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Old 11-20-2001, 11:23 PM #1
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I will be adding to this post with posts that strike me as useful, and something that people can use to clean a 14way or setup a snap ring.

If you feel you have something useful to post in this thread, feel free to post it and if it is good it will stay, if it is not it will be deleted.

Please do not ask questions in this thread as I do not want it to get cluttered.

Thanks,
timebomb

(Had to edit this thread, as the date on my post was later than Syntax's so it was at the bottom instead of on top.)


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14way cleaning:
While its not a difficult thing to do it isnt all that easy either.
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Old 11-20-2001, 11:24 PM #2
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The WDP tools make it easier:
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Old 11-20-2001, 11:26 PM #3
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It can be done without them but at slightly greater peril:
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Old 11-20-2001, 11:33 PM #4
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The best advice is pay attention! Remember which side is which and put it back together right the first time.

As a side note; I typically take off the 45frame and disconnect the whole assembly. I find it makes the whole process go a bit smoother.

When it comes to lube use white lithium grease applying it generously and then wipe it off. A clean Q-tip can be used to swab the inside.

Finally, dont force it! make sure the vale is seated back on the marker before you try to secure it in place (it will be pretty obvious if its not seated properly).

hope it helps,
-Syn
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Old 11-21-2001, 08:57 PM #5
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Lightbulb Snap Ring

Since I have the camera and Angel handy...
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Old 11-21-2001, 09:01 PM #6
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As an aside; this is one of thoose things that is easy to do
but somewhat difficult to do well.
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Old 11-25-2001, 08:09 PM #7
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Not too shabby Syntax.

One thing to keep in mind that WDPs recomendations for setting the snap ring is quite in-accurate and you wont get the most effecient setting that way. It's quite tough to adjust it just right unless you're used to it(we do it by the feel of the back of the ram rod pushing into the snap ring O-ring)

I'll gather some things and post a bit later.
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Old 11-28-2001, 04:17 PM #8
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perhaps an explanation of what these processes actually do for performance and how often you should do them is in order.
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Old 12-03-2001, 12:31 AM #9
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Intelli Feed install follows.

This is by far the easiest "performance" mod you can do at home.
You need abit of stuff so heres a list:

.both ends of the intelli feed cable
.sight rail
.soldering iron
.a damp rag to clean the iron with
.rosin core solder
.needle nose pliers
.assorted size screw drivers (big and tiny)
.allen wrenches
.about 30min. to an hour

I'm not sure if its typical, but the cable i got had quite a bit of flash round the plastic parts...
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Old 12-03-2001, 12:34 AM #10
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open up the marker and remove the old sight rail, the 45 frame,
and the backplate (see above if you need pictures)

then install the intelli feed wire on your new rail...
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Old 12-03-2001, 12:40 AM #11
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Once you get it on thread the wire out the back of the marker and install the new rail.
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Old 12-03-2001, 12:51 AM #12
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Then thread it through the body and hook it up...
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Old 12-03-2001, 12:52 AM #13
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The messy step:
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Old 12-03-2001, 12:54 AM #14
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And Fade to Black...
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Old 12-03-2001, 12:55 AM #15
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Fin.

edit: in retrospect this should have been a bit further up... For a ggod fit make a small hole and thread the small end of the cable through before you connect it to the servo.
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Old 12-03-2001, 12:58 AM #16
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Speaking of performance mods...

this will make your angel shoot faster, further, straighter, and with less recoil.
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Old 12-06-2001, 02:55 AM #17
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Posted by Mike Zamarocy

Angel Bot Test Today
Ok, this was a quick preliminary test I was able to make today. I hope this cut & paste comes out ok. I shot 10 shots of XS Sports #1 balls, which though the last time I used a hopper of them they shot great, this time they were not as good. But I used the same balls from the same batch in every shot. I did a barrel test with a number of the balls, and not one fell right through, they fit fine, and was able to blow them out of the barrel. Same with the .689 Check-It Dragon 2 piece barrel I used for the accuracy test after the FPS test.

The temp was around 65, I used the stock Infinity 2001 LCD barrel (as most have that as opposed to various other brands) with my MacDev Gladiator reg adjusted to get the stock bolt to as near a constant 285 (field limit) as possible.

