paintball before. At Fox River Games we invited players a week before play of all
levels to participate and give feedback. We wanted to get as broad a
player base as possible for feedback from all levels of customers/players.


Jeff From Traumahead was payed to film this and prepare it in a professional manner. We asked Jeff to present it the way it was that day.
We wanted the footage to be raw to illustrate the simple fact that what we were after was straight feedback.

It was as simple as this: We played paintball with both .50 cal and then
.68 cal and then asked this broad range of players some questions.
Here is their feedback.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ria7UHn4D6o
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Old 12-20-2010, 04:08 PM #2
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Old 12-20-2010, 04:10 PM #3
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"the .50 Cal hurt less"
we know, we all know that by now

"the .50 Cal was more accurate"
these are rental/walk-on players who obviously are shooting the cheapest paint they can find. if that paint is $30 WalMart crap of course the G.I. paint will be more accurate

oh and at 4:57 - fat "tourney player" gets shot in the shoulder and doesnt even notice it; 1-for-1 please


c'mon G.I.
you guys make great paint, but stop trying to convince us the .50 Cal paint you're selling can alter physics to fly as far as .68 Cal
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Old 12-20-2010, 05:13 PM #4
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I love how the video is put out by GI Milsim. If it was some independent group that had nothing to gain or lose from the video, I would take it at face value.

However, GI Milsim has a lot to lose, so I doubt they would post anything that would show the .50 cal in a negative light.

It is also funny how all the comments the kids had on the .50 cal where remarkably similar to GI Milsims talking points.

I'm calling shenanigans.
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Old 12-20-2010, 05:43 PM #5
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Video was posted on YouTube by Traumahead Sports. Just an FYI.
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Old 12-20-2010, 07:09 PM #6
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were the new players using anything other than rental tippmann 98's? of course a brand new, pretty nice, .50 cal marker's gonna shoot better. and of course, it's gonna be lighter and be more accurate. if you want a decent comparison, compare smart parts vibes with the GI equivalent.
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Old 12-20-2010, 07:51 PM #7
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sounds terribly scripted, at times people look off camera mid response pausing to read what seems like a teleprompter.
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Old 12-20-2010, 09:11 PM #8
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pushing 50cal through retails stores will kill the fields and kill the sport.

50cal is a great way to serve the niche groups (younger and/or less experienced). That's the end of story. It won't take over the industry.

however, in a competitive situation 68cal is the way to go. I saw those dudes play on when they were hit with 50cal. Less paint for refs to see (its hard enough as it is).
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Old 12-20-2010, 09:12 PM #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ccluff2 View Post
sounds terribly scripted, at times people look off camera mid response pausing to read what seems like a teleprompter.
i'm pretty sure its a fact that we look up and to a certain direction when we think...

There's no conspiracy herel; however this is pretty biased "3rd draft.mov"
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Old 12-20-2010, 10:04 PM #10
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50cal vs 68cal needs to be settled on the field in mixed games. seems to be a more practical demo. takes opinion out of the equation and can show the preformance differences.
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Old 12-21-2010, 09:41 AM #11
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Or its really just how those people felt
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Old 12-21-2010, 01:36 PM #12
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Or its really just how those people felt
That is of course, a possibility. However, the fact that the video was produced by GI MILSIM, it calls into question how reliable it is. Not one person had a single bad thing to say about the .50 cal? That seems unlikely to me.
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Old 12-21-2010, 02:14 PM #13
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Sorry but that is how they felt. I was there, obviously if they had something bad to say or if the majority had a bad opinion the video would have probably never been released. However, even the experienced guys that had admittedly had a negative disposition where moderately impressed as was Tim, a very successful field owner with absolutely no ties whatsoever to GI.
As a side note, it was not "obviously the cheapest paint they could find" the .68 they shot was GI 2 star, a very solid preforming ball. Also it seems pretty ignorant to be calling someone " fat " as an identifying feature because he did`nt acknowledge a hit. I`m fairly certain we could all find some pretty negative things to say about you as well but then that would be pretty childlike, right.
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Old 12-22-2010, 02:29 AM #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snoofy View Post
Sorry but that is how they felt. I was there, obviously if they had something bad to say or if the majority had a bad opinion the video would have probably never been released. However, even the experienced guys that had admittedly had a negative disposition where moderately impressed as was Tim, a very successful field owner with absolutely no ties whatsoever to GI.
As a side note, it was not "obviously the cheapest paint they could find" the .68 they shot was GI 2 star, a very solid preforming ball. Also it seems pretty ignorant to be calling someone " fat " as an identifying feature because he did`nt acknowledge a hit. I`m fairly certain we could all find some pretty negative things to say about you as well but then that would be pretty childlike, right.
I highly doubt that they were shooting GI 2 Star as you claim, who are you exactly to be so close to this focus group?

Additionally what other adjectives would you like me to describe that player with?
He's a big boy and while I'm sure you could find something negative to say about me, i didn't let allow myself get filmed playing on while touting an inferior product. Nor did I allow myself to become so large that anyone would look at me and think "fat".
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Old 12-22-2010, 11:21 AM #15
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[quote=JD9940;69550002]I highly doubt that they were shooting GI 2 Star as you claim, who are you exactly to be so close to this focus group?

