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Old 12-10-2010, 11:10 AM #64
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Originally Posted by Horizon View Post
I think you summed it fairly well. Paintball has changed. Not just the price (actually the price is indirectly responsible for much of the change). It's a "trickle up" effect. If people playing for the first time aren't having as much fun, they, and the their friends, won't be back. It's a domino effect, just like it used to be a domino effect when people were having more fun and coming back with their friends, who in turn cam back with more friends.

The big question is, what can be done about it, if anything? Personally I blame the field owners mostly for letting things get to where it is and not recognizing they need to keep a tighter rein on things.
if the government lifted all restrictions for personal ownership and use of C4, and allowed the sale of it at walmart, would you blame the police when car bombings and suicide bomb attacks at sporting events started becoming an everyday occurrence?

have you ever reffed a game of speedball in last few years? if so, did you also ref games many years ago, when the fastest rof was that of a tricked out cocker? there is no comparison. unless you have 1 ref for every player on the field, it is virtually impossible to catch even half the hits.

the most valuable skill of a modern pro paintball player is how slick he is at wiping hits using a bunker or the ground. watch a speedball vid of a modern pro event, compare that with an event from pre-2k. what do you notice? ill give you a hint, players used to actually MOVE!

one of the most difficult shooting skills (besides snap shooting) to master back in the day was staying on target while rapidly pulling a simi-auto trigger. the faster you pulled, the less accurate you were. ramping has turned this skill into an absolute joke. there is no skill left in modern paintball, legal cheating (ramping) and illegal cheating (wiping) are the 2 core sources of all that has gone wrong with the sport of competitive paintball. both of these are a DIRECT result of the proliferation of computer controlled electronic markers.

there is only one solution. what i cant understand is why people are so blind to it when it is so blatantly obvious. ban the use of electronic markers from completive paintball.

-buddo

Last edited by paintballbudd : 12-10-2010 at 12:14 PM.
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Old 12-10-2010, 12:44 PM #65
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You are so incredibly stupid and/or inexperienced and have no idea what you're talking about.

Quote:
Originally Posted by paintballbudd View Post
have you ever reffed a game of speedball in last few years? if so, did you also ref games many years ago, when the fastest rof was that of a tricked out cocker? there is no comparison. unless you have 1 ref for every player on the field, it is virtually impossible to catch even half the hits.

I'm not sure if you're talking about recball or a tourney environment but as a recball ref I caught the majority of hits that happened I was watching one side of the field with another ref watching the opposite side.

In a tournament refs are everywhere on the field and watching the dead box/backlines, every corner, and they're laying down in the middle of the field to watch things like hits off break and the middle field.


the most valuable skill of a modern pro paintball player is how slick he is at wiping hits using a bunker or the ground. watch a speedball vid of a modern pro event, compare that with an event from pre-2k. what do you notice? ill give you a hint, players used to actually MOVE!

I'm not sure what modern pro events you're watching but at a pro level there's a lot of movement and pro players capitalize on chances and punishing mistakes. At high level if snake side is cleared out most players run to the opposing teams s1 or s2. So you must be blind or watching recball.

one of the most difficult shooting skills (besides snap shooting) to master back in the day was staying on target while rapidly pulling a simi-auto trigger. the faster you pulled, the less accurate you were. ramping has turned this skill into an absolute joke. there is no skill left in modern paintball, legal cheating (ramping) and illegal cheating (wiping) are the 2 core sources of all that has gone wrong with the sport of competitive paintball. both of these are a DIRECT result of the proliferation of computer controlled electronic markers.

Lol ramping isn't legal cheating. You want to know a huge reason ramping is used? I'll tell you. It's to prevent cheating. You ever play NPPL/USPL? Everyone and their mothers has a gun that bounces to get higher rof in semi, the catch is they use as much bounce as they can get away with. In PSP everyone is shooting 12bps without much effort and as a result there isn't any cheating marker wise like there is in NPPL.

Cheating is a skill because it can be build and improved upon, but it's generally frowned upon even in major tournaments. Many people don't like it or agree with it but everyone acknowledges that people wipe when large amounts of money are at stake. Not to mention most players don't cheat unless it's a single hit no one noticed, and people usually do notice when there's almost as many refs on the fields as players and you generally get shot a few times.


there is only one solution. what i cant understand is why people are so blind to it when it is so blatantly obvious. ban the use of electronic markers from competitive paintball.

I understand why people like semi and I think it's fun as well, but I don't even know where to start about this.