WDP - stock Angel Venturi
GTC - GT Cyclone
ST - Shocktech
LT - AKA Lightning
BB - Bonebrake
CO - Cobra
DZV - DeZign Venturi
DZOF - DeZign Open Face

FPS Sorted by shot order

WDP GTC ST LT BB CO DZV DZOF
285 276 293 294 278 301 296 298
283 279 286 293 276 300 299 298
291 281 282 289 287 289 295 295
266 285 290 293 295 285 298 299
283 278 290 298 290 297 289 299
287 279 274 298 295 285 286 293
285 274 293 291 287 296 289 295
276 286 279 292 287 298 298 298
279 278 288 293 292 291 294 294
287 277 286 282 297 299 293 284

FPS sorted by consistency

WDP GTC ST LT BB CO DZV DZOF
291 286 293 298 297 301 299 299
287 285 293 298 295 300 298 299
287 281 290 294 295 299 298 298
285 279 290 293 292 298 296 298
285 279 288 293 290 297 295 298
283 278 286 293 287 296 294 295
283 278 286 292 287 291 293 295
279 277 282 291 287 289 289 294
276 276 279 289 278 285 289 293
266 274 274 282 276 285 286 284

Average FPS

WDP GTC ST LT BB CO DZV DZOF
282 279 286 292 288 294 293 295

As you can see, under sort by shots (recorded as I took each shot), both DeZign bolts right off the bat were very consistent. And under sort by consistency, both DeZign and the Cobra bolts had the closest FPS. As for individual FPS gains, the Cobra was the highest, though not by much, with DeZign, Bonebrake, and the Lighting being very close to it. Nowhere near the exaggerated claims I have seen in other post of over 25 FPS gains over the stock bolt! But still some gain. But the averages make the DeZign Open Face the BEST of the crowd.

Now, as it was getting late (and dark), I had two tourney players who use modified Angels as their normal guns test out the bolts in a "BLIND" taste (accuracy) test. In other words, I did not tell them what bolts I put in the gun, in no particular order, and handed it over to them to test out at the shooting range. They shot at targets in different ranges. We used the Check-It 14" Dragon 2 piece barrel, as it was tried and agreed upon (using the stock bolt) that it was a much better barrel than the stock Infinity. This was not done on a bench, nor was I able to measure groupings. But it was used in sort of a real world "seat of the pants" target shooting - so might apply better than just a sterile setup. The order was kinda surprising of choice - from best to worse:

DeZign Open Face
DeZign Venturi
Lightning
Cobra
GT Cyclone (was commented that it really was not to bad at all!)
Bonebrake (was commented that it seemed to curve the ball DOWN!!)
Stock Bolt
Shocktech (surprising it was LAST!)

Now, some comments on the bolts in relation to fit & finish, as well as wear after use:

Both DeZign and Bonebrake bolts are made of ERTAlyte. Both DeZign bolts showed NO wear at all! Not even where it went up against the ball detent. But Dez has machined in a nice sloped edge on his bolt that he said was to help the passing over the detent as smooth as possible, and I think it worked. The Bonebrake showed just a few tiny marks on its side. The Cobra showed a few scratches as well, but not bad. The GT, Shocktech, and stock bolt showed a bit more wear scratches, but still acceptable. But the Lightning seems to have had its face end pretty scrubbed - might not be too good there, though it does pass the slide tapping in the bore test with no friction to be felt.

As for the feed holes, Cobra has the closest to a circle and smallest sized, GT a bit larger, Shocktech still a circle but larger yet. Lightning comes next with a slight oblong (cause of its famous "ramp" to curve the air), with the Bonebrake elongated a bit more, and the DeZign bolts the longest oblong hole.

As for the face holes, Cobra is the smallest, then GT Cyclone a bit more (but reason is what is inside, more later). The Lightning opens it up quite a bit but with a indent for the ball to lay against, as does the next larger DeZign Open Face. But the Bonebrake has the largest opening. The Shocktech has 3 Venturi holes, and the DeZign Venturi has 10 small outer ring holes and a bit larger middle hole.

The interior of some of these bolts are quite interesting. The Lightning has the cut ramp in it, which many know is its best LP feature in the AutoCocker bolt design. The Shocktech has a metal insert that has a bit of a ramp, but as its recessed towards the back a bit, doubt it does anything. The GT Cyclone is a weird one. It has a large piece of metal inside it that blocks a lot of the inlet hole, and forces the air around it, and then through the twisted venturi path that is at the end of this piece of metal. Supposedly this gives a "cyclone" effect to the air behind the ball. The 2 DeZign bolts have a ramped black plastic (might be ERTAlyte) ramp in them, similar to the Shocktech (also used to hold the ADJUSTABLE pin - yes, you CAN adjust it for the perfect hammer fit!), but much better as its placed where it can effect the air, but also angled much better to really direct the flow of air too. The Bonebrake and Cobra just have a 90 degree cut in them.

Lastly, the actual quality of the machining of the product. The outside of the Lightning seems well made (but- remember the bad amount of wear on it!), but the inside of it seems like it was very poorly cut! Lots of rough surface! The Shocktech, as usual, has a lots of flash inside it where the venturi holes were cut. This could cause some turbulence perhaps? But not quality workmanship if you ask me! The Cobra, Bonebrake, GT Cyclone, and both DeZign bolts all had excellent workmanship on them! Very well made. But the star once again seems to go to the DeZign bolts for those extra "little" touches put into them. The chamfered edges (for the detent), the adjustable pin, the machining, and even a slight "cut" between the lip and just before the feed hole. Not to slight the Bonebrake or Cobra, but the DeZign bolts just show a bit "more".

