[502 killa]

Originally Posted by ladd_17

but don't penalize players by forcing them into higher divisions for playing small local events. .

By winning or doing good in these series you advance your self. i dont know why you would see it as a penalty instead of an oppourtunity as you obviously have enough skill to play at the next level. no one is making you play open. Play it and take the points or keep playing in the lower divisions hoping you dont get ranked up.

[heisman01]

Originally Posted by 502 killa

By winning or doing good in these series you advance your self. i dont know why you would see it as a penalty instead of an oppourtunity as you obviously have enough skill to play at the next level.

The point of the points not being given isnt so the team that wins first place doesnt get 200+ points per person. Its so the team that came in 8th doesnt pick up 75 points per player, giving lower teams a chance to practice/play up against better teams in a tournment forces them to become better and wont end up ranking them out of there league. Unlike a typical practice were teams will play at there own pace and choose who they play against or often not be able to get to play the "up" teams which are both sceens ive seen play out at plex and alike practices.

I personally feel ide rather play a season or two of regional outlaw events build my team up skill wise and then have my appa have nothing but first place 200's when my team feels its time to take on the psp. As apposed to playing local and regional events and being pushed into d3/2/1 (what have you) and following this logic it would grow reional events for those who want to play nationally yet dont want to be thrown in over there head.

[ladd_17]

Originally Posted by LockDown Zach

It's a league, so APPA points should be given.

That's the bottom line, why you can't comprehend that is beyond me.

Find me a D2/D1/Pro squad that is going to attend every MSXL and approach this as another league that they're going to commit themselves to, and I'll shutup and go away. The Open division is an expensive, well organized practice, nothing more. If a D3/D4 team wants to play a league, well then that's what the D3/D4 MSXL divisions are for, now aren't they?

Originally Posted by pm7owner1

I think certain locals should just choose not to use appa. Regional events like msxl cfoa wcppl teams also do well at the national level. The events arent as big but i think there isnt to much difference in the level of play at least at the d4/d3 level. Look at teams like BA CPB and PG all did well at psp this year and played regional tournaments to prepare.

Originally Posted by ionballer00

Perfect example...look at teams like Raiden, Gridlock, and Cross-Eyed Paintball, they played the CFOA and PSP. They also do well if not the best in those leagues.

Good point John.

I'm not sure what point you two are trying to make.

[ladd_17]

Originally Posted by 502 killa

By winning or doing good in these series you advance your self. i dont know why you would see it as a penalty instead of an oppourtunity as you obviously have enough skill to play at the next level. no one is making you play open. Play it and take the points or keep playing in the lower divisions hoping you dont get ranked up.

Since everyone wants to use us as an example, I'll go along with that here real quick: We don't plan to do well in the Open division. We hope to get smashed on point-after-point, event-after-event, because we know that will do more for us in preparing for the PSP. If we just wanted to win, then we would just play our division and this whole conversation wouldn't be happening.

[iTzDoUgiE777]

Originally Posted by LockDown Zach

It's a league, so APPA points should be given.

That's the bottom line, why you can't comprehend that is beyond me.

Edit: People who play the open division, are more than likely going to be playing higher division in the psp. Thus this really isn't going to affect much. And anyway, a team that comes into this division and smashes everyone SHOULD be playing a higher division, not sandbagging psp events.

[LockDown Zach]

Originally Posted by ladd_17

Find me a D2/D1/Pro squad that is going to attend every MSXL and approach this as another league that they're going to commit themselves to, and I'll shutup and go away. The Open division is an expensive, well organized practice, nothing more. If a D3/D4 team wants to play a league, well then that's what the D3/D4 MSXL divisions are for, now aren't they?

I'm not talking about those teams, I'm talking about the teams that play the open division like it should be taken, as another Xball event, not JUST a practice.

The Open division at least in my eyes, is for teams who are wanting to step up to the "big leagues" (if that comparison makes sense) and challenge themselves by playing the best competition available in the area. And if you are doing well in that division, as I said before you should be getting ranked higher, as you have no business obviously playing lower divisions.

[pm7owner1]

Originally Posted by ladd_17

Since everyone wants to use us as an example, I'll go along with that here real quick: We don't plan to do well in the Open division. We hope to get smashed on point-after-point, event-after-event, because we know that will do more for us in preparing for the PSP. If we just wanted to win, then we would just play our division and this whole conversation wouldn't be happening.

So what your telling me is you want to play d2 tournaments all year. (even though you make think of them as practice they are tournaments). Then go sandbag in d4? You may do bad at first event maybe 2 but if take the things you did wrong i believe you should be able to compete without getting smashed by the end of the season.

[502 killa]

but for real who all is going to play this.

[pm7owner1]

lockdown should have a line there!

[ladd_17]

Originally Posted by LockDown Zach

I'm not talking about those teams, I'm talking about the teams that play the open division like it should be taken, as another Xball event, not JUST a practice.

