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Old 11-03-2010, 10:31 PM #22
TokenAlcoholic (Banned)
 
 
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Originally Posted by AirSin2000 View Post
Like what you did in you're original post? For somebody being in the sport for as long as you said you have, I expect more.

Everybody has their opinions, that's fine, but 50 cal is inferior. Scientifically proven.
No it isn't...
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Old 11-03-2010, 10:35 PM #23
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Not here. Fields are not allowed to have a fps rating above 300 FPS period. Regulations changing? I highly doubt it, unless the WHOLE industry pushed for it, which it's not going to.

Sure, in places where Joules determines paintball rules, 50 cal is great but that's about it.

Token, prove it isn't. At the allowed regulations (300 fps, etc) it is inferior, and is proven. Take a look around. So far, all you have is a bark, and no bite.
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Old 11-03-2010, 10:39 PM #24
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how do you think they calculate the FPS? Well a chrono of course..

Why do they choose that number of FPS? well because of the joules. Same reason why Germany has the FPS limit much lower than ours. Why Can Germany shoot 300FPS with 50 cal? why it's because of the joules...

If they got their stuff together and set the joules to 13 with 50cal instead of the 5, it would make up for the ball breakage, feet loss.
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Old 11-03-2010, 10:40 PM #25
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If were shooting it at 5 joules vs the 13 sure. Shoot a .50cal at 482fps and a 68 at 300 and run tests. Run them both at 13 joules. The joules is what regulates paintball rules.
That is not what "regulates" paintball rules in the U.S. If Spitlebug is monitoring this thread, he can tell you what "regulates" paintball rules in Canada. In the U.S., there is no uniform set of paintball rules that applies across the board. For fields, insurance requirements are the primary driving factor, and most of the underwriters look to ASTM standards. So far, insurance companies have set the limits at below 300 fps regardless of caliber, and Italia has stated that he/GIMilsim will not push for a different limit for .50.

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Old 11-03-2010, 10:47 PM #26
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So how do they come up with the 300FPS rule? What makes that the lucky number? A number drawn from a hat? Or is it a number that is from bodily harm and limits that the mask is capable of taking multiple times without breaking on your face?

FPS is the number that fields go by because they can read it from the radar guns known as chronographs at the field. They make all paintballs weight roughly the same, how many paintballs out there weigh more than 3.5 grams?
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Old 11-03-2010, 10:53 PM #27
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I don't think it specifies a speed limit for the paintball on the insurance policy. I talked to my field owner, he said they didn't specify the need.
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Old 11-03-2010, 10:54 PM #28
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Anything past 300 fps can indeed cause heavy bodily harm. Masks are required to, by ASTM standards, take the the force from a paintball flying 300fps at a minimum. Now most manufacturers increase that on their own standards, and some like KEE test their lenses up to 500 fps for variable reasons.

Its just the standard in which the ASTM set for us here in the us, same with insurance companies. Every country is going to have different regulations depending on regulations and laws of that country (in which some classify markers as firearms, thus having strict standards on them).
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Old 11-03-2010, 11:03 PM #29
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300fps causes bodily harm? incorrect.

If i shot a rolled up piece of paper at 300fps, will it hurt? most likely not. will it make a mark? doubtful.

Its about the joules, Hell you learn this in 4th grade science.
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Old 11-03-2010, 11:28 PM #30
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I'm not talking about rolling up a ball of ****en paper and shooting it @ 300 fps. I'm talking about a .68 caliber paintball, LIKE WE HAVE ALL BEEN.

We don't do joules here, we do FPS. Anything past 300 fps has been deemed hazardous enough which is why the legal limit is @ 300 fps, NO MORE.
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Old 11-03-2010, 11:34 PM #31
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Quote:
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Anything past 300 fps can indeed cause heavy bodily harm.
You don't understand or you are simply not reading what i've been posting.
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Old 11-03-2010, 11:37 PM #32
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AirSin2000 View Post
I'm not talking about rolling up a ball of ****en paper and shooting it @ 300 fps. I'm talking about a .68 caliber paintball, LIKE WE HAVE ALL BEEN.

We don't do joules here, we do FPS. Anything past 300 fps has been deemed hazardous enough which is why the legal limit is @ 300 fps, NO MORE.
By the way. Scientists who came up with the 13 joule limit in the USA and canada on a 3 gram object because that's the force of the body can safely endure is 13 joules.

Then when they measure the speed of the ball that travels to the target at 13 joules upon impact is 300fps. So they picked 300 fps.

Last edited by Shortbuscrew : 11-03-2010 at 11:41 PM.
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Old 11-04-2010, 12:20 AM #33
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I don't think it specifies a speed limit for the paintball on the insurance policy. I talked to my field owner, he said they didn't specify the need.
Mine very clearly states 300 fps outdoors and 275 indoors (I'm outdoors only). It may have been a while since he read whole renewal form but they are very specific about it. If you like I can dig up a copy of my blank renewal form and post it. I have been with 2 different companies and the forms were almost exactly the same.

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Old 11-04-2010, 12:41 AM #34
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No it isn't...
you, sir, are retarded. yes it is. it has been at every turn where any speck of science was used, as opposed to lies and fallacies(spelling?)
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Old 11-04-2010, 01:03 AM #35
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you, sir, are retarded. yes it is. it has been at every turn where any speck of science was used, as opposed to lies and fallacies (spelling?)
This.

