Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-28-2012, 11:22 AM #1786
orionz06
Turtle Wrangler
 
orionz06's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Pittsburgh,PA
Annual Supporting Member
orionz06 is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
orionz06 is an NCPA player
orionz06 is Immortal
orionz06 supports DLX Technology
I suck but I sound the way I want on certain amps and not on others. Good gear is merely part of the equation. Gear cannot make up for technique nor can technique cover for all gear, only some.
__________________
Penn State Paintball, Alumni #38
☆☆☆ The Departed© #38 ☆☆☆
Erie Fusion (original) #38

"Should you covet what you cannot afford. Maketh more money."
orionz06 is offline  
Old 09-28-2012, 07:03 PM #1787
Treghc
 
 
Treghc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Seattle
Treghc is a Supporting Member
Treghc is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
Treghc is a Forum Captain
Again, we're discussing tone, not the subjectivity of what sounds good and/or appealing as a musical piece.

Tone is determined by a single note. That's it. There is no composition. No arrangement. No scales are involved with tone. There is no succession of notes. Tone is, quite literally "a sound in terms of its quality, pitch, origin or power."

http://www.yourdictionary.com/tone
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tone

Tone is nothing more than a sonic quality. It's what differentiates the sound of a middle A on a Fender Deluxe Reverb from a middle A on a Mesa Dual Rectifier on the overdrive channel.
__________________
“But men, they say a lot of foolish things. In the end, the only words I can find to believe in are mine." - Joe

Tarsier Slave


We are Sapien

Last edited by Treghc : 09-28-2012 at 07:06 PM.
Treghc is offline  
Old 09-28-2012, 08:04 PM #1788
orionz06
Turtle Wrangler
 
orionz06's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Pittsburgh,PA
Annual Supporting Member
orionz06 is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
orionz06 is an NCPA player
orionz06 is Immortal
orionz06 supports DLX Technology
I did not disagree, I expounded on the idea that gear can and does make a difference without using the word "tone" because people get all assed up over it.
__________________
Penn State Paintball, Alumni #38
☆☆☆ The Departed© #38 ☆☆☆
Erie Fusion (original) #38

"Should you covet what you cannot afford. Maketh more money."
orionz06 is offline  
Old 09-28-2012, 09:15 PM #1789
shakeyjonez
In GOD We Trust!
 
shakeyjonez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: One Nation Under GOD!
NEW AMP DAY!!!

Just scored this 1965 Gibson GA-75L Recording Amp. Best sounding class A amp I've ever played through.









__________________
Holy
Kids


"Love those who hurt you the most, because they are probably the ones closest to you.” ― Nikki Sixx
shakeyjonez is offline  
Old 09-28-2012, 10:46 PM #1790
Ultiplaya11
ASMC Elite
 
Ultiplaya11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Nor*Jers 973
Ultiplaya11 donated to help Peyton Trent
Ultiplaya11 supports Team VICIOUS
Ultiplaya11 supports Team VICIOUS
Ultiplaya11 supports Team VICIOUS
Ultiplaya11 has achieved Level 7 in PbNation Pursuit
Ultiplaya11 is one of the top 100 posters on PbNation
Ultiplaya11 is Immortal
__________________

OLD Feedback

VICIOUS DSS Paintball
Annual Supporting Member Council Elite
Ultiplaya11 is offline  
Old 09-28-2012, 11:14 PM #1791
komodo_117
Plague Upon Your Hissing
 
komodo_117's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pennsylvania, The 814
Quote:
Originally Posted by Treghc View Post
Again, we're discussing tone, not the subjectivity of what sounds good and/or appealing as a musical piece.

Tone is determined by a single note. That's it. There is no composition. No arrangement. No scales are involved with tone. There is no succession of notes. Tone is, quite literally "a sound in terms of its quality, pitch, origin or power."

http://www.yourdictionary.com/tone
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/tone

Tone is nothing more than a sonic quality. It's what differentiates the sound of a middle A on a Fender Deluxe Reverb from a middle A on a Mesa Dual Rectifier on the overdrive channel.
I think one thing you're forgetting though is also the knowledge of how to properly EQ a guitar and amp as well. If you can't EQ, you're going to sound like **** through a good amp even if you have some pretty great chops.

It's not always a straight fingerwork vs. equipment argument. It's knowing how to set your gear towards the way you play to get the quirks and nuances in your sound that makes it YOUR sound. At that point, variations in gear only really contributes to structure of distortion, and range of its EQ. If your "sound" operates in an EQ range most amps can cover comfortably, then yes, you'll sound pretty much the same on anything.

*EDIT* Shakey, welcome to the bad-*** Gibson club. I don't think I've ever seen one of those. That handwired board makes me a little hard.
__________________
Jlausen: "Think of what 90% of people do on PCP.

