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Old 12-08-2010, 09:45 PM #22
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good point. It's easy to get tired of playing a motion based game. Sometimes I just want to sit on my couch, drink, and chill.
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Old 12-08-2010, 09:51 PM #23
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All cars except the Bugatti Veyron suck because they are slower.
thats a pretty retarded analogy that isn't apt at all
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Old 12-08-2010, 09:52 PM #24
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right now its up to the developers to catch up with consoles. They all have about a 5 year lifespan left.
Developers passed the consoles years ago, wtf are you talking about?
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Old 12-08-2010, 10:05 PM #25
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thats a pretty retarded analogy that isn't apt at all
Not really. You're complaining about the graphical processing ability of consoles, but you fail to understand why consoles exist.
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I think he's more pointing out the potential to what games could and should be on consoles, seeing as there are 5 year old PC games that our current gen can't even match in terms of power.

Yeah, power isn't everything, but the ability to not only polish a game for sheer beauty purposes, but also in terms of more advanced AI and more things on screen at once is a huge plus. There's always a limit in the balance towards how well things can look and react at the same time.

Mainly, I want my my hundreds of highly detailed zombies on screen at once, dammit.
The graphics you see on a 360 now are about as good as they are going to get. Crysis 2 will raise the bar a bit. As for the PS3, I'm not too sure how much more powerful it's hardware is. We'll probably see the bar raised when Uncharted 3 is released.


His whole argument is based on the fact that a 200 dollar xbox from 5 years ago isn't as powerful as his $1000 dollar gaming PC. Don't play console games = problem solved.
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Old 12-08-2010, 10:12 PM #26
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Not really. You're complaining about the graphical processing ability of consoles, but you fail to understand why consoles exist.
No I understand perfectly well.

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His whole argument is based on the fact that a 200 dollar xbox from 5 years ago isn't as powerful as his $1000 dollar gaming PC. Don't play console games = problem solved.
ugg, no...just stop before you make yourself look even dumber. My argument is that these consoles are outdated and are holding gaming back.

Really chief, its not that hard to understand.
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Old 12-08-2010, 10:14 PM #27
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No I understand perfectly well.



ugg, no...just stop before you make yourself look even dumber. My argument is that these consoles are outdated and are holding gaming back.

Really chief, its not that hard to understand.
How exactly is it holding gaming back?
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Old 12-08-2010, 10:16 PM #28
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http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Pc-...rli,11714.html

The battlefield series is a perfect example. Use to consist of large maps, 64 player games, etc now its been reduced to small choke point maps with only half the players due to console limitations.
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Old 12-08-2010, 10:28 PM #29
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Crytek starts developing games on consoles because piracy is ****ing rampant and they were losing too much money. Their move to consoles makes Crysis 2 suffer.

Hmm..sounds like piracy is to blame as well, no? Crytek clearly points out that consoles hardware limitations (like I said is the reason you're arguing this in the first place) AND piracy on the PC is holding them back. So, how can you blame consoles and not pirates for holding back Crysis 2 - one game which apparently encompasses the entire industry. More than half that article was about PC piracy, what the **** were you trying to accomplish by posting it?

The way I see it is that if piracy didn't exist on the PC (somehow lol), then Crytek would have had no reason to develop Crysis 2 on the consoles. Thus making Crysis 2 PC exclusive and probably the next step in PC graphics. Sounds like piracy would be to blame here, not consoles...

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Old 12-08-2010, 10:32 PM #30
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Not really. You're complaining about the graphical processing ability of consoles, but you fail to understand why consoles exist.

The graphics you see on a 360 now are about as good as they are going to get. Crysis 2 will raise the bar a bit. As for the PS3, I'm not too sure how much more powerful it's hardware is. We'll probably see the bar raised when Uncharted 3 is released.


His whole argument is based on the fact that a 200 dollar xbox from 5 years ago isn't as powerful as his $1000 dollar gaming PC. Don't play console games = problem solved.
No, you're still not getting it.

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http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Pc-...rli,11714.html

The battlefield series is a perfect example. Use to consist of large maps, 64 player games, etc now its been reduced to small choke point maps with only half the players due to console limitations.


