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Old 09-04-2010, 05:18 PM #1
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Thread of the Week: Bonus Balling

Letís try for a thread that people can really sink their teeth into, even if they want to make a new name so no one knows who they are (haha).

Overshooting & Bonus Balling. Is there a difference? Does it have a place in tournament ball? Is it unsportsmanlike? Worse, even? Or is it just part of the game.

Obviously (well, obviously for those who know), this stems from the NEXL and NEPL where some have alleged that NEH overshoots. And some have even alleged that it is systemic, and not individual and isolated events.

Iíll say that NEH tries to calibrate for national competition. In national competition, you shoot people more than you would at local competition. NEXL (and NEPL) teams are calibrated for local play, wherein you shoot less. So what we think of as Ďbusiness as usualí other teams may think of as beyond the pale. Which isnít to say we donít bonus ball or overshoot, because Iím sure that happens, too. But because we are who we are, people sometimes cry foul after 3 balls

Iím just looking to hear what people think about the topic of overshooting and bonus balling in general and NEH in specific.

And Dan (fu2n), we can all pretty much guess at your thoughts.
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Old 09-04-2010, 05:46 PM #2
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While it's obvious that the players on the Hurricanes, who for the vast majority have just come out of playing locally, have progressed their game quite a bit in the past 6-7 months....I don't know if I would say 2 national events this season qualifies the overshooting as "business as usual", it's just Xball and how it's played. I don't think of any of your guys, and think "over-shooting" really comes to mind. I think that you guys, much like most playing in the NEXL...will just shoot, until the person your shooting at walks away from their bunker or away from where they were headed. I did get a chance to watch the finals match against Bloodline though, and watched someone (not sure who) put Gabe Ricard to the ground pretty much after it was abundantly clear that he was walking away from his bunker. I remember saying to myself that it was strange, because we (shipyard) have played you a few times this season I think in the NEXL and don't really remember anyone either overshooting myself, or anyone on the team complaining of being overshot....so we've had no problems.

I'd say that the overshooting itself is more "business as usual" really in xball in general , so it doesn't really seem all to extreme. I expect to be shot a couple times as I'm walking away, to ensure that I don't either A) get put back in...or B) come away clean.

Also, if I can put a couple in your pack as your getting out / walking off....I see no harm in that. Gives you something to clean for 2 minutes. It's a game, games involove strategy. It may not be a huge one....but it's the little things you do in the end that count.
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Old 09-04-2010, 06:32 PM #3
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Overshooting happens. Its part of the game. I never intentionally overshoot someone(unless they have really done something to piss me off). I know that a lot of times I overshoot someone not realizing that they are already out. It happens and I'm quick to apologize after the game.

I do not see where your coming from that because you are playing in a national tournament that overshooting a bit more is acceptable. 1-Some local tournaments are just as big if not bigger in some divisions than nationals. 2-bonus balling is bonus balling no matter the tournament.

I do feel anything more than 3 balls is unacceptable and unsportsmanlike if they player has obviously called himself out and a penalty should be assessed. But thats just my opinion.
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Old 09-04-2010, 06:34 PM #4
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I overshoot people and I don't care. I don't shoot them off the field though. I don't even call it overshooting until the guy is standing up halfway to the pit still getting blasted.

If you are in your bunker or running and it seems at all possible that you may keep playing then I am still shooting. I agree with Shecki it just seems to be more of an Xball thing. Maybe it is the ramp and the pace down the field. Also like Shecki said, a couple extra in the pack is not a problem if you're still decently close to your bunker.

I played one match against you guys this year and I think I got shot less than usual. I am pretty sure the reason for this is that we got swept off the field, but that is besides the point.

I will say that I saw one of your seven man games at event 3. A guy came down to do the last guy. The guy who got bunkered was *****ing about getting overshot even though he kept his gun up shooting after he was dead. If your gun is pointing at the person that shot you, you have no business complaining about the balls you are still going to take.


Quote:
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I do not see where your coming from that because you are playing in a national tournament that overshooting a bit more is acceptable.
.
It is more acceptable.
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Old 09-04-2010, 07:22 PM #5
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Being a player that has played nationally and locally in 7 man and xball, overshooting and/or bonus balling are clearly part of the game. I have bonus balled people because you cheated me in the point before, you bonus balled some of my teammates or in the most clear case when a player continues to play after he is shot or the last player left. If you cheat someone and get away with it and its clear, I will bonus ball you next point. For example, look at other professional sports, if a pitcher is hitting your players and a player slides into second spikes up and kills your short stop, you can bet 100% of the time, your pitcher is going to throw at the opposing player in the next at bat. In paintball, you just have a much quicker and easier opportunity to get your payback. I have noticed in the NEXL/ NEPL this year that players do tend to think they are getting overshot when they are not and have clearly not played national paintball where it happens every point in xball or every game in 7 man. The last player alive is always going to get overshot especially in the Hurricanes case because most of the time they are up on bodies and pushing and pinching the last players out like any good players are going to do. Bottomline, paintball is a sport that involves getting shot by paintballs, man up or leave the game we all love because whining about bonus balling/overshooting is not going to get New England paintball anywhere.