And what I'm trying to tell you is that those teams don't exist. No team is going to approach the Open division of the MSXL as an X-ball event, they will approach it as a chance to prepare for PSP

Originally Posted by LockDown Zach

The Open division at least in my eyes, is for teams who are wanting to step up to the "big leagues" (if that comparison makes sense) and challenge themselves by playing the best competition available in the area. And if you are doing well in that division, as I said before you should be getting ranked higher, as you have no business obviously playing lower divisions.

I completely agree, however, what if you play this division and get beat on? That's what I think an outlaw division should be: a chance for lower division teams to play against the upper divisions, take some beatings and use them to learn and grow in preparation for the national events.

[ladd_17]

Originally Posted by pm7owner1

So what your telling me is you want to play d2 tournaments all year. (even though you make think of them as practice they are tournaments). Then go sandbag in d4? You may do bad at first event maybe 2 but if take the things you did wrong i believe you should be able to compete without getting smashed by the end of the season.

If you'd get over your petty hatred for bA I think it'd make this concept a lot easier for you to understand. You're too busy trying to make me out as some sort of bad guy to see the potential here.

You do make a decent point here though: what if a team does learn enough playing MSXL to jump from D4 to D2 and compete mid-season? (I don't think it's likely, but for the sake of argument...)

THAT'S THE POINT! To get the teams from around here to compete and make each other better (we really do have a lot of talent, we're just too busy fighting amongst ourselves about who has the biggest dick to get organized enough to bring on the MidWest dominance that we can create.)

[pookie12]

I am starting to see your point regarding rankings and the Outlaw division. Since anyone can play there is no need to involve the APPA system, whos only purpose is to make sure people are playing in appropriate divisions.

[pm7owner1]

Originally Posted by ladd_17

If you'd get over your petty hatred for bA I think it'd make this concept a lot easier for you to understand. You're too busy trying to make me out as some sort of bad guy to see the potential here.

You do make a decent point here though: what if a team does learn enough playing MSXL to jump from D4 to D2 and compete mid-season? (I don't think it's likely, but for the sake of argument...)

THAT'S THE POINT! To get the teams from around here to compete and make each other better (we really do have a lot of talent, we're just too busy fighting amongst ourselves about who has the biggest dick to get organized enough to bring on the MidWest dominance that we can create.)

Instead of the tournament why not just organize a practice and run matches instead it would be cheaper and wouldnt use appa is basically what your saying? I think that would be a GREAT idea but that isnt what this is.

[ladd_17]

Because the upper tier teams always end up pairing off with each other/refusing to step on with lower level teams, and the lower divisional teams end up just playing against each other (if they get on the field at all)

[LockDown Zach]

Originally Posted by ladd_17

If you'd get over your petty hatred for bA I think it'd make this concept a lot easier for you to understand. You're too busy trying to make me out as some sort of bad guy to see the potential here.

You do make a decent point here though: what if a team does learn enough playing MSXL to jump from D4 to D2 and compete mid-season? (I don't think it's likely, but for the sake of argument...)

THAT'S THE POINT! To get the teams from around here to compete and make each other better (we really do have a lot of talent, we're just too busy fighting amongst ourselves about who has the biggest dick to get organized enough to bring on the MidWest dominance that we can create.)

He's not trying to make you out as some kind of a bad guy.

Teams shouldn't be allowed to just sit in a division, they should be forced to bump up when they've proved
themselves, at least that's how I see it.

[ladd_17]

And I agree with you, what I'm trying to say is that we shouldn't push those players who HAVEN'T proved themselves simply because they played up a division at a regional event, trying to get some experience against better teams.

EDIT: For the record, being competitive at a national event doesn't qualify as 'proving yourself', I'd argue that a team needs to be dominant (top 4 consistently) for an entire season before they've PROVED they're ready, even if they get relegated up in division due to points accumulation.

[ionballer00]

Originally Posted by ladd_17

I'm not sure what point you two are trying to make.

Not every post was directed to a comment you made, so quoting and commenting on it was not necessary. It was a comment about what pm7owner said about Tapper's post.

[p8ntball1987]

I dont think anyone here is trying to hate on BA or make you to be some sort of a bad guy.

The conversation is more general. Personally, I think the world of Mr Warner and would do anything for him. Not to mention one of my best friends Alex Hammons plays on BA.

However, i COMPLETELY disagree with what you are saying as far as no open team is taking the msxl tournament seriously. Granted, it is a decent chance for a practice against other teams of your caliber but the bottom line is that it is a tournament, and teams will treat it as such.