Games can be so much more, and the inability for consoles to adapt to the power requirements of advancing technology is what's holding them back. We're stuck with the same stuff because we can't innovate much further than what the system will allows us to create and build upon. Or at least, certainly not without sacrificing graphical appeal, which honestly does matter to a lot of casual gamers. People like pretty ****, and trying to do more with the same tired systems just doesn't work that well.

We're not talking about JUST visuals here, we're talking about expanse and its effect on lag as well.

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For a developer to bring CoD into fruition on a quasi-kinect device would call for a much different game. If it were to happen, it would be something very casual. I can't see it being anything like the CoD we play today. People just don't want to use motion controls for hours on end. That's why the vast majority of motion controlled games are casual. You won't see an entire generation of consoles exclusively dedicated to kinect like motion controls for at least 2 more gens.
Everything I said went completely over your head. I literally just posted that nobody wants to wag their arms around for hours on end. The average gamer is lazy. Thus, ways to implement subtle, highly tuned motion control into the games in a way that will change how you control them but without exerting so much effort that it turns people off from it.

Once again, the ideal controller being a more refined power-glove of sorts. Nothing can beat the dexterity and precise control of the human hand. Between wrists and individual fingers we have more than enough to find a way to re-invent how we control video games. Certainly in a way that can not only leap the barriers of needing pre-rendered animations in order to do things, but also allow for a new depth in the experience as well.

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Crytek starts developing games on consoles because piracy is ****ing rampant and they were losing too much money. Their move to consoles makes Crysis 2 suffer.

Hmm..sounds like piracy is to blame as well, no? Crytek clearly points out that consoles hardware limitations (like I said is the reason you're arguing this in the first place) AND piracy on the PC is holding them back. So, how can you blame consoles and not pirates for holding back Crysis 2 - one game which apparently encompasses the entire industry. More than half that article was about PC piracy, what the **** were you trying to accomplish by posting it?

The way I see it is that if piracy didn't exist on the PC (somehow lol), then Crytek would have had no reason to develop Crysis 2 on the consoles. Thus making Crysis 2 PC exclusive and probably the next step in PC graphics. Sounds like piracy would be to blame here, not consoles...
You just completely missed the point of that entire argument. God damn.
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Old 12-08-2010, 10:34 PM #31
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Once again, the ideal controller being a more refined power-glove of sorts. Nothing can beat the dexterity and precise control of the human hand. Between wrists and individual fingers we have more than enough to find a way to re-invent how we control video games. Certainly in a way that can not only leap the barriers of needing pre-rendered animations in order to do things, but also allow for a new depth in the experience as well.



You just completely missed the point of that entire argument. God damn.
That sounds ****ing terrible tbh. That also has nothing to do with consoles....If anything consoles are a step toward that direction.

Also, please explain the point of Cryteks argument then. Crytek has had a holy crusade on piracy since Crysis.
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Old 12-08-2010, 10:40 PM #32
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That sounds ****ing terrible tbh. That also has nothing to do with consoles....If anything consoles are a step toward that direction.

Also, please explain the point of Cryteks argument then. Crytek has had a holy crusade on piracy since Crysis.
Um, the power argument and the motion control argument are entirely 2 separate topics. Jesus kid, are you ****ing high? That has everything to do with consoles. Your next sentence negates your own train of thought.

And that doesn't sound any more terrible than uncomfortable dildo-like controllers with inaccurate gyroscopic sensors that require you to wave your arms around like a jackass for **** to register, or a ****ing camera that you have to dance around in front of like a buffoon. But guess what, that **** is selling like god damn hot cakes.

Tactile response controllers can only get you so far, you can only hit so many buttons at a time with your fingers while maintaining the dual-joystick layout we've all become accustomed to. A handheld motion sensing unit that actually reacts to individual finger movement would be no more effort than the bull**** button mashing that goes on today, but with far more accuracy and infinitely higher headroom in terms of how the controls can be integrated.

And the point of the Crytek argument is that if the consoles were capable of handling the things they needed them to do, they wouldn't have to worry about faults amongst the PC community anyways. The trouble is that console gamers are perfectly happy accepting less for more, and forces developers who really want to push the limits of what games can do to develop solely on PC, where they are subject to the piracy that comes with it. They make less profit, and instead have to dumb everything down so they can actually make a buck off of the idiot masses of console owners.