They rip their skin off and rape anything in sight. Basically a Shel Silverstein poem."




XBL - xStonedCrow

Last edited by komodo_117 : 09-28-2012 at 11:18 PM.
komodo_117 is offline  
Old 09-29-2012, 01:37 AM #1792
shakeyjonez
In GOD We Trust!
 
shakeyjonez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: One Nation Under GOD!
I traded a Chinese Peavey hollowbody and a Chinese Fender Mustang III combo for it and the guy nearly took my arm off he was so happy about it. All it needed was some new power tubes. I swapped em out when I got home and was floored with how good it sounded. If I can get some free time I'll set it up in the studio and make a recording of how it sounds. I'm pretty stoked about it.
__________________
Holy
Kids


"Love those who hurt you the most, because they are probably the ones closest to you.” ― Nikki Sixx
shakeyjonez is offline  
Old 09-29-2012, 12:16 PM #1793
komodo_117
Plague Upon Your Hissing
 
komodo_117's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pennsylvania, The 814
Just keep quiet about it. We don't need any more people than there is already knowing how awesome old Gibsons are. Gotta keep them prices low.

But really, I want to hear it. Link those channels and crank that volume.

What wattage is it? Also you lucked out with how clean that tolex is. Mine has that same exact covering and its pretty much impossible to clean the dust out of the "grain".
__________________
Jlausen: "Think of what 90% of people do on PCP.

They rip their skin off and rape anything in sight. Basically a Shel Silverstein poem."




XBL - xStonedCrow

Last edited by komodo_117 : 09-29-2012 at 12:19 PM.
komodo_117 is offline  
Old 09-29-2012, 02:21 PM #1794
shakeyjonez
In GOD We Trust!
 
shakeyjonez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: One Nation Under GOD!
It is clean for a 47 year old amp. The tolex has a few bad spots that I fixed in the pic with photoshop. Same for a small hole in the grill cloth. It had some dirt in the tolex around the handle but it came off easy with some 409 cleaner. Luckily it came with a vinyl cover to protect it. It's running at 25 class A watts via a pair of 6L6GCs. It's not terribly loud but easily loud enough to cover up a drummer. It's got a monitor/line out for daisy chaining to another amp or the house if more balls are needed.
__________________
Holy
Kids


"Love those who hurt you the most, because they are probably the ones closest to you.” ― Nikki Sixx
shakeyjonez is offline  
Old 10-01-2012, 09:21 AM #1795
Worr, the wee tot. (Banned)
WTF am I reading?!
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Berlin
What are they truly worth as a daily driver amp, or are they not something you want to use all the time?

My Crate keeps drifting in and out of bliss. Sounds great, then after about an hour of being turned on it starts breathing harder than Michael Moore after about 8 Big Macs. The preamp hisses a bit like it's a blown cap, but I looked and don't see anything physically wrong with the board. It could be related to the power cord I need to replace, some idiot in my basement either stepped on it, or flat out cut the ground off so it would fit in a standard outlet -.-

That's the trouble when you have 4 guitar amps, 3 cabinets, bass amp + cab, 3 guitars, a drum kit, and a pretty massive array of pedals sitting out in your basement with people over almost every day. It's a "leave your gear at your own risk" situation, I'm surprised nothing has ever been stolen or busted beyond repair...at least I have people to play with now though.

Edit: On the subject of tone vs. ability vs. fingers, if you put Hendrix on an Orange vs. his Marshall or Fender, his tone would be different. IIRC I read something about Jimi using Orange amps for a while, then switching back because he couldn't dial them in like he wanted...he also spent hours and hours tuning his guitar, and used mismatched strings to further tweak his tone and keep things in tune better. Guy probably isn't the best example here, but you get what I'm saying. Anyone can buy expensive gear to achieve great tone, but the tone is worthless without any talent or desire to improve. Buckethead is a good example of this, there are recordings on YouTube of him using a JVM series Marshall instead of his triple recs, and his tone isn't right.

His ability is unmistakable, but the additional treble/mid and less grittiness isn't "right."

