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Old 10-22-2010, 12:28 AM #1
harlostatus
 
 
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So, I just ran some nubers, and .50 isn't the same as .68, even at 470fps

While reading another thread, I decided to run some numbers to prove a point. I think it should be out there for all who think shooting .50 at 470 will be the same. I would just like to say I'm 16 and everything I used here came straight out of an ap pysics textbook. So, to begin:

Momentum and energy transfer are the things going to determine ballistics and safety of 2 different balls.
Avg. mass of .68 = 0.0032 kg
Avg. mass of .50 = 0.0013 kg
Avg.velocity of .68 =300fps = 91.44 meters per second

Kinetic energy of .68=kinetic enegy of .50

1/2mv^2=1/2mv^2

1/2(.0032)(91.44)^2=1/2(.0013)v^2
13.378 joules=0.00065v^2
v=143.423 m/s =470.548 fps

This means there is the same energy transfer from a.68 at 300fps as there is from a .50 at 471 fps. That's what the mask ratings go off of. energy transferred. So a .50 at 470 will be safe to use with a mask rated for 300fps with .68

next, momentum. what determines ballistic properties.

Momentum of .68 = momentum of .50

mv=mv
.0032(91.44)=.0013v
v=225.083 m/s =738.461 fps

So to maintain the same ballistics, ignoring air resistance, .50 would have to be shot at 738.5 fps to go the same distance at the same trajectory. ets convert this back to energy.
1/2(.0013)(225.083)^2=1/2(.0032)v^2
v=143.462 m/s =470.675 fps

So to behave ballistcally the same as a .68, a .50 would have to shoot with the same energy as a .68 shot at 470fps

Therefore, playing .50 at 470fps will give you the same energy transfer as a .68 and be safe for masks, but you'll still have ****ty ballistis and it won't be as good as .68 unless you shoot the .50 at 738 fps, in which case it's nowhere near safe. I invite anyone who knows anything about physics to corret me anywhere I'm wrong t prove I'm not biasing thenumbers. Tht being said, id love to see .50 die a painful death. Also, i was shocked to see that .50 needs to be shot that hot tomaintaon the same ballistics. you should be too. 50 will never be as good within any safe fps. ever. period.



Conclusion: GI milsim are ****ty people and dirty liars, and by no numbers whatsoever does .50 outperform .68 in any way at any safe velocity. there is no way to dispute that, numbers don't lie. Thanks for reading!
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Old 10-22-2010, 02:11 AM #2
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good point.good math.good job.
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Old 10-22-2010, 06:51 PM #3
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thanks bro I ran all this by my physics teacher today and she confirmed all the calculations were done correctly. So it's accurate, unlike .50cal
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Old 10-24-2010, 07:45 PM #4
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Wow bro your really smart.
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Old 10-24-2010, 09:28 PM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harlostatus View Post
So it's accurate, unlike .50cal
lmao
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Old 10-25-2010, 10:48 AM #6
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I could see it being useful for a front player - but this stuff is just not going to work for laning OTB (especially if there is any wind).
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Old 10-25-2010, 06:53 PM #7
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well im wasnt a big fan of 50 cal paintballing but after i watched a few vids on youtube I have to point out a few advantages 50 cal can offer a player
capacity, weight, efficiency, and slightly smaller guns
you can fit 300-400 balls in a 50 cal hopper vs 200 in a 68 cal, approx. 350 in a pod.
carrying 3 pods
50 cal 1050 balls weighing 1.365kg
or
68 cal 420 balls weighing 1.344kg
A player can carry the same or more .50 cal balls and weigh less then if they used .68 cal paint.
less reloading, less ball mass would take less air to shoot and increase shoots per ci of the tank, smaller/lighter moving parts in the gun lessens kick.