-buddo
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Old 12-10-2010, 12:56 PM #66
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agreed with irish. that guys an F'ing idiot...
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Old 12-10-2010, 01:23 PM #67
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lol

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Old 12-17-2010, 03:01 PM #68
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going from electronic boards back down to mechanical would be like taking lighters away from the public and telling them they need to start rubbing sticks together to start fire.... just plain and flat out retarded haha
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Old 12-17-2010, 03:02 PM #69
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Old 12-19-2010, 10:26 PM #70
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Old 01-26-2011, 11:19 PM #71
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Half of the companies died, people stopped buying things and the companies had invested too much money w/ too little profit.
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Old 01-27-2011, 01:16 PM #72
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The problem is Paintball is marketed towards kids and younger players instead of adults now-a-days. Marketing to a group that doesn't have the money really doesn't make much sense. Paintball needs to start being marketed towards adults again. The people who do have the money to spend.
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Old 01-28-2011, 11:10 AM #73
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Paintball isn't Marketed toward adults because adults aren't the main demographic. Their age spread is 10ish - 30ish. Not many people playing paintball above that age(in comparison), and those that are, typically aren't the big money spenders. They're catering to the right people. That's not the problem.

A big problem with paintball is that it is not a spectator sport. Find me a fan of the sport that doesn't play. We don't make money selling merchandise to non-players save for a few chics apparel options. The main source of income is the players.

What needs to happen is we need to get more people in the sport. Particularly kids. There's too many *******s that don't realize how bad they're hurting our sport when they treat new players like **** to feed their egos or mask their insecurity.

Teach, participate, enjoy.
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Old 01-28-2011, 11:12 AM #74
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Btw i only skimmed through this thread so if this is repeat stuff I'm sorry.
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Old 01-28-2011, 11:46 AM #75
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as a newer paintball player, started in the last year, I have come to find that in tournament paintball there is not enough options for gameplay. we plaqy with mainly 7 man teams with every team having pretty much the exact same gameplan, now I know you can change it up but IM trying to make a comparison to a sport like football or hockey where people have different formation and positions are required to do more than just make it to the snake a CB has to know when to press coverage go 2 deep or blitz. We need bigger teams larger fields and more objective based games. I think of games like halo and COD and wonder why we dont apply game types like domination or demolition. It would require alot of reworking but lets face it people wanna play paintball mainly for the feeling of knowing how to handle yourself in a similar situation so lets use that to increase its image.
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Old 01-28-2011, 01:02 PM #76
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Quote:
Originally Posted by End Phenomenon View Post
as a newer paintball player, started in the last year, I have come to find that in tournament paintball there is not enough options for gameplay. we plaqy with mainly 7 man teams with every team having pretty much the exact same gameplan, now I know you can change it up but IM trying to make a comparison to a sport like football or hockey where people have different formation and positions are required to do more than just make it to the snake a CB has to know when to press coverage go 2 deep or blitz. We need bigger teams larger fields and more objective based games. I think of games like halo and COD and wonder why we dont apply game types like domination or demolition. It would require alot of reworking but lets face it people wanna play paintball mainly for the feeling of knowing how to handle yourself in a similar situation so lets use that to increase its image.
That's why there are different field layouts, to mix things up. I played hockey and football, both fun but those are whole different sports. I would have to compare paintball to like snowboarding or motocross.... You are doing the same thing over and over again but on a new track or run. That is how paintball is, you do the same thing for the most part with some differences, but it is just on a different field.

Bigger fields/teams... go play scenario and there are scenario tournaments if that is what you are into. You cant make speedball fields much bigger because they are already harder to ref and control as it is, and it makes games go faster. Faster games means not as much paint and makes tournaments not take even longer to play. Also, sounds like you are playing NPPL style seeing how that is the only one with 7 man... however there is PSP, X-ball, and more 5 or 3-man formats you can play. They are pretty different and field styles are different as well. You just can find one you like or alternate between them.

Just as a CB in football has to recognize plays, possibly do man/zone coverage, a paintball player has to do the same thing in a sense. You have to recognize what the other team is doing, analyze it, and react to it. You many have to cover just one man with a lane of paint or maybe just a zone. Paintball really does take a lot of strategy, and the better you get at it, the better paintball player you will be.
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Old 01-28-2011, 02:11 PM #77
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That's why there are different field layouts, to mix things up. I played hockey and football, both fun but those are whole different sports. I would have to compare paintball to like snowboarding or motocross.... You are doing the same thing over and over again but on a new track or run. That is how paintball is, you do the same thing for the most part with some differences, but it is just on a different field.

Bigger fields/teams... go play scenario and there are scenario tournaments if that is what you are into. You cant make speedball fields much bigger because they are already harder to ref and control as it is, and it makes games go faster. Faster games means not as much paint and makes tournaments not take even longer to play. Also, sounds like you are playing NPPL style seeing how that is the only one with 7 man... however there is PSP, X-ball, and more 5 or 3-man formats you can play. They are pretty different and field styles are different as well. You just can find one you like or alternate between them.

Just as a CB in football has to recognize plays, possibly do man/zone coverage, a paintball player has to do the same thing in a sense. You have to recognize what the other team is doing, analyze it, and react to it. You many have to cover just one man with a lane of paint or maybe just a zone. Paintball really does take a lot of strategy, and the better you get at it, the better paintball player you will be.
nicely said
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Old 01-28-2011, 03:16 PM #78
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Originally Posted by steve_81 View Post
The problem is Paintball is marketed towards kids and younger players instead of adults now-a-days. Marketing to a group that doesn't have the money really doesn't make much sense. Paintball needs to start being marketed towards adults again. The people who do have the money to spend.
lol, dude tek pee bee said that.
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Old 01-28-2011, 03:40 PM #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by End Phenomenon
as a newer paintball player, started in the last year, I have come to find that in tournament paintball there is not enough options for gameplay. we plaqy with mainly 7 man teams with every team having pretty much the exact same gameplan, now I know you can change it up but IM trying to make a comparison to a sport like football or hockey where people have different formation and positions are required to do more than just make it to the snake a CB has to know when to press coverage go 2 deep or blitz. We need bigger teams larger fields and more objective based games. I think of games like halo and COD and wonder why we dont apply game types like domination or demolition. It would require alot of reworking but lets face it people wanna play paintball mainly for the feeling of knowing how to handle yourself in a similar situation so lets use that to increase its image.
What you're describing isn't the problem. They have what you're talking about. It's called scenario games. The problem is that this isn't a spectator sport. Think of halo for example. Even though it's not a spectator sport it's a video game which has franchises and a VERY widespread fan base. People can buy just the one game and okay it any time they want. They don't need to keep buying paint, air, and entry. This is an expensive sport to play for most people. When times are tough like now people seek cheaper forms of entertainment. This is not one of them.
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Old 01-28-2011, 03:44 PM #80
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trying to encourage conversation on the topic, so in refernece to the boarding yes they have different layouts but the amount of different spins grabs and jibs they can do are extensive, I really havent expierenced or seen anything like that in paintball, if i am wrong about why people play please correct but with that as my grounding I honestly think that somthing right between speedball and scenario and good advertiser will tell you to show the people what they want. Currently anyone who has a slight inclination to paintball gets discouraged becasue the only thing televised is speedball, i.e. alot of my new friends to paintball go out there with the idea of bunkers and forts not airups, to myself paintball is based off of warfare so if Im gonna be doing it professionally it only makes sense that I know how to leapfrog or breach a room, pball has an avid speedball following but unfortunalty I find speedballers dont want to change the fundamentals to the game, Its hard to build a house if you dont have a good foundation. Also another idea I would like to throw out there is I think alot more intrest and technique could be invilved simply by adding different levels to the playing field (no not how good you are at playing I mean like a 2nd floor watch tower anything like that.
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Old 01-28-2011, 05:12 PM #81
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lol, dude tek pee bee said that.
did he? I think it's safe to say nobody knows or can agree on why Paintball is the way it is today. Therefore nothing will ever get fixed.
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Old 01-29-2011, 01:47 AM #82
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I'm not trying to be mean, rude, or anything other than honest... But End Phenomenon is making roll laughing...

Here is what you're missing:

Paintball has all those things you're referring to but they are contained within what we like to call scenario games. Speedball is different. Its fast paced, easy to get exciting footage of, and has a generally clear cut goal to the game. That is why it makes it on TV and woodsball/ scenario games don't. They are hard to film and because of that, its very difficult to televise them. Many fields, such as my local Paintball Charleston, offer your 'war game' type play with castles, forts, towns, etc. But not all have the money to build something to that degree.
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Old 01-29-2011, 07:52 PM #83
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yea playing paintball in canada sucks trust me xD
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Old 01-29-2011, 10:57 PM #84
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I live 15 miles at the MOST away from Firstcallpaintballs warehosue so I dont really see much of a huge price jump because everything is right THERE no price jumping because of transporting the goods and am on a first name basis with virtually everybody in the warehouse, but there is no "one" thing that is killing the growth of paintball, it's a mix of EVERYTHING.

People buying used for cheaper prices versus putting money into the businesses companies, tournament price inflation atop the already economy inflated prices, the economy itself, people going to college, joining military, lack of positive publicity(Hell Tosh.o season 3 started out with a vid of a dude getting shot square in the eye, granted granted the show was funny as hell), monopolies already set up. They all roll together to make paintballs growth one ****ball to wipe up.

Some of if not most cant be fixed and that's something we cant help. All we can do is clean our gear drive to the field and play the sport we love end of story.
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