How are you not understanding any of this?
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Old 12-08-2010, 11:14 PM #33
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i like how ayabrae is clueless and condescending

usually you can be only one
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Old 12-08-2010, 11:23 PM #34
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theyre making xbox 570s noob
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Old 12-08-2010, 11:40 PM #35
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Um, the power argument and the motion control argument are entirely 2 separate topics. Jesus kid, are you ****ing high? And that doesn't sound any more terrible than uncomfortable dildo-like controllers with inaccurate gyroscopic sensors that require you to wave your arms around like a jackass for **** to register, or a ****ing camera that you have to dance around in front of like a buffoon. But guess what, that **** is selling like god damn hot cakes.

And the point of the Crytek argument is that if the consoles were capable of handling the things they needed them to do, they wouldn't have to worry about faults amongst the PC community anyways. The trouble is that console gamers are perfectly happy accepting less for more, and forces developers who really want to push the limits of what games can do to develop solely on PC, where they are subject to the piracy that comes with it. They make less profit, and instead have to dumb everything down so they can actually make a buck off of the idiot masses of console owners.

How are you not understanding any of this?
I never said it had anything to do with a power argument. I meant it has nothing to do with consoles holding gaming back, and that in the case of motion controls, consoles are actually progressing. No need for insults either, I don't know what the hell your problem is.

As for the Crytek argument;

You'd be right, except for the fact that consoles have been behind PC's for a LONG time now. PC's have had the best graphics for a while, and developers have continued to put out great games for the PC. Consoles have, and always will be the best selling platform (in terms of consoles vs gaming PC, not just normal PC). Their entire existence is based upon affordability and accessibility. Consoles gamers get more for less, not less for more. Go out and spend 600 dollars on a gaming PC and put it together yourself...Oh, and don't forget to update your drivers - all the while I can play the same exact game on my 360 and it will look just as nice. Like I said, PC has been the more powerful platform for quite a long ****ing time. Crytek's problem is that pirating is so ****ing easy to do on PC's nowadays that they have no choice to develop on consoles. Of course, Crysis is a boring ****ing game and that's why it didn't achieve the sales they wanted, but they fail to recognize this.

I think both our arguments have gotten jumbled up within this thread. I am arguing against the fact that consoles are holding gaming back as a whole. I am not arguing that a PC is more powerful than a console.


Your argument is based on one notion:
1) Advancements in the way games look are the only thing that progresses the industry(which you openly contradict yourself about by talking about motion controls)

If anything, the lack of powerful visuals is HELPING the industry right now. Instead of pumping out a game with killer graphics (ie Crysis), developers must make advancements in gameplay and make the game fun in other ways. Look at Crysis, that game is boring and generic as **** once you get past its graphics. How in any ****ing way is that good for gaming? Look at MAG (which was on console). Again, generic ****ing shooter, but it had 256 players or whatever the **** it had. You guys want these boring ****ing gimmicks like larger players at once, or better visuals. You'd be right that the consoles don't allow games to have the best graphics or biggest stages, but in no way does excluding those gimmicks hurt gaming as a whole. My point is the advancements you guys are speaking of aren't good ones for gaming. It's also funny to note that a game like MAG was first done on a console.


A lot of it also boils down to money. Crysis had awesome graphics, that's about it. That is NOT a good business plan whatsoever. Creating a game like that cost **** tons of money and it won't recoup those costs through sales because of how taxing it is on a PC. Crysis from the get-go was just a bad idea. At the end of the day, developers have a business to protect. They have families and themselves to protect and making a game like Crysis isn't going to bring home the bread and butter. Like I said, it's just a failure from a business standpoint. Now, as a gamer, it's cool to see Crysis look so damn good, but that won't make me buy it and enjoy it - which is the entire point of entertainment; enjoying something. Crytek traded off fun gameplay for graphics with Crysis, and it failed. Gameplay will always be the largest factor in somebodies enjoyment of a game. Allowing developers like Crytek to release visual stunning games with boring game play isn't a positive advancement in the industry. Visually, consoles might hold back PC gaming, but there's also A LOT of other things contributing to the effort, and to put the blame solely on consoles is asinine. In any other aspect besides visuals, consoles aren't playing a part in holding gaming back, and in some cases they are pioneers in advancing gaming.