The only thing that .68 cal has over .50 cal is volume of paint inside causing bigger hit marks and long distance ball breakage. that is pretty much it
yes .68 balls will fly a smoother trajectory but if anyone used .50 cal for more then a game or two they would get used to the ball drop of .50 cal and compensate accordingly.
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Old 10-25-2010, 07:07 PM #8
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yeah, we've all heard the advantages and disadvantages 1000 times. But I feel that carrying more paint isnt worth losing all that range, accuracy, and breakability
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Old 10-25-2010, 08:55 PM #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harlostatus View Post
yeah, we've all heard the advantages and disadvantages 1000 times. But I feel that carrying more paint isnt worth losing all that range, accuracy, and breakability
So its more of a personal preference then a scientific calculation that you wont use .50 cal.
50 cal would be nice for small fields and that could spur whole new paintball market of small fields where land is either to expensive or lots are not large enough for big fields. maybe smaller indoor or urban close quarter fileds would like .50 cal because they dont really have long distance shooting.

I guess i like to see how it would work then see how it wouldnt.
I may not have a screwdriver but hey a butter knife works fine. As long as it fills a players needs it all gravy.
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Old 10-26-2010, 09:24 AM #10
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.50 is a JOKE PERIOD END OF STORY been out over a year and has NOT & will it NOT ever catch on!

Have a box and only sold one bag in 8 months.....

ps they tried 10-15 years ago to do this too...didn't work then either.
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Old 10-26-2010, 05:17 PM #11
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Originally Posted by i70pb View Post
.50 is a JOKE PERIOD END OF STORY been out over a year and has NOT & will it NOT ever catch on!

Have a box and only sold one bag in 8 months.....

ps they tried 10-15 years ago to do this too...didn't work then either.
it might not catch on but to say its a joke is ridiculous.
If .50 cal fails its only because you and other shops would not support it. people like you would rather consider it a complete failure then find it useful and spotlight its advantages over .68
How many .50 cal guns and .50 cal loaders did your shop stock?
Your too close minded or your just a .68 cal fanboy for life.
A good salesperson can sell anything including .50 cal guns and gear.
Just think, if you were successful at selling/stocking a bunch of .50 cal guns/gear and your shop was the only local shop around that has .50 stuff then it would drive more biz your way, thats more money for you.
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Old 10-26-2010, 07:01 PM #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by harlostatus View Post
While reading another thread, I decided to run some numbers to prove a point. I think it should be out there for all who think shooting .50 at 470 will be the same. I would just like to say I'm 16 and everything I used here came straight out of an ap pysics textbook. So, to begin:

Momentum and energy transfer are the things going to determine ballistics and safety of 2 different balls.
Avg. mass of .68 = 0.0032 kg
Avg. mass of .50 = 0.0013 kg
Avg.velocity of .68 =300fps = 91.44 meters per second

Kinetic energy of .68=kinetic enegy of .50

1/2mv^2=1/2mv^2

1/2(.0032)(91.44)^2=1/2(.0013)v^2
13.378 joules=0.00065v^2
v=143.423 m/s =470.548 fps

This means there is the same energy transfer from a.68 at 300fps as there is from a .50 at 471 fps. That's what the mask ratings go off of. energy transferred. So a .50 at 470 will be safe to use with a mask rated for 300fps with .68

next, momentum. what determines ballistic properties.

Momentum of .68 = momentum of .50

mv=mv
.0032(91.44)=.0013v
v=225.083 m/s =738.461 fps

So to maintain the same ballistics, ignoring air resistance, .50 would have to be shot at 738.5 fps to go the same distance at the same trajectory. ets convert this back to energy.
1/2(.0013)(225.083)^2=1/2(.0032)v^2
v=143.462 m/s =470.675 fps

So to behave ballistcally the same as a .68, a .50 would have to shoot with the same energy as a .68 shot at 470fps

Therefore, playing .50 at 470fps will give you the same energy transfer as a .68 and be safe for masks, but you'll still have ****ty ballistis and it won't be as good as .68 unless you shoot the .50 at 738 fps, in which case it's nowhere near safe. I invite anyone who knows anything about physics to corret me anywhere I'm wrong t prove I'm not biasing thenumbers. Tht being said, id love to see .50 die a painful death. Also, i was shocked to see that .50 needs to be shot that hot tomaintaon the same ballistics. you should be too. 50 will never be as good within any safe fps. ever. period.



