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Old 11-27-2010, 08:16 AM #22
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Agreed. I'd rather see a TRUE open division as in: not tied to APPA at all.
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Old 11-27-2010, 06:39 PM #23
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i think it should be tied to appa and just count as d2 points. Because that would allow some teams to play this gett all the experience then sandbag in d4 still.....
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Old 11-27-2010, 07:23 PM #24
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I don't think D4 and D3 teams would play if they already have a division that they are eligible to play in. I think the intrest will come from those who are ranked D2 or higher. I think the APPA should be used to keep people honest.
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Old 11-28-2010, 11:08 AM #25
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thats what im saying./
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Old 11-28-2010, 01:23 PM #26
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All valid points. What we have been approved to do is a true Open Division with rosters limited to number of people on the roster only. You can have any number of D4-Pro players on your roster and APPA will recognize as D2 points only.
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Old 11-28-2010, 04:48 PM #27
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Old 11-28-2010, 08:16 PM #28
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All valid points. What we have been approved to do is a true Open Division with rosters limited to number of people on the roster only. You can have any number of D4-Pro players on your roster and APPA will recognize as D2 points only.
And that's how it should be.
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Old 11-29-2010, 03:57 PM #29
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i think it should be tied to appa and just count as d2 points. Because that would allow some teams to play this gett all the experience then sandbag in d4 still.....
I tend to disagree. Perhaps the MSXL is a bad example to use as it is a fairly large series, but I think the APPA is killing tournament paintball by being tied to so many of the smaller tournament series' around the country. For example, quite a few guys from the bA roster played in a SEPS event last year and earned more points towards their APPA rank than they did for WINNING World Cup, that just seems dumb to me. Have the national and larger regional series' hold a points value in APPA ranking, but don't penalize players by forcing them into higher divisions for playing small local events. People get ranked really high really quick and pretty soon their faced with the option of playing a division they have no hope of competing in or quitting and spending their time and money elsewhere.

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I don't think D4 and D3 teams would play if they already have a division that they are eligible to play in. I think the intrest will come from those who are ranked D2 or higher. I think the APPA should be used to keep people honest.
It's an OUTLAW division. There shouldn't be any rules regarding rank because they're allowing anyone to play in it, regardless of rank. As such, using APPA is unnecessary.
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Old 11-29-2010, 08:35 PM #30
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Furthermore, putting a TRUE Outlaw division in place: all ranks allowed, no points assessed, would do absolutely nothing but strengthen midwest paintball as a whole. Doing this allows the teams to treat the MSXL as a well organized practice for the PSP. For the upper division teams it offers a chance to fine tune the little intricacies of the game while the lower division teams get the chance to play against much better competition than what they would normally see in a ranked event or in private practices. It's a win/win for both groups that I think would have a marked impact on level of competition coming out of the midwest as whole.

An MSXL team has won the D4 X-ball at World Cup for 2 years running, what if we added D3 and D2 to that list? I think we can do that if we let ourselves.
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Old 11-29-2010, 09:21 PM #31
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why dont you count the points as d5 so we and maybe some other d4,3 teams can use this as a warm up for the other psp events
LSD would make the travel to all the events and play open if it didnt effect our ranking so we could compete on the d3x level @ psp for 2011.

were all about great practice turnys but are rank is always of concern
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Old 11-29-2010, 09:30 PM #32
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Furthermore, putting a TRUE Outlaw division in place: all ranks allowed, no points assessed, would do absolutely nothing but strengthen midwest paintball as a whole. Doing this allows the teams to treat the MSXL as a well organized practice for the PSP. For the upper division teams it offers a chance to fine tune the little intricacies of the game while the lower division teams get the chance to play against much better competition than what they would normally see in a ranked event or in private practices. It's a win/win for both groups that I think would have a marked impact on level of competition coming out of the midwest as whole.

An MSXL team has won the D4 X-ball at World Cup for 2 years running, what if we added D3 and D2 to that list? I think we can do that if we let ourselves.
^^^ Get out of my head man, it's like you're reading my mind. ^^^
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Old 11-29-2010, 10:23 PM #33
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Then do it, haha.

I really like that you're doing this, but you need to drop the points from being applied if playing this "outlaw" division. I can handle the D5 ranking idea. It's a good compromise that allows the leagues to acknowledge that players are playing in preparatory events, but doesn't needlessly add obscene amounts of points to your ranking.
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Old 11-30-2010, 12:31 AM #34
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so many people are worried about their rankings going up


oh no if i play this i wont be able to play d4 anymore right?
get your **** together and play the events.
theres so many people worrying that they wont be able to play d4 anymore.

I remember a time when people WANTED to move up in the rankings to play with the big boys. that time is long gone.
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Old 11-30-2010, 12:38 AM #35
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so many people are worried about their rankings going up


oh no if i play this i wont be able to play d4 anymore right?
get your **** together and play the events.
theres so many people worrying that they wont be able to play d4 anymore.

I remember a time when people WANTED to move up in the rankings to play with the big boys. that time is long gone.
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Old 11-30-2010, 12:43 AM #36
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so many people are worried about their rankings going up


oh no if i play this i wont be able to play d4 anymore right?
get your **** together and play the events.
theres so many people worrying that they wont be able to play d4 anymore.

I remember a time when people WANTED to move up in the rankings to play with the big boys. that time is long gone.
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Old 11-30-2010, 07:53 AM #37
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so many people are worried about their rankings going up...
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blah blah blah
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I'm an idiot
Justin, you realize what I'm saying we should do is EXACTLY what you're advocating, I just don't want the APPA points associated to it when I'm playing in events that really don't matter in the grand scheme of my paintball career. No offense to the MSXL, it's a great league, but national events matter, local and regional events do not. When comes down to it, for the teams who compete in the PSP, MSXL should be viewed as nothing more than a well-organized and expensive practice.

The idea I'm proposing is that we use the MSXL as an opportunity for the lower divisional teams in the midwest to compete against the upper divisional teams without it hurting their ranking. Leave the ‘classic’ D4 and D3 in place for the teams who want to compete at the appropriate level and earn points towards their APPA/PSP season rank when they attend the MSXL’s, then create an Open/Outlaw division for A) Pro/D1/D2 teams who want to play the layouts in a tournament environment before the big show and B) D3/D4 teams who want to play against better competition than what they will see in their respective divisions of the PSP. You could even remove the prizes from this division: no penalty for playing, no perks for winning. It’s practice, you’re there to get better so you can be more competitive in the PSP.
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Old 11-30-2010, 09:24 AM #38
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You can think of the outlaw division as a practice but it is a tournament and should be counted on appa. If you want a organized practice against high level teams i know plex holds big practices all the time. Many players on ba have been playing since at least 2004 but somehow kept a d4 rankings even though i know a couple of your players played d2 nppl. D4 is meant for newer tournament players not people who have been around for years. There isnt a reason to try and see how long you can stay in D4 and avoid moving up the ranks.
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Old 11-30-2010, 09:29 AM #39
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My suggestion to the APPA was to have the Nationals count for more points than the regionals and locals. We will see if they can figure out a formula that works.
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Old 11-30-2010, 09:48 AM #40
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I think certain locals should just choose not to use appa. Regional events like msxl cfoa wcppl teams also do well at the national level. The events arent as big but i think there isnt to much difference in the level of play at least at the d4/d3 level. Look at teams like BA CPB and PG all did well at psp this year and played regional tournaments to prepare.
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Old 11-30-2010, 02:49 PM #41
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It’s practice, you’re there to get better so you can be more competitive in the PSP.
It's a league, so APPA points should be given.

That's the bottom line, why you can't comprehend that is beyond me.

Edit: People who play the open division, are more than likely going to be playing higher division in the psp. Thus this really isn't going to affect much. And anyway, a team that comes into this division and smashes everyone SHOULD be playing a higher division, not sandbagging psp events.
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Old 11-30-2010, 03:18 PM #42
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I think certain locals should just choose not to use appa. Regional events like msxl cfoa wcppl teams also do well at the national level. The events arent as big but i think there isnt to much difference in the level of play at least at the d4/d3 level. Look at teams like BA CPB and PG all did well at psp this year and played regional tournaments to prepare.
Perfect example...look at teams like Raiden, Gridlock, and Cross-Eyed Paintball, they played the CFOA and PSP. They also do well if not the best in those leagues.

Good point John.
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