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Old 12-03-2010, 09:14 AM #1
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Who is really "sponsored"?

I was chatting with someone yesterday about the standard pre-season fare of teams holding try outs (or new teams forming) and how many of them throw out the "and maybe 1 or 2 PSP/NPPL events" after describing how they are an NEXL/NEPL/NYPL/USPA/ERFOA/Other team (and how many actually believe that line, too) and how many talk about 'sponsorship'.

"We are sponsored by Planet Eclipse". Well, really we buy gear and we happen to buy Planet gear because we get a discount. Or maybe we don't really get a discount, but they sell it to us at wholesale. Or maybe not even that, but we want to look coordinated. Or....

And so the person I was talking to asked me how many teams I thought were "really" sponsored.

So I thought I'd make a thread of it (because things have been slow in here).

Who in the north east is sponsored? And, I suppose, what does "sponsorship" really mean?

My guess: 187, Hartford Eclipse, Hurricanes, Identity & Team No Name.
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Old 12-03-2010, 09:35 AM #2
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I think before you can ask who is sponsored you need to answer your other question - what does "Sponsorship" mean?

Does it mean I get free entry to play in exchange for reffing a few days a month?

Does it mean I get free entry to play in exchange for putting your logo on my jersey?

Does it mean I get free entry to play and I don't offer any concrete return on your investment in my team? But I'll hold your sign/poster in all our podium pictures? Maybe get our picture in a magazine with your logos on our jerseys?

You can substitute anything you want for "Free Entry" - maybe it's Free Paint, Free Gear, etc...
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Old 12-03-2010, 09:58 AM #3
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Let's say that "sponsorship" is some value provided to a team, that can be translated into a dollar value, where the dollar value that is provided to the team is greater than the dollar value of labor or product that provided in exchange for it.

Therefore, free entry, paint, gear or field use would all be considered, as they can be translated into a dollar value but "moral support" would not be for, while it has value, it isn't monetary value.

Therefore, a reffing contract is not sponsorship unless the pay is disproportionate to the amount of labor provided. This is somewhat subjective, but we can agree that if I provide 100 days of labor and you provide $7500 ($75/day) to $10,000 ($100/day) it is more or less comparable, but if you provide $20,000 ($200/day) it is more than market value and therefore there is some ‘sponsorship’ there.

Therefore, dollar values provided for "promotional activities" are sponsorship, as "promotional activities" would not fall under the rubric of "labor or products provided in exchange for it". This, of course, gets sticky if the "promotional activities" include coming to your physical location and signing autographs. But, again, if the value provided to the team is greater than the value of the labor, it is 'sponsorship'.

And since by this definition if a manufacturer provided a $0.50 discount on gear, it would be sponsorship, let us try to set some parameters on total value. Thoughts on that?
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Old 12-03-2010, 11:30 AM #4
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Having a work agreement is very benifitial to people who already have jobs. It saves you money over the season and its under the radar so your not pushing up your taxable income.

Perhaps sponsorship isnt the right term for what most people get but its certainly support.
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Old 12-03-2010, 12:11 PM #5
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I like to call that a "Trade of Goods for Services". However, it's not sponsorship if the value of the goods and services traded is roughly the same amount.

As Jeff pointed out - true sponsorship is getting something that is more value then you're giving.

The really tough question is how do you treat gear at Wholesale pricing from the manufacture? I know they're still making money, but it's of more value to you the player then what you're giving up.

I tend to look at sponsorship as getting something for nothing but potential marketing return - meaning possibility of being on the podium with their banner, picture in a magazine with their logo, etc...

Most everything else is some sort of creative method for generating sales.
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Old 12-03-2010, 12:24 PM #6
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So, "sponsorship" is defined as the trade of goods for promotional services where the raison d'être of the arrangement is to provide marketing value and not directly attributable sales.

I'm good with that.
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Old 12-03-2010, 12:48 PM #7
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Why didnt you just type..."reason for existence"...You make me google to much...

Does anybody ever really just get a check for a logo? Back in 2002 did the Canes just get a check for being awesome? Or were you expected to yield a return.
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Old 12-03-2010, 12:54 PM #8
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In 2002, when we were a D2 10-man team, we had no sponsorship.

Yes, teams have in the past, and I assume to this day, received goods, services or other considerations for promotional considerations (which extend beyond a logo on a jersey).
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Old 12-03-2010, 01:12 PM #9
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Sorry went a little too far back was just throwing a number out there.

I guess my point is that even at the top is there really somthing for nothing. When recieving somthing there would be no talk or instuctions on the conditions of recieving the product. An example would be getting some paint and then telling everybody how great it is and in turn telling them where to get it. There is a goods and some work tied to it.

Just the value ratio is much better than some D4 team would get with their local field.
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Old 12-03-2010, 01:13 PM #10
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Yes I agree with what is being said.

to add my thoughts, A ref contract is basically work. like any other job.... You put in the labor you get paid.

Sponsorship to me is getting something in value that for exchange for promotional obligations and or support for the involved company like any other real sponsorships. In addition, sponsorships are to make a teams overall season easier to deal with.

Free markers, gear, products, field fees, below cost and/or free paint, monetary contributions, etc. these are all examples of true sponsorships

Getting gear or paint at wholesale... as I do consider it as low level sponsorship or a support deal, I really wouldn't call it a true sponsorship. The sponsorship to support line is that point when you receive something at suppliers cost or better.

Also, purchase obligations I do not consider being sponsored. You see people say "we are sponsored by "xyz" and we will be shooting "abc"... But if the player is obligated to purchase the product, even at a lower cost, it is not sponsorship. to me is is a support level retail outlet for the company. I just think it is an avenue for companies to get their products out to the tournament players easier. I don't blame them and I would do the same if I was them.

In all honesty, there really is not many sponsored teams at all under the true meaning. This is mainly due to smarter business practices within the industry and a poor economy. As a team owner like the many that are out there, we have to become more creative in order to make tournament paintball more affordable. Ref contracts, trade of labor, etc.... They are all good avenues to take and we all have to do what we have to do. But it is different than real sponsorship.

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Old 12-03-2010, 02:34 PM #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Stein View Post
In 2002, when we were a D2 10-man team, we had no sponsorship.

Yes, teams have in the past, and I assume to this day, received goods, services or other considerations for promotional considerations (which extend beyond a logo on a jersey).
To get any true sponsorship you have to without a doubt do a little more than the logo on the jersey.
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Old 12-03-2010, 02:39 PM #12
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There have been logos on pro jerseys in the past, with a $10-15K payout, that was nothing more than the logo on the jersey.

Mostly from online stores.
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Old 12-03-2010, 02:46 PM #13
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Quote:
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There have been logos on pro jerseys in the past, with a $10-15K payout, that was nothing more than the logo on the jersey.

Mostly from online stores.
yes, the good ole fat & happy days... Long gone now..
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Old 12-03-2010, 02:58 PM #14
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Thats incredible

With the minimal exposure that Pro teams have $10-15 is a hell of a figure.

I wonder if it every actually paid off.
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Old 12-03-2010, 03:01 PM #15
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How do you measure it? You really can't.
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Old 12-03-2010, 03:06 PM #16
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The person throwing out the 10 g could tell you if they got an extra 10 g in sales lol.
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Old 12-03-2010, 03:18 PM #17
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Quote:
Originally Posted by J. Stein View Post
There have been logos on pro jerseys in the past, with a $10-15K payout, that was nothing more than the logo on the jersey.

Mostly from online stores.
thats wild. if i was that online store/company etc, i would only consider throwing that much money to teams that either a; have a high chance of victory/podium finishes (russians) or b; have high media exposure (canes, LIFT).
and i'd go with seekeys method, see if sales increase after throwing out that kind of advertising on pro players/teams for a season or so.
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Old 12-03-2010, 03:42 PM #18
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but was there ever a time when they did not sponsor a team? they would have to compaire sales figures with no sponsored teams and then the next year with a sponsored teams. and then maybe the figure is bigger simply because the company is now bigger or because they expanded internationally or something. its almost impossible to gage even with sales figures.
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Old 12-03-2010, 03:53 PM #19
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Quote:
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Also, purchase obligations I do not consider being sponsored. You see people say "we are sponsored by "xyz" and we will be shooting "abc"... But if the player is obligated to purchase the product, even at a lower cost, it is not sponsorship. to me is is a support level retail outlet for the company. I just think it is an avenue for companies to get their products out to the tournament players easier. I don't blame them and I would do the same if I was them.
so your saying if a team has to pay money for a product such as a marker, even if it is below normal selling price, it is NOT a sponsorship?
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Old 12-03-2010, 03:55 PM #20
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Quote:
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Thats incredible

With the minimal exposure that Pro teams have $10-15 is a hell of a figure.

I wonder if it every actually paid off.
Back when this was happening, there was a lot more exposure that a pro team could garner just by being out there. Magazines would provide free opportunities for teams to get their image out in front of thousands of people.

Quote:
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if i was that online store/company etc, i would only consider throwing that much money to teams that either a; have a high chance of victory/podium finishes (russians) or b; have high media exposure (canes, LIFT).
The question to ask yourself is, "what sells product". Podium appearances or fan base or overall exposure? The teams that I know were getting these deals were both taking top 4 at events and also were in every magazine every month.
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Old 12-03-2010, 04:00 PM #21
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IDK....if I give you $20 and everytime I do I find a $50....im glad I gave you the $20 LOL. You may not do anything but your a lucky charm

(no im not giving you $20 lol)


I think thats why people got this cash tho. Retialer does well decides to throw them cash....then makes more cash that year.....same the following year.....however the 3rd year when the economy is dropping and less people are buying their stuff and that 10k is the first to go out of the budget.

People are a lot more generous when they have cash to spare.
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