Last edited by Worr, the wee tot. : 10-01-2012 at 09:31 AM.
Worr, the wee tot. is offline  
Old 10-01-2012, 09:57 AM #1796
Sunshine86
Equality 7-2521
 
Sunshine86's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Washington DC
I need a Mustang with a set of Wide Range HBs.
Sunshine86 is offline  
Old 10-01-2012, 10:50 AM #1797
Treghc
 
 
Treghc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Seattle
Treghc is a Supporting Member
Treghc is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
Treghc is a Forum Captain
Quote:
Originally Posted by Worr, the wee tot. View Post
Anyone can buy expensive gear to achieve great tone, but the tone is worthless without any talent or desire to improve.
Pretty much it. Tone is a gear thing more than anything, but it doesn't matter how good your tone is if you can't play well. I've simply been trying to make these two things distinct from one another.
__________________
“But men, they say a lot of foolish things. In the end, the only words I can find to believe in are mine." - Joe

Tarsier Slave


We are Sapien
Treghc is offline  
Old 10-01-2012, 11:05 AM #1798
obsesedwithpb_15
 
 
obsesedwithpb_15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
obsesedwithpb_15 owns a Planet Eclipse Etek
obsesedwithpb_15 supports Team VICIOUS
obsesedwithpb_15 is for the Gunfight
Pictures as promised. Just quick shots. I'll try to get some better ones later. There is fret buzz on the top 3 strings but ive let id get accustomed to the temp and humidity for a few days now and adjusted the truss rod a quarter turn yesterday, ill see how it is today and make more adjustments as needed. The actions is good so i didn't want to raise it any more.

It sounds great though, very clean crunch on the bridge pickup, very hot and thick neck pickup and a nix of the 2 in the middle position. It cleans up nice for blues with a roll of the volume knob. I have to say that i am extremely happy with this guitar and case for only $305! Rock On!


__________________
"If your still in control, it just means your not going fast enough"
obsesedwithpb_15 is offline  
Old 10-01-2012, 05:21 PM #1799
shakeyjonez
In GOD We Trust!
 
shakeyjonez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: One Nation Under GOD!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Worr, the wee tot. View Post
What are they truly worth as a daily driver amp, or are they not something you want to use all the time?

My Crate keeps drifting in and out of bliss. Sounds great, then after about an hour of being turned on it starts breathing harder than Michael Moore after about 8 Big Macs. The preamp hisses a bit like it's a blown cap, but I looked and don't see anything physically wrong with the board. It could be related to the power cord I need to replace, some idiot in my basement either stepped on it, or flat out cut the ground off so it would fit in a standard outlet -.-

That's the trouble when you have 4 guitar amps, 3 cabinets, bass amp + cab, 3 guitars, a drum kit, and a pretty massive array of pedals sitting out in your basement with people over almost every day. It's a "leave your gear at your own risk" situation, I'm surprised nothing has ever been stolen or busted beyond repair...at least I have people to play with now though.

Edit: On the subject of tone vs. ability vs. fingers, if you put Hendrix on an Orange vs. his Marshall or Fender, his tone would be different. IIRC I read something about Jimi using Orange amps for a while, then switching back because he couldn't dial them in like he wanted...he also spent hours and hours tuning his guitar, and used mismatched strings to further tweak his tone and keep things in tune better. Guy probably isn't the best example here, but you get what I'm saying. Anyone can buy expensive gear to achieve great tone, but the tone is worthless without any talent or desire to improve. Buckethead is a good example of this, there are recordings on YouTube of him using a JVM series Marshall instead of his triple recs, and his tone isn't right.

His ability is unmistakable, but the additional treble/mid and less grittiness isn't "right."
It's going to be my daily driver. After using it at practice last Sat. there is no question. It bested my lead guitarist's original 65 Blackface Deluxe. The Deluxe however does have reverb which I really like but I'll live without it. I've got to get a ATA case for this thing ASAP.

Being a singer I have to disagree with your definition of tone. The tone of my voice doesn't come from a machine.

Quote:
Originally Posted by obsesedwithpb_15 View Post
Pictures as promised. Just quick shots. I'll try to get some better ones later. There is fret buzz on the top 3 strings but ive let id get accustomed to the temp and humidity for a few days now and adjusted the truss rod a quarter turn yesterday, ill see how it is today and make more adjustments as needed. The actions is good so i didn't want to raise it any more.

It sounds great though, very clean crunch on the bridge pickup, very hot and thick neck pickup and a nix of the 2 in the middle position. It cleans up nice for blues with a roll of the volume knob. I have to say that i am extremely happy with this guitar and case for only $305! Rock On!
Very nice LP. I'd imagine the neck will come back after the guitar comes up to temperature. Play it for 30 mins or so and get it good and warm in your hands before you change it. It's not uncommon to have to tweak the truss rod when the seasons change. You'll prob need to loosen it a 1/4 turn if you're getting buzz. This is common on new guitars with low action. I bet it plays great. If those pickups are crunchy pats then that's one mean machine.
__________________
Holy
Kids


"Love those who hurt you the most, because they are probably the ones closest to you.” ― Nikki Sixx
shakeyjonez is offline  
Old 10-02-2012, 11:13 AM #1800
komodo_117
Plague Upon Your Hissing
 
komodo_117's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pennsylvania, The 814
Anyone wanna help me figure out the chords to this? I'm retarded when it comes to chords, much less figuring them out by ear. And it doesn't help that she disregards recording quality for the most part. Also, I know a lot of her stuff from her second album is all in D Standard, but I can't tell if this is too. Really want to learn this though.