Oh, I did try the WDP "Custom" bolt for a day - and returned it the next. It was WORSE than the stock bolt! And at NPS I had the guy there try the KAPP Diamond bolt - the darn pin BROKE OFF inside his gun! If you take a look at these, there are already stress cracks where the pin is in the body. These are not Delrin or ERTAlyte bolts, but some sort of polymer.

So, in conclusion, it seems that the DeZign bolts, though not as LP as the Cobra, was more consistent with its FPS per shot, and in the "blind" taste test, was the most liked. The Open Face the top, with his Venturi a close second.

Hope this helps you folks . . . .
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Old 12-31-2001, 01:01 PM #18
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I made a .doc version for all the people who want to print this out and use as a manual. Thanx to syntax!

Click here
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Old 01-21-2002, 12:46 PM #19
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Getting rid of side to side trigger slop

I was having a lot of problems with the side to side slop with my Angel, and it was preventing me from getting that super short crisp trigger pull Angels are famous for. I didn't want to do anything drastic, or take any chances that I might void my warrenty, and this is what I came up with.

First remove the trigger pin and trigger.

Next, get some good old normal clear tape.

Rip off 4 slices, about 2cm long (so you get the normal width of the tape, but only rip off a small piece). I put 2 slices (one on top of the first) on the inside of the trigger frame over the trigger pin hole. The tape was long enough to go from the top of the frame to the bottom where the trigger comes out. I then did the same thing on the otherside, and used a razor to cut off the excess.

Lastly, Put your trigger back together and set the trigger adjustment screws to way you like them.

4 pieces of tape worked for me, but you may find that you need more or less depending on how much slop you have in your trigger. This got rid of about 90% of the slop I had, and I still have that very crisp pull all without voding my warrenty!
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Old 02-07-2002, 10:08 PM #20
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to those of you who have problems with your FREE FLOW MOD.

I understand from reading your posts that many of you are not likeing the freeflow mod. I see posts saying that attaining velocity is hard as well as the suffering from the low first shot.

Here is what I believe the benifits of the free flow mod are:
1) A more reliable LPR. The rock's seat is more durable than the stock angel's LPR, and is less prone to creep.
2) A more stable LPR. The rock's pressure ratio is much higher than the stock angel's LPR and will result in more consistant shots. (For those of you who dont' know what ratio is, it basically means for X amount of input change, Y amount of output will change. I.E. 30 to 1 ratio means that if the input into the reg changes 30 psi, then the output will change 1 psi.
3) A higher flowing LPR. The benefits of this are hard to judge. The angel's flash tank plate is so flow restrictive, its hard to tell what the true bottleneck is.
4) A TRUE low pressure chamber for the angel.

Notice that I did not say anything about less chops. Nor did i say anything about stopping on balls.

Here is what I have deduced by my personal experience with the freeflow mod. The free flow mod works best at stock pressure settings, i.e. 85 psi. You guys are probally thinking i'm an idiot. "Well, its supposed to lower the cocking pressure, blah blah blah."

True, it can lower the cocking pressure, but when you lower the angel's cocking pressure, it results in some problems.
1) Low velocity. Unless you hit the valve open with a certain amount of force, it will be hard to get decent velocity.
2) Low first shot. When you are pushing the ram with less amount of air pressure, it may work, but not as reliabily as with a higher pressure. I believe that when you let your gun sit, the ram tends to "stick". This extra friction resulting from allowing the gun to sit is easily overcome by the 85 psi of the stock gun, but at lower pressures, it will result in a low first shot. Matrix owners will know exactly what i am talking about, thats why they must keep their bolts sooo lubed.
3) Horrible performance after a break. When you have paint/debris on the bolt after gettin a break for some horrible reason, there will be more friction on the bolt. This will cause the bolt to move slower. With the free flow mod operating at lower cocking pressures, it becomes too hard for the gun to overcome the extra friction resulting in the bolt stuttering, or in low velocity. This can be compared to a spyder with a lot of debris in the bolt tube. The hammer/bolt assembly will move slower, therefore resulting in lower velocities.

So, in my opinion, run your freeflow mods at 85 psi. You will have the benefit of a gun that is more reliable than trying to "push the envelope" with a really low cocking pressure. You WILL get lower operating pressure due to the incredible amount of volume available to the gun's valve due to the removal of the LPR. I noticed that lowering the gun's operating pressure drastically reduced kick, and i found that my gun shot +/-1 consistantly.

While the freeflow mod does not reliably do what it sets out to, i believe that it is a very worthwhile mod if you set it up properly.

Any more questions or hypothesis, please post back, i'm interested in what you guys think of what i have to say.
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Old 03-05-2002, 03:38 PM #21
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here's a question

the moderator said no question, but the post said questions allowed, whatever, if this gets erased, oh well
anyway, about the free-flow mod. does that mean 85 psi is what the angel reg puts through into the gun, and where can i get the free-flow mod
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