Conclusion: GI milsim are ****ty people and dirty liars, and by no numbers whatsoever does .50 outperform .68 in any way at any safe velocity. there is no way to dispute that, numbers don't lie. Thanks for reading!

i feel smarter reading this
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Old 10-26-2010, 07:11 PM #13
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Nubers.
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Old 10-26-2010, 07:19 PM #14
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.50 Cal will have its niche, such as young kids wanting to playing at home, their parents may get it.

However one of the biggest "Advantages" that is advertised is that .50 cal will be so much cheaper than .68. However, the same companies making this claim then go on to state that you can carry X more .50 cal rounds on the field than you can .68.

So basically, I buy a $50 case of .68 that has 2,000 rounds in it. I use 500 a game including pods and such. (I don't, I play pump, .50 cal will never make it there) So I get 4 games.

I then buy a $35 case of .50 cal (Ironically, 2,000 rounds, G.I. MilSim 1 Star, cheapest I can find) Of which I carry 1,000 rounds to the field and get two games.

Now, I don't HAVE to carry the full load to the field, but judging by the lack of ballistic support (Proven in this thread and many other places) I will have to use just that much to hit a target since even the slightest wind variation will have impacts on my trajectory.

In other words, $50 for 4, sure games of good ol' .68 cal madness. (As well as continuing to use my old guns I have tweaked and loved)

Or $70 for 4, possible depending on how windy it is, how perfect my regulator is, and how big the field is, games of the new comer .50 cal. (As well as the cost of new gear).


I can see .50 cal catching on to new rec players. 500 rounds of it would be cheaper for a few friends to go to the woods and play in, Not to mention that the guns might be cheaper and lighter for younger players. However, in the long run for older players such as myself it becomes more expensive. (Much so when you consider that I play pump, my guns of choice are a 05 Prostock Pumped and a Older style SL-68II. Neither of these will ever have a conversion kit so I would have to quit playing pump till I could make something work).



TL;DR My opinion.
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Old 10-26-2010, 07:45 PM #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pbverik View Post
i feel smarter reading this
lol yeah all those calculations look like a foreign language to me
looks like good work
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Old 10-26-2010, 07:55 PM #16
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Unless you're playing in a vacuum, you can't ignore air resistance - it changes everything. You're math is right, but you're physics and logic is wrong.
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Old 10-26-2010, 09:46 PM #17
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Air resistance imparts itself almost equally on both balls, only lending a slight advantage to the .50 because of it's lower surface area when inertia is the same. I wrote this meaning for it to represent the differences in the same conditions, and because air resistance will impart itself on the balls in an almost identical manner, the numbers will be close. true you can't ignore it, but you can neglect it to calculate forces and momentum as conserved quantities and show the difference between 2 things. now, shoot either one at a much higher altitude that the other, in different weather, or with different wind affecting it, and you need to factor it in. My writeup is supposed to compare two people on the same field in the same conditions, one using .50 and the other .68
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Old 10-26-2010, 10:10 PM #18
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Best thread ive read in awhile. Thanks everyone! not that i would have shot a .50 cal anyway.
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Old 10-27-2010, 08:00 AM #19
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A good salesperson can sell anything including .50 cal guns and gear.
unless you run up against a *gasp* educated consumer.
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Old 10-27-2010, 09:47 AM #20
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.50 isn't liked because all the internet kiddies don't like to get close to shoot people.


when you shoot people out from a bunker away this stuff is gold. especially if you know how to chill paint.
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Old 10-27-2010, 11:46 AM #21
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The surface area of a 68 is almost 40% larger than a 50, which is significant. You can't just disregard real life. It skews all of your results.

I'll give you credit for attempting this, but frankly the real life application of this is out of your league (I took ap physics c in high school, I know what your learning (theory) ) and it's putting false information into way too impressionable minds.
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