P.S. If you do not want to get bonus balled/overshot, win the point/game/match. The winning team has a much less likely chance of getting bonus balled/overshot in all cases. Make them wear it instead of you, simple as that.

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Old 09-04-2010, 07:35 PM #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Shecki View Post
I don't know if I would say 2 national events this season qualifies the overshooting as "business as usual
It's a mindset thing, 2 national events.... 15 to 20-ish practices.
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Old 09-04-2010, 07:57 PM #7
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bonus balling- usually something that can be qualified as not exactly intentional. if a player is shot out and you dont exactly know it yet and give them a few more then its really just part of the game and i think weve all done it out of fun. plus especially in xball or practices you have to do it to get the eliminated player to stop from playing on.

overshooting- this is something that is usually done in a practice or events to beat down the other team. it is done out of hate and to send a messege like dont **** with us. you really just want to put them in the ground with no mercy. it is done with bad intentions and sometimes you need that mind set to over come the other guys on the field, so yeah it is needed

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Old 09-04-2010, 08:23 PM #8
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Bonus balling is part of the game. The only reason to cry foul is to try and draw some sort of penalty. Honestly, I think more so in xball overshooting can come into play. The more paint someone has on their body, gun, gear etc means its going to take that person longer to get back on the field for the next point. I'm not saying put someone into the ground but pretty much its to be expected. We play paintball, it comes with the territory.
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Old 09-04-2010, 10:52 PM #9
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Its ramping.....if there's a few people alive your prob going to get more the. Three balls. Its part of the game. If you can't take it go play golf
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Old 09-05-2010, 04:25 AM #10
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Whether you think its part of the game or not it just sucks getting bonus-balled or over shot. As long as it isnt anything drastic or obscene then I'm Cool with it, its the speed of the game and sometimes you dont see the gusy hand in the air or what not. If you are still on the field or walking behind it and take a few extra shots it may be because you just caught someone's eye and they didnt see you were out they turned and fired. Ive done it and its happened to me, the thing that gets me is when a player knows a player is out and just opens up on him, or just takes that one cheap shot. and if that happens to me im liable to take a swing at you, haha, ive done it before in a tournament to a shipyard team. so over shooting or bonusballing is fine with me to a point. over that look out until that, get over it and play some paintball
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Old 09-05-2010, 08:26 AM #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Peppermintman24 View Post
bonus balling- usually something that can be qualified as not exactly intentional. if a player is shot out and you dont exactly know it yet and give them a few more then its really just part of the game and i think weve all done it out of fun. plus especially in xball or practices you have to do it to get the eliminated player to stop from playing on.

overshooting- this is something that is usually done in a practice or events to beat down the other team. it is done out of hate and to send a messege like dont **** with us. you really just want to put them in the ground with no mercy. it is done with bad intentions and sometimes you need that mind set to over come the other guys on the field, so yeah it is needed
If this is the definition of Bonus Balling and Overshooting then....

I'm ok with Bonus Balling - it's the idea of sending a message for a past sin. There are times and places for it. However, it to is a crime and you can get punished for it - don't whine about it when you get caught - just know you sent the message.