In closing, if a developer wants to push the limits on visuals then they will develop their game for the PC. However, when they bring the fact that they are a business into the equation things tend to get hazy. For example, Crysis didn't sell well because how difficult it was to run and because it wasn't anything special past it's graphics. This isn't so much a "Our game will make INFINITE money if we make it for consoles" type of thing; it's more of a "We will be losing money if we develop this exclusively for the PC" kind of thing. Another jumbled though, PC gaming changes. A console you buy once and the hardware hardly changes. While, with a PC, I can upgrade as the time goes on. The nature of consoles hinders it from being the pioneer for visuals and scale, while the nature of PC's facilitates itself to be. There is much more advancing that can be done with the industry past visuals, and consoles have never been at the forefront of that. To complain now about them holding gaming back is simply stupid. Graphics aren't the only facet of a great game; Crysis is evidence enough of that. Developers aren't necessarily going to flock to where the money is, but they aren't going to flock to where the money isn't, and right now the money isn't in PC gaming due to MANY factors, one of which being competition with consoles. So, you're wrong; consoles aren't holding gaming back, they're just playing a small part in a complex web that is holding the visuals and scale of a game back.
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Old 12-09-2010, 12:10 AM #36
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I never said it had anything to do with a power argument. I meant it has nothing to do with consoles holding gaming back, and that in the case of motion controls, consoles are actually progressing. No need for insults either, I don't know what the hell your problem is.

As for the Crytek argument;

You'd be right, except for the fact that consoles have been behind PC's for a LONG time now. PC's have had the best graphics for a while, and developers have continued to put out great games for the PC. Consoles have, and always will be the best selling platform (in terms of consoles vs gaming PC, not just normal PC). Their entire existence is based upon affordability and accessibility. Consoles gamers get more for less, not less for more. Go out and spend 600 dollars on a gaming PC and put it together yourself...Oh, and don't forget to update your drivers - all the while I can play the same exact game on my 360 and it will look just as nice. Like I said, PC has been the more powerful platform for quite a long ****ing time. Crytek's problem is that pirating is so ****ing easy to do on PC's nowadays that they have no choice to develop on consoles. Of course, Crysis is a boring ****ing game and that's why it didn't achieve the sales they wanted, but they fail to recognize this.
Of course PC's are more powerful. The argument is that the PC community is dwindling and the games are becoming poorer because the based game is geared towards consoles, not PC's. Yes, piracy is playing a large part in this, as is money, but consoles are marketing off of this and instead of putting a console that is a fair compensation towards PC gamers who are used to a very powerful rig capable of handling games nearly a decade ahead of consoles abilities, console makers are still crafting machines with mediocre parts and performance leading to the games becoming dated faster and far less reliable units, for the sake of money and not for the advancement of the industry.

PC gaming has always been about the advancement of gaming as a whole, making things more powerful and more advanced and paving the way for later consoles. Take that away, and you start to depreciate the gaming community as a whole.

Quote:
I think both our arguments have gotten jumbled up within this thread. I am arguing against the fact that consoles are holding gaming back as a whole. I am not arguing that a PC is more powerful than a console.


Your argument is based on one notion:
1) Advancements in the way games look are the only thing that progresses the industry(which you openly contradict yourself about by talking about motion controls)
No, I was saying that the average gamers cares about visuals. I'm talking about raw computing power, not just how pretty a game can look. You think you can just build an infinitely expansive game with just any old engine? Players want more out of their games. They want more depth, and not just story wise. There is a limit to just how expansive or complex you can make a game with aging computing power. It takes stronger equipment to make stronger games, ones that relate more to reality and are capable of more emotional response. The further a console progresses, the less impressed people become with its interpretation of reality.

Quote:
If anything, the lack of powerful visuals is HELPING the industry right now. Instead of pumping out a game with killer graphics (ie Crysis), developers must make advancements in gameplay and make the game fun in other ways. Look at Crysis, that game is boring and generic as **** once you get past its graphics. How in any ****ing way is that good for gaming? Look at MAG (which was on console). Again, generic ****ing shooter, but it had 256 players or whatever the **** it had. You guys want these boring ****ing gimmicks like larger players at once, or better visuals. You'd be right that the consoles don't allow games to have the best graphics or biggest stages, but in no way does excluding those gimmicks hurt gaming as a whole. My point is the advancements you guys are speaking of aren't good ones for gaming. It's also funny to note that a game like MAG was first done on a console.
Why do you keep using Crysis as an example? Neither of us have held that as a shining ****ing achievement in the gaming community. We merely pointed out that it's a 5 ****ing year old game that, guess what, our beloved xbox's and PS3's still are not capable of playing.