I love the MSXL, I think it is fantastic for this area, Darren does a fantastic job at doing exactly what this league is supposed to do. Which is prepare teams for larger national events. If your team receives points that effects your rankings enough to force you to play a higher division in the PSP then so be it. Obviously you got those points for a reason, and obviously you should be playing at a higher division. (again, Not taking shots at blind aggression)

APPA does exactly what its supposed to do, It causes teams to move up. meaning they cant sit in the same division and win win win year after year. Whenever i see a team complaining about this it only proves the point that indeed that is what they are trying to do, sandbag the same division year after year. Rather it be for financial gain (doubt it) or just bragging rights for the 1st place after 1st place. At any rate, its sickening.

If you want to know the other side of the coin , I am a perfect example. APPA swings both ways.

Fortunately over the past few years myself and my team have finished well in numerous events. But because of this we are being (i hate using this word) Punished on the local scene. I havnt been able to compete in an msxl to this date because of my ranking. I am not blaming APPA, Nor Darren or his league. It is what it is, and with this new open league i look forward to finally being able to play.

So for all of you people complaining about having to play in a higher division because of the points you received for doing well in the tournament. Put yourself in my shoes. At least you can play.


disclaimer: again, although i've mentioned Ba directly, this post is not 100% directed towards the team.

[raehl]

I think it's important for everyone to realize we had a major change in the classification system this year - if you play a higher division event, and you do poorly, you're getting less points than if you played a lower division and even placed middle of the pack. So go play the D2 event - if you get killed, it isn't going to affect your classification at all.

But if you're going to play a D2 level event, and win a D2 level event, then that's going to start effecting your classification. If you keep doing well at D2 level events, then the system is going to stop letting you play D4, and stop letting you put you whole team of D2 players into D3. Because you don't belong there. And if you don't think you should play a D2-level event, then DON'T PLAY ONE - play D3.


Now, I don't know the particular details of this event off-hand. If there's only one division, it's possible it could count as D3. But if there's an open/ division and a D3 division, then if you want to play D3, play D3, and you'll get D3 points, and if you want to play D2, play D2, and you'll get D2 points.


But if you're good enough to be winning D2, and are mad that you then can't go back and play D4, well, I don't think there's any problem there really. (And you can still play D3 too, you just can't play D3 with a whole team of D2 players.)


Rmember:

D5: Brand spanking newbies. Nobody stays here for long, and you should be embarassed to play there if you're not a brand-spankig newbie.
D4: The "fun" division. You can stay here as long as you like, unless oyu're consistently winning.
D3: Where most competitive teams will end up - if you're practicing on a regular basis, you should expect to end up in D3 after a season or two. But if you are sucking it up even with practice, you'll still be in D4 forever.
D2: IF you're killing people in D3, you'll get bumped ot D2, and your options are going to be play as a team at the regional/national level, or become the D2 guy on a D3 team. I realize this may kinda stink for the team that gets bumped out of D3, but it stinks even more for the other D3 teams to have the same team dominating the division year after year after year.


Anyway, short answer, if you feel like you're a D3 team, then play D3. If you play D2, and you do well enough to rack up points, then it's because you're NOT a D3 team, and the system is just recognizing this.



- Chris

[p8ntball1987]

Originally Posted by raehl

I think it's important for everyone to realize we had a major change in the classification system this year - if you play a higher division event, and you do poorly, you're getting less points than if you played a lower division and even placed middle of the pack. So go play the D2 event - if you get killed, it isn't going to affect your classification at all.

But if you're going to play a D2 level event, and win a D2 level event, then that's going to start effecting your classification. If you keep doing well at D2 level events, then the system is going to stop letting you play D4, and stop letting you put you whole team of D2 players into D3. Because you don't belong there. And if you don't think you should play a D2-level event, then DON'T PLAY ONE - play D3.


Now, I don't know the particular details of this event off-hand. If there's only one division, it's possible it could count as D3. But if there's an open/ division and a D3 division, then if you want to play D3, play D3, and you'll get D3 points, and if you want to play D2, play D2, and you'll get D2 points.


But if you're good enough to be winning D2, and are mad that you then can't go back and play D4, well, I don't think there's any problem there really. (And you can still play D3 too, you just can't play D3 with a whole team of D2 players.)


Rmember:

D5: Brand spanking newbies. Nobody stays here for long, and you should be embarassed to play there if you're not a brand-spankig newbie.
D4: The "fun" division. You can stay here as long as you like, unless oyu're consistently winning.
D3: Where most competitive teams will end up - if you're practicing on a regular basis, you should expect to end up in D3 after a season or two. But if you are sucking it up even with practice, you'll still be in D4 forever.
D2: IF you're killing people in D3, you'll get bumped ot D2, and your options are going to be play as a team at the regional/national level, or become the D2 guy on a D3 team. I realize this may kinda stink for the team that gets bumped out of D3, but it stinks even more for the other D3 teams to have the same team dominating the division year after year after year.


Anyway, short answer, if you feel like you're a D3 team, then play D3. If you play D2, and you do well enough to rack up points, then it's because you're NOT a D3 team, and the system is just recognizing this.



- Chris

/thread.

well said chris.

[grantiscool]

touche touche