I'm NOT ok with overshooting. There simply is never at time when having three guys run someone down (who is already out) and each put 10 into him or her. Or run to bunker someone and then turn back toward that player (as you've run past) to shoot him some more. I've kicked players out for it, and I'll continue to kick players out for it.
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Old 09-05-2010, 08:39 AM #12
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Old 09-05-2010, 10:44 AM #13
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Everytime i tell myself, "im going to overshoot the **** out of these guys" i always forget when the time comes. I think it's because i get too anxious and i feel that when im putting those extra balls on a dead guy i will miss my window of opportunity on a live player haha. But seriously, I played AXBL for 2 years and 15.2 is really fast. I've seen bonus balling, and malicious overshooting over and over and I'm one of the last you will hear complain about that stuff. During our 2 NEXL matches against NEH i did notice that there was some overshooting. NEH has good paintball players. I would expect any good paintball player to know when to stop there gun from shooting. The only instance i noticed of this would be when there was only one guy left on the field. The player would get shot by a run through or cross field then as they stand up the other guns on the field rip them up and down the back. On the other hand, NEH has good communication and was winning games 5 and 4 alive for the most part. Meaning when you have that many guns all converged on the last player there is bound to be overshooting. Plus i also noticed other teams would get 4 or 5 hits and say "they overshot me like 20 times." Then expect the refs to do something. So maybe since teams were getting smashed the only thing left to complain about is an overshooting call. I know we had a team saying we were overshooting them in 7man (yeah, 7man w/o ramp) i looked over at the "overshot" player and he had barely any hits. So does NEH overshoot? Yeah ofcourse they do, they are aggressive and are trying to make it in D1. I think people need to stop *****ing about overshooting. It's paintball, know when you are coming to the field you are going to experience pain.
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Old 09-05-2010, 11:03 AM #14
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If its a 4 on 1 you have all 4 guys shooting 12.5 at you. If the person gets shot and stands up you have 4 lanes of paint going at you. Think about all the paint thats in the air before your stop pulling the trigger. . Your going to get shot with extra balls.

I agree with jeff on the fact that at national events teams are shooting more paint so you get shot and shoot people more times then at local events. We practice the way we need to play at the national events. We even play this way against each other. Ive seen people at the nexl get shot 2-3 times and complain to a reff about over shooting. At the national level the reff would just laugh at you and tell you the guns are ramping and to go to your pit.

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Old 09-05-2010, 11:19 AM #15
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TBO - No doubt - 4 guys shooting at 1 player - that one player is going to get shot a bunch.

However - 4 guys running down the last guy and everyone shooting that player 10+ times is not called for.

Just m opinion
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Old 09-10-2010, 10:25 AM #16
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i would argue that bonus balling is far worse then overshooting.

in many cases a player can get overshot by axident. it is not one players choice to overshoot someone. it usually happens when there is one guy left or when a player gets shot cross field right before they get bunkered by a different guy. in both cases the "team" overshoots them and not one player.

bonus balling is blatently on purpose and is a concious thing done by a live player shooting a known dead player. its like turning your gun on a guy walking towards the dead box.
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Old 09-10-2010, 10:44 AM #17
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I think in order to properly evaluate everyone's feedback we need to have one definition of Bonus Balling and one for Overshooting. BJ's response seems to make Overshooting sound like it is an accident. There are times when players get shot extra and it's accidental - I don't call that overshooting though - that's part of the game. You get eliminated and stand up in a stream - to bad. You get shot across field a few seconds before you get bunkered - to bad.

In my opinion Bonus Balling is done from a distance - with the one exception being that guy running down the field after he's shot - you shoot him more to tell him - "Don't do that again".

Overshooting - generally is up close and personal.
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Old 09-10-2010, 11:57 AM #18
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They are the same thing.

Overshooting is the technical term Bonus Balling is slang. Overshooting is a penalty enforced at the refs discretion 100% of the time. There is not an amount of breaks that needs to be on a person in the rule book in order for a penalty to be enforced.

It does seem that the referees at national events tend to call overshooting less than at the local events but then again local events are catering to newer, less experienced players.

I personally think that overshooting is a self policing, if someone does it to you, you do it to them next time you get a chance. Don't whine about it, it makes you look like a ______. That being said I don't think there is any place for it at practice. When two teams are trying to get better it only creates hot heads and makes it harder for teams to concentrate on improving. At events it definitely can be an advantage as it intimidates and frustrates the other team.
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Old 09-10-2010, 01:08 PM #19
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I tend to agree (they're one in the same) - however, I think there are two classes of the assult:

1 - done with intent to send a message - a few extra on the way off to say "I saw you try an cheat me", etc...

or

2 - done will intent to cause pain - running a train on some poor bastard who's already face down and dead in the snake.
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Old 09-10-2010, 01:21 PM #20
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I think another thread topic can skew from this one...morals in paintball strategies:

examples:
-counter coaching
-bonus balling
-tatics to slow the other team down in the pits
i.e. shoot pods laying on the ground making them have to clean them....
(an aside to this last one...we saw a team during D2 finals take time to go and collect all the pods on their side of the field (even though they were the other teams pods who just played on that end) and then proceed to throw the gathered bunch into their own pit...or in other words STEALING pods lol)
-shooting at netting where coaches are...etc
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Old 09-10-2010, 02:34 PM #21
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Quote:
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I personally think that overshooting is a self policing, if someone does it to you, you do it to them next time you get a chance. Don't whine about it, it makes you look like a ______. That being said I don't think there is any place for it at practice. When two teams are trying to get better it only creates hot heads and makes it harder for teams to concentrate on improving.
agreed
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