It was G.I. 2 Star Paint.
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Old 12-22-2010, 11:29 AM #16
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No kids or adults were paid nor handed a script to read or OMG I cannot believe Im saying this, read from a teleprompter. Real simple what we did. We took mostly young kids who had very little experience and had them play both .50 cal and .68 in separate games. When it was all done we asked them to fill out a questionnaire. We then asked them the questions on camera that they already answered on the questionnaire. These are obviously young kids and some were pretty nervous and or camera shy. Try to understand it from a new customer/players point of view. The vast majority of entry level customers/players sees little difference but they enjoy the .50 cal more and the odds are higher that they will come back to play again. With customers who have experience and are regular players there are differences and pick up on it. I like to think of it like hardball and softball. They are essentially the same game. One can be a bit faster and more aggressive than the other. Not all customers who play paintball at fields/parks want an aggressive game. The majority want to have fun with family and friends. With .50 cal you can tone it down to fit the younger kids much easier.

~ The equipment we used was 5 G.I. Milsim Micro’s which are electronic spool valve guns and the other 15 were G.I. Milsim FM50’s that are mechanical blow back guns.
~ When the two tourney guys are playing one on one we asked that they play on so we could get some footage of breaks and whatever else happened. Oddly enough When Jeff was filming one guy the other guy
would get plowed by a hit. Jeff would switch the camera to the other guy and then murphy’s law would kick in and the other guy would get hit. Our timing was terrible and he had one camera.
~ Why did we have 3 versions to this you ask ? The first two Jeff put together were longer and we wanted it shorter. What we were after was simple feedback and we feel we got it.

We will be doing more of these focus groups as time goes on. If your in the area and hear of one I suggest you try it or at least hang out and listen to the feedback from the players.
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Old 12-22-2010, 12:15 PM #17
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You`re correct you did`nt allow yourself to be filmed or get "so large that..." what you have done though is make an illogical assumption that the group was using inferior paint, when they were not. You yourself said GI makes makes "great paint" so that means the group that was shooting .68 cal GI 2 star was shooting great paint,by your standards.Then, even after it was pointed out to you that was the case you chose to not believe the answer to the question you asked. (Just so you know i work at BBT and help out at the Badlandz and happened to be there that day and watched the vid being shot). If you had done any research prior to writing your post you would know that Badlandz is a GI exclusive field. So at the risk of being offensive here, stupid people make illogical assumptions and really stupid people stick with them even after they find out the facts. So should you be known from this point forward as an imbecile? I doubt you`d like your peer group on Pbnation to feel that you`re a fool, anymore than the guy in the vid wants his group of friends to be watching him then, have to read of some guy calling him out and embarrassing him.
Please pick a better choice of descriptive terminology, talk about people the way you`d like to be talked about is all i`m saying.
The whole thought process behind this , is to show peoples PERCEPTIONS of what they are experiencing , nobody is claiming scientific fact its how they FELT shooting .50 cal vs. .68 cal.
The owner of Fox paintball, Tim on the other hand has tremendous experience in the paintball industry and is pointing out some great facts concerning a field owners advantage in offering a .50 cal option to their customers.
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Old 12-23-2010, 06:24 PM #18
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ok, how will they feel in a mixed game? i would like some feedback in a 50 vs 68 game. especially with the same grades of paint.
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Old 12-23-2010, 07:07 PM #19
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ok, how will they feel in a mixed game? i would like some feedback in a 50 vs 68 game. especially with the same grades of paint.
This is where the rub is (or will be). If .50 is targeted toward newcomers and young kids, they may buy those products only to find they are at a disadvantage against .68 shooters. If they don't want to play at that disadvantage, they have four options.

1. Play only with other .50 players. This creates a striation somewhat like that between Airsoft and paintball (as we currently know it).

2. Spend more money to buy .68 equipment.

3. Deal with the disadvantage.

4. Quit paintball altogether.

I don't see any of those as particularly attractive for the consumer, and only number 2 seems all that attractive to product manufacturers.

Also, if .50 is now targeted primarily at younger players and newcomers, it WILL acquire a stigma of being a "kiddie caliber". That is a dangerous path to take and really only makes sense if it is part of a larger plan similar to planned obsolescence.

Last, it would be interesting to see the questions that were on the questionnaires. Asking a question a certain way is one of the factors to look at in any polling.

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Old 12-24-2010, 11:24 AM #20
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Why do you feel that its such a disadvantage ? Because it wont fly as far ? Because it may take a fraction of a second to travel the same distance? Sorry but as a guy that`s played plenty of tournament`s and as much woodsball as most people do, that`s not enough to stop me from using it.
I can carry and effectively shoot almost twice as much as a .68 caliber player so range is`nt an offsetting problem to me. More of a concern to my PRACTICAL range is the overhanging canopy of tree branches or other limiting factors you encounter in the woods, man made or otherwise. If the main argument against .50 cal is of distance then we need to really be talking about practical or effective distance, since few if any of us don`t have other factors that will lessen the distance we can shoot.
I guess if we we`re dueling at 100` in an open field i`d bust out my `Cocker and let it rip, but the truth is plenty of people play in and out of buildings, dense woods or hills and gully`s, etc. so their shooting distance is naturally limited and near double the fire power will come more into play.
Not looking to battle here, just my opinion, so please let me know where you feel i`m wrong in my thoughts if you`d like.
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Old 12-24-2010, 12:53 PM #21
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As an experienced player I can hop into most games with just a sling shot and have a good time. It's harder on new players.

When I was reffing we had one newer player try to make the .43 cal RAP4 guns work. He was playing against mostly rental model 98's and other assorted .68 cal blowbacks (quite a few walmart models in fact). Shot about the same number of shots as the other players, we even let him go full auto, but he never managed to shot someone with the darn thing. Even in the dense woods a new player tends to shoot as soon as the other player is visible, and at that range the extra momentum of the larger ball was too much of an advantage. Plus he had trouble seeing the balls in flight. He didn't realize that most of his shots were landing in the dirt.
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