__________________
Jlausen: "Think of what 90% of people do on PCP.

They rip their skin off and rape anything in sight. Basically a Shel Silverstein poem."




XBL - xStonedCrow
komodo_117 is offline  
Old 10-02-2012, 11:27 AM #1801
Treghc
 
 
Treghc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Seattle
Treghc is a Supporting Member
Treghc is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
Treghc is a Forum Captain
Quote:
Originally Posted by shakeyjonez View Post
Being a singer I have to disagree with your definition of tone. The tone of my voice doesn't come from a machine.
That's because you're physical makeup is the source of the sound. The shape of your vocal chords are doing what the amplifier and speakers do to your electrical signal put out by your guitar.

But yes, speakers and an amp will also change the tone of your voice. As will EQ'ing, doubling, reverberation, condensing, etc. The main source of the sound is your vocal chords though, so they are the most responsible. Just like the main source of sound with an electric guitar is your amplifier pushed out of your speakers. Your vocal chords make the sound. Your amp and speaker setup is what makes the sound for your electric guitar.

You're comparing apples and oranges.
__________________
“But men, they say a lot of foolish things. In the end, the only words I can find to believe in are mine." - Joe

Tarsier Slave


We are Sapien
Treghc is offline  
Old 10-02-2012, 11:38 AM #1802
komodo_117
Plague Upon Your Hissing
 
komodo_117's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Pennsylvania, The 814
Your mom compares apples and oranges.


In her ***.
__________________
Jlausen: "Think of what 90% of people do on PCP.

They rip their skin off and rape anything in sight. Basically a Shel Silverstein poem."




XBL - xStonedCrow
komodo_117 is offline  
Old 10-02-2012, 12:40 PM #1803
Ultiplaya11
ASMC Elite
 
Ultiplaya11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: Nor*Jers 973
Ultiplaya11 donated to help Peyton Trent
Ultiplaya11 supports Team VICIOUS
Ultiplaya11 supports Team VICIOUS
Ultiplaya11 supports Team VICIOUS
Ultiplaya11 has achieved Level 7 in PbNation Pursuit
Ultiplaya11 is one of the top 100 posters on PbNation
Ultiplaya11 is Immortal
Tone, comes from your fingers
Timbre, comes from your amp, cabinet, pickups, guitar, etc.

/End of discussion.
__________________

OLD Feedback

VICIOUS DSS Paintball
Annual Supporting Member Council Elite
Ultiplaya11 is offline  
Old 10-02-2012, 12:43 PM #1804
orionz06
Turtle Wrangler
 
orionz06's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Pittsburgh,PA
Annual Supporting Member
orionz06 is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
orionz06 is an NCPA player
orionz06 is Immortal
orionz06 supports DLX Technology
Meh, **** it, it's all the same.

/discussion
__________________
Penn State Paintball, Alumni #38
☆☆☆ The Departed© #38 ☆☆☆
Erie Fusion (original) #38

"Should you covet what you cannot afford. Maketh more money."
orionz06 is offline  
Old 10-02-2012, 01:15 PM #1805
Treghc
 
 
Treghc's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Location: Seattle
Treghc is a Supporting Member
Treghc is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
Treghc is a Forum Captain
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ultiplaya11 View Post
Tone, comes from your fingers
Timbre, comes from your amp, cabinet, pickups, guitar, etc.

/End of discussion.
It's interesting how pop culture influences meanings of words.

Technically speaking, you're exactly correct. But when someone says something like "dat guitar tone", they are actually referring to the quality of that tone, which would be the timbre.
__________________
“But men, they say a lot of foolish things. In the end, the only words I can find to believe in are mine." - Joe

Tarsier Slave


We are Sapien
Treghc is offline  
Old 10-02-2012, 03:38 PM #1806
shakeyjonez
In GOD We Trust!
 
shakeyjonez's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: One Nation Under GOD!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Treghc View Post
That's because you're physical makeup is the source of the sound. The shape of your vocal chords are doing what the amplifier and speakers do to your electrical signal put out by your guitar.

But yes, speakers and an amp will also change the tone of your voice. As will EQ'ing, doubling, reverberation, condensing, etc. The main source of the sound is your vocal chords though, so they are the most responsible. Just like the main source of sound with an electric guitar is your amplifier pushed out of your speakers. Your vocal chords make the sound. Your amp and speaker setup is what makes the sound for your electric guitar.

You're comparing apples and oranges.
__________________
Holy
Kids


"Love those who hurt you the most, because they are probably the ones closest to you.” ― Nikki Sixx
shakeyjonez is offline  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump