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Old 11-14-2003, 06:12 PM #1
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EBlade / WorrBlade battery problems? Read this...

Well my father (who is big into electronics) looked at my Worrblade last night with me. I had been talking to him about various batteries (Alkalines vs Rechargables) and asked him if he had any idea on what could cause my EBlade to just chew through batteries. As it was, I could put in a fresh Alkaline and when I was down to about 2 bars, the marker wouldn't fire any more. This basically meant I was getting around 1,000-1,500 shots per battery... which is horrible. So, we took a look at it and he told me a few interesting things...

I had mentioned that I wanted to take the sear off to polish the back of it, but was unable to get the sear pin out even after removing the locking screw at the top of the grip frame. We managed to grab a small hammer and used the appropriate tool to tap the sear pin out. I had noticed that when I tightened down the the sear pin retaining screw just until it grabbed the pin, the sear was incredibly stiff. It was actually so stiff that if I manually lowered the sear (the side with the spring), that the other side was unable to lower itself. This should never have happened...at all. That retaining screw is there to prevent the sear pin from just falling out, not to stop it from spinning. This meant that the sear was grabbing the pin, instead of spinning freely.

Since the pin was hard to remove, we figured it was the pin that was just a *tad* too big... so we mounted the pin on my dremel and took a little bit of 400 grit sandpaper to it to sand it very slightly. Although it slid into the frame with no problem now, it still didn't want to fit the sear. It turns out the pin wasn't the problem... the sear was. We could put the pin into the sear about 7/8th's of the way in... but if the pin was removed and tried to put it in on the other side of the sear, it wouldn't fit at all. The hole in th sear wasn't drilled properly and was binding against the pin. So... we took a small grinding bit and drilled out the edge of the hole on each side of the sear and now the sear spins freely on the pin.

Now... how does this affect the EBlade/WorrBlade and battery life? Well, I'm not sure if anyone has read one of my small rants on Alkalines, but Alkalines generally put out less voltage as their life drops. Less voltage to the solenoid means less force pushing on the sear. Less force combined with the fact that the sear was stiff in the first place means that when the battery was down to about 50% life, there wasn't enough force to even drop the sear. By "lightening" the force required to drop the sear, I believe (although haven't tested) that I should be able to lower my SON down from 3 to 2, or stay at 3 a bit longer. I plan on picking up a tube of white lithium grease at Home Depot and putting a small amount on the pin in hopes that it'll make it spin just *that* much more freely.

He also mentioned the amount of money to make the Worrblade electronics (PCB, chips and solenoid) is just a sickly low amount... go figure. Of course, you're also paying for the grip frame and programming on the chip... but damn...

Also, I'm not sure if it's had an effect much.. but I cleaned out the washer on the cocking solenoid and tried to make sure the solenoid kick was correct, but AFAIK, I've left my battery (Duracell Ultra) in the grip frame since 3am this morning and it was still fine and at the same battery power when I checked it at noon.

I've also contacted Planet Eclipse and found out another thing or two, but I'm waiting on his permission before I quote him.
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Old 11-15-2003, 10:38 AM #2
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34 views and no comments?
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Old 11-15-2003, 11:47 AM #3
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Interesting... I also think there is a a difference between e-blades, some only get about 1500 shots from it while others can get much more...

The problem indeed seems to be the sear, I can play 2 days on my battery before it reaches 50%, that's about 5000 shots. However, I recently found out the previous owner of my Orr-acle has once returned the e-blade to Eclipse to have the sear adjusted....

I don't know why my e-blade had it's sear adjusted... All I know is Eclipse has done something with my sear and the fact I can get over 5000 shots from a battery before it reaches 50% tell me the sear has been adjusted to extend battery life....
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Old 11-15-2003, 01:36 PM #4
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Question warranty

will this void the warranty?

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Old 11-15-2003, 10:08 PM #5
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Don't know why it would... it should have been done in the first place. Either way, you're taking off a few thousandths ... the most you'll even see is that the edge will be *slightly* brighter than the metal around it, no big deal. If it takes you more than 30 seconds of grinding for both sides combined you're probably doing something wrong or taking off too much.
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Old 11-15-2003, 11:53 PM #6
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more on the subject of batteries themself(since your dad is into electronics), what is the maximum voltage you can put into eblades?