.50 was proven to be broadly inferior, with rough parity in very few places and coming out ahead in even fewer niches- and those arguable. this was done predominantly via ballistics testing and more than a little math by several people.
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Old 11-04-2010, 01:35 AM #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shortbuscrew View Post
If were shooting it at 5 joules vs the 13 sure. Shoot a .50cal at 482fps and a 68 at 300 and run tests. Run them both at 13 joules. The joules is what regulates paintball rules.
There will be no shooting paint at faster than 300fps, regardless of the caliber.

There has been no talk of increasing the velocity cap by members of the ASTM (to which I am also a member) and no mention of it from the insurance companies.

In fact, the insurance companies have outright dismissed shooting faster than 300fps.

So there you have it, definitive.
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Old 11-04-2010, 01:54 AM #37
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I was basically talking in theory, I can't see how this would be dangerous running the paint at the same joules on impact, with .50 and .68 at 13.

I would love to see if these "ballistics tests" were ran at 13 joules and not at 300fps with the .50

thanks spitle, would like to see them put more "evidence", you are the only one who can answer a question instead of preaching the same thing.

As for inferior, Proof of them not using the paintballs at 300fps each? if so, then yes its proven science and doesnt even need to be tested that the .68 will break easier than a .50 More mass, more joules and more surface area........... DURRRRRRR doesnt take a retard to figure that out.

Last edited by Shortbuscrew : 11-04-2010 at 01:56 AM.
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Old 11-04-2010, 02:19 AM #38
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yankee Paintball View Post
Mine very clearly states 300 fps outdoors and 275 indoors (I'm outdoors only). It may have been a while since he read whole renewal form but they are very specific about it. If you like I can dig up a copy of my blank renewal form and post it. I have been with 2 different companies and the forms were almost exactly the same.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shortbuscrew View Post
By the way. Scientists who came up with the 13 joule limit in the USA and canada on a 3 gram object because that's the force of the body can safely endure is 13 joules.

Then when they measure the speed of the ball that travels to the target at 13 joules upon impact is 300fps. So they picked 300 fps.


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There will be no shooting paint at faster than 300fps, regardless of the caliber.

There has been no talk of increasing the velocity cap by members of the ASTM (to which I am also a member) and no mention of it from the insurance companies.

In fact, the insurance companies have outright dismissed shooting faster than 300fps.

So there you have it, definitive.

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shortbuscrew View Post
I was basically talking in theory, I can't see how this would be dangerous running the paint at the same joules on impact, with .50 and .68 at 13.

I would love to see if these "ballistics tests" were ran at 13 joules and not at 300fps with the .50

thanks spitle, would like to see them put more "evidence", you are the only one who can answer a question instead of preaching the same thing.

As for inferior, Proof of them not using the paintballs at 300fps each? if so, then yes its proven science and doesnt even need to be tested that the .68 will break easier than a .50 More mass, more joules and more surface area........... DURRRRRRR doesnt take a retard to figure that out.
Preaching the same thing like what you and the OP was doing?

Why is anybody within the US going to test the 50 caliber paint over 300 fps to see if it is better than 68 cal? At the allowed maximum of 300 fps, 50 cal is inferior in many ways to 50 cal. We're not talking different velocities. We're talking same velocity as allowed by regulations.
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Old 11-04-2010, 07:13 AM #39
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you, sir, are retarded. yes it is. it has been at every turn where any speck of science was used, as opposed to lies and fallacies(spelling?)
I have yet to see any of your pseudoscience prove beyond a reasonable doubt that .50 cal is unusable as a paintball.
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Old 11-04-2010, 07:40 AM #40
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People who claim their isn't an insurance-specified field FPS limit obviously have never read the basic insurance application forms (all available online to anyone who wants to check it out).

Coupled with the statements that 300FPS regardless of caliber, this is just a false argument.

Of course, if people want to use .50, fine - feel free. Just realize that they will be facing the same negatives that we've all seen with smaller caliber paintballs over the years.

Again, there are darn good reasons that .68 became the standard of the industry - so don't try to polish the .50 turd.
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Old 11-04-2010, 07:45 AM #41
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I have yet to see any of your pseudoscience prove beyond a reasonable doubt that .50 cal is unusable as a paintball.
So, exactly where has the argument ever been that .50 is unuseable? As far I can tell, no one has said that. What has been said & proven, is that .50 is inferior to .68 & should not be sold as the "next big thing" in paintball.

If people want to use it, sure - I see a good use for it for birthday parties, some rentals, and indoor fields. Otherwise, .68 just has too many advantages for it to catch on in any big way.

The proof is in the pudding - supposedly this has been available for over a year now, yet the overall impact on the game & industry has been tiny (or non-existant).

Probably the reason why GI Milsim/Sportz is pushing its .68 caliber paint line now.
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Old 11-04-2010, 07:56 AM #42
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So, exactly where has the argument ever been that .50 is unuseable? As far I can tell, no one has said that. What has been said & proven, is that .50 is inferior to .68 & should not be sold as the "next big thing" in paintball.

If people want to use it, sure - I see a good use for it for birthday parties, some rentals, and indoor fields. Otherwise, .68 just has too many advantages for it to catch on in any big way.

The proof is in the pudding - supposedly this has been available for over a year now, yet the overall impact on the game & industry has been tiny (or non-existant).

Probably the reason why GI Milsim/Sportz is pushing its .68 caliber paint line now.
You normally use no real Scotsman fallacy or is this something you only break out for .50 cal discussions?
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