We KNOW it's not just about visuals. Jesus ****. You're not paying attention. And MAG sucked for many reasons, why you brought that up is of no importance. Which, for the record, I've been playing shooters with well over 64 players in a server for years. Tribes 2 came out in the god damn 90's and can be handled by modern consoles easily. MAG was a sorry excuse of a game because it was poorly made.

However, it is fact that a more powerful system is going to eliminate more lag, and allow things to run smoother online and allow more players per game. It's not just about connection, it's about computing power as well.

Quote:
Crysis crysis crysis crysis
Dude shut the **** up about crysis already. You're not making any valid points with it and you're just showing how clueless you are.

Quote:
In closing, if a developer wants to push the limits on visuals then they will develop their game for the PC. However, when they bring the fact that they are a business into the equation things tend to get hazy. For example, Crysis didn't sell well because how difficult it was to run and because it wasn't anything special past it's graphics. This isn't so much a "Our game will make INFINITE money if we make it for consoles" type of thing; it's more of a "We will be losing money if we develop this exclusively for the PC" kind of thing. Another jumbled though, PC gaming changes. A console you buy once and the hardware hardly changes. While, with a PC, I can upgrade as the time goes on. The nature of consoles hinders it from being the pioneer for visuals and scale, while the nature of PC's facilitates itself to be. There is much more advancing that can be done with the industry past visuals, and consoles have never been at the forefront of that. To complain now about them holding gaming back is simply stupid. Graphics aren't the only facet of a great game; Crysis is evidence enough of that. Developers aren't necessarily going to flock to where the money is, but they aren't going to flock to where the money isn't, and right now the money isn't in PC gaming due to MANY factors, one of which being competition with consoles. So, you're wrong; consoles aren't holding gaming back, they're just playing a small part in a complex web that is holding the visuals and scale of a game back.
I'd like to point out, that since it took you till the end of this page to STILL NOT FIGURE THE **** OUT, that you cannot read and are a complete moron. We're not talking about consoles as a whole holding back gaming. We're talking about the current consoles holding things back. You said it yourself, Crysis 2 is going to max out the xbox. What the **** is after that? We're supposed to just accept that games aren't going to get anymore powerful for another 5 ****ing years?

Technology is advancing faster than the current consoles can keep up with.
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Old 12-09-2010, 12:16 AM #37
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I stopped reading when you said PC's are nearly a decade ahead of consoles. You are truly an idiot who is absolutely clueless as to what you are talking about. Enjoy your powerglove and ****ty games based on good graphics while I enjoy my fun games with moderate graphics.

*EDIT* Oh, and Crysis isn't 5 years old you twat. Again, you have no idea what you're even talking about but you continue to attack me.
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Old 12-09-2010, 12:17 AM #38
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I don't care about graphics right now. I care about new, innovative story lines and better multiplayer. It's the same old **** over and over again atm.
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Old 12-09-2010, 12:20 AM #39
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Hey, why dont we all just get mad in here
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Old 12-09-2010, 12:23 AM #40
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I don't care about graphics right now. I care about new, innovative story lines and better multiplayer. It's the same old **** over and over again atm.
Exactly how I feel. But, apparently, console games are hindering that in someway.
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Hey, why dont we all just get mad in here
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Old 12-09-2010, 12:24 AM #41
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I stopped reading when you said PC's are nearly a decade ahead of consoles. You are truly an idiot who is absolutely clueless as to what you are talking about. Enjoy your powerglove and ****ty games based on good graphics while I enjoy my fun games with moderate graphics.

*EDIT* Oh, and Crysis isn't 5 years old you twat. Again, you have no idea what you're even talking about but you continue to attack me.
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Old 12-09-2010, 12:26 AM #42
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Originally Posted by komodo_117 View Post
HO LORDAY, IT'S ONLY FOUR YEARS OLD, MY BAD MASSA! I'M SO SORRY MASSA! PLEASE DON'T BEAT ME MASSA!!

Go get hit by a truck.
Wrong try again.

Seriously, how ****ing stupid are you? Google the god damned release date if you have to. The game released in 07.
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