An acquaintance uses tysonic 9.2 200mah batteries(i also have them), but he fried his board using these. Another person says you can use anything under 10 volts without any problems occuring, but how else would my friend blow out his board? any suggestions? thanks
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Old 11-16-2003, 12:23 AM #7
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I've asked my father this several times and I'm sure "the electrician" will disagree with me, but I'm obviously going to be biased to what my father says. From what my father tells me, there's a 10v 2200mf capacitor on the board (it's huge, you can't miss it) and although it's rated at 10v it's not going to blow right when it hits 10v. At least not if it's a good capacitor. Many electronics have capacitors that are running higher than the specs they're rated for without problems. After long extended periods of time of running at that voltage, can there be problems? Sure, of course there can. But if say... a DVD player runs for several hours consistantly and there's no problems, I highly doubt the short amount of time that the capacitor in the grip is "under strain" that it will fail.

Personally, I fully plan on getting either tysonics or powerex (9.6 @ 170mah) and running with those. I highly doubt your friends board blew because he was using a tysonic battery, they're a good battery and actually what's being used by Planet Eclipse.
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Old 11-16-2003, 12:58 AM #8
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thanks for the info.
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Old 11-16-2003, 02:00 PM #9
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well when you talk about the sickly low amount of money needed to make the money did you consider any of these things?

-milling machines
-employees
-packaging
-raw aluminum
-shipping
-warehouse space
-time spent on programming
-sponsorships



cuz they all also contribute to the price of the product being produced.

if your dad is a electronics expert than he might be able to help you rig up some other kind of power source for your eblade.
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Old 11-16-2003, 03:18 PM #10
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i agree with you to an extent.
You can buy a Blade hinge frame for $70 dollars. So that means the only other developing came from:
-programming
-electronics
-team sponsorship
-poor battery efficiency


I'm not going to dispute it, because its hands-down the best upgrade you can get for a cocker, but i hope to see a price drop soon.
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Old 11-16-2003, 03:47 PM #11
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Quote:
Originally posted by parisinflames7
well when you talk about the sickly low amount of money needed to make the money did you consider any of these things?

-milling machines
-employees
-packaging
-raw aluminum
-shipping
-warehouse space
-time spent on programming
-sponsorships
No, I didn't consider all of them... because I wasn't talking about all of them. I said excluding the frame, which leaves the solenoid in the grip and the PCB board (of course with all the crap soldered to it). Sooo... when you look at just the cost of the board, you can drop pretty much everything except assembly of the board (time) and programming the chip.
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Old 11-16-2003, 04:25 PM #12
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well the raw matierials atleast, the cost of the board is affected by everything i said before except for milling and raw aluminum.
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Old 11-16-2003, 05:10 PM #13
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no.. I mean the cost I could spend, myself, on making one. ... which eliminates pretty much everything there. In either case, this is all besides the point. I didn't make this thread to talk about how the internals of the EBlade/Worrblade are relatively inexpensive, I made it to talk about battery performance in them.
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If you want to set off and go develop some grand new thing, you don't need millions of dollars of capitalization. You need enough pizza and Diet Coke to stick in your refrigerator, a cheap PC to work on, and the dedication to go through with it. We slept on floors. We waded across rivers. -John Carmack

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Old 11-16-2003, 05:56 PM #14
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hey Falln, got another question for you..

The guy i know who's board is fried from the Tysonics, he said he was usually a junky Energizer charger. He said he has heard of them overcharging, and giving overall poor recharge results. Ever heard of this? I happen to have the same energizer charger he is talking about.
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Old 11-16-2003, 06:38 PM #15
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So what can the rest of us do to help with our battery?
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Old 11-16-2003, 10:24 PM #16
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what are you talking about? He just told you how.

I don't have a dremel, but i tried it with a bit of sandpaper. It seemed to help minimally, but like he said, you need to polish the inside of the sear to get those tiny burrs out of there. Just start by polishing the sear and pin itself with fine grit sandpaper.
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Old 11-16-2003, 10:45 PM #17
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Is the sear set up like the trigger? Tthe trigger has a grub screw that keeps the trigger firmly in place on the trigger pin, but the pin itself is supposed to move in the frame.
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Old 11-16-2003, 11:28 PM #18
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Next time im home with my frame i will also look to do this to mine. Finally people are ballsy enough to mess with their frames. It seemed like people were just content with what they had and/or were afraid to go in there and mess with anything for this whole time (myself included with the and part). Good call Falln.
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Old 11-17-2003, 08:58 AM #19
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Quote:
Originally posted by Drewba13
Ever heard of this? I happen to have the same energizer charger he is talking about.
I've heard of all batteries being overcharged, not just Tysonics. From what I understand, it has more to do with the charger than anything else. Some chargers will just charge the battery for a specific amount of time, then turn off. New "smart" chargers are supposed to use several methods of determining when a battery is full, such as by how much voltage it has, temperature, etc.


Quote:
Originally posted by Drewba13
I don't have a dremel, but i tried it with a bit of sandpaper. It seemed to help minimally, but like he said, you need to polish the inside of the sear to get those tiny burrs out of there.
Not even so much the inside, just the edge of the hole. I'll see if I can get some pics up sometime to help explain what I'm talking about. Before I found out that it was the sear that was mis-shaped and not the sear pin, I took some 400 grit sandpaper to the sear pin. I suppose I *could* go back and really polish it up, but I don't think it's going to make a huge difference... of course, it shouldn't take long either.

Quote:
Originally posted by Kore David
Is the sear set up like the trigger? Tthe trigger has a grub screw that keeps the trigger firmly in place on the trigger pin, but the pin itself is supposed to move in the frame.
Ehh, close but not quite. The grub screw on the trigger is more to (A) keep the pin in place with the trigger and (B) to take out some side to side slack. The trigger pin is designed to spin in the hole in the trigger frame. The sear pin is designed to stay in place in the trigger frame and have something spin around it.
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Old 11-17-2003, 09:37 AM #20
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I would say that you are 100% right and your batts are gonna last way longer. its the same as having a high SON settings, it sucks the batteries down.

I do alot of Eblade/Worrblade installs. Sadly, Ive found that they are NOT a simple bolt on machine gun. About 50% of the ones I get (Brand new of course) have problems with the trigger pin and the sear pin like yours. Ive had them right out of the box so stiff that you pull the trigger and it will not return, Doe's Eclipse check their product before they charge 380.00 for it?

I have found that there is some kind of glue or residue inside, usually a good cleaning and polishing fixes it right up.

So now, I have to basically check everything before I mount the frame. Good find on your part, it should rock now.
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Old 11-17-2003, 10:21 AM #21
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I sure hope it gets better shots per battery now. I still plan on getting rechargables and my SON was still at 3, but perhaps now I can lower it to 2 (not that it'll make that much difference).

The problem is, I'd like to say if it doesn't get more shots per battery or as much as it should, that I would just sell it for an ANS frame. The problem is, I've been planning on getting a halfblock. This makes a problem because I don't want to have both holes drilled on one body. So I'd have to decide before I went to play next season... but I probably won't get to shoot someone else's ANS until next season... so it's a nice catch 22.

In the end, the only real reasons I'd want an ANS is the breakbeam eye (it'd just be nice to have over the reflective, even though I've never had problems with mine) it gets more shots per battery and probably less bounce (which will probably be eliminated by the halfblock anyway). Everything else makes me want a Worrblade so chances are very good that I'm just going to stick with the grip I have.

DFox: Two questions for ya...
1. Do you think it'd actually be worthwhile to take the sear pin back out and sand it up to 2000 grit? I basically just attach the pin to my dremel and just use the sandpaper on it, so it should only take a few minutes.. but if it's probably not even worth it, I won't bother
2. Although it's already pretty smooth, do you think putting any kind of grease/oil on the sear pin would help?

Keep in mind, I'll probably take the sear and lug out anyway to polish them both up using the dremel.
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