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Old 12-02-2010, 11:23 PM #400
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I am going to agree. I will also say that I have not been a regular player out there. But I have been in the sport for a few years now. Love the sport. I also have two kids that are just getting into paintball. They are very amped and dieing to play. But the idea of paying 60 just to step on to the field. Plus the air and paint!!! That is just to much! So we will just have to wait tell summer and play at Glenrock and Douglas.
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Old 12-02-2010, 11:55 PM #401
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Nick I agree with you my friend. As I said, I am willing to pay $20 on a weekend (with a big group of players) when I will get more than 2 hours if I choose providing it is an air bunker field. I love to play as much as every other PB Junkie that has survived the wyoming challenges for the last 15 years. We are strong and will continue to survive.
As far as the capped/no ramping, none of us are upset about it. We were actually expecting it. However, what does suck is the way it was implemented. We heard about the "no ramping" through a bunch of whispers. It was never posted and Deadeye never came out and announced it. Some posted rules would be nice. In that same sense, I didn't know there was a set field FPS of 280. I found out by overhearing Dave tell his boys while we were using OUR OWN CHRONOS. Rules are rules and I or any of the other guys have no problem following them. Just post them and make sure everybody knows it. Don't just assume everyone knows. I played at 295 fps for the whole time until I overheard Dave. I was breaking a rule I didn't even know about. That bugs me.
Those that really know me know that my biggest thrill is to see new people get into the sport and stay with the same enthusiasm as the rest of us. Hell, at one time I owned and maintained 12 markers to lend people for free just to get them exposed to the sport. So I am cool with a cap on the BPS, I wouldn't mind ramping at a low BPS like PSP uses but it isn't a deal breaker. The coolest thing about buying a high end marker is using it's technology. But if it is going to run new players off I won't do it.
Deadeye, we are here to support you. Maybe consider a discounted rate of the origninal $10 on Wednesdays since you close at nine and most of us work until 5 or 6 leaving us with about 2 hours to play after you consider traveling time and getting gear set up after we get there. Please give us some feedback.
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Old 12-03-2010, 12:21 AM #402
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I totally agree T a set of rules needs to be posted, and have to chrono to get on the field might be a good idea, like nppl used to do. I know this is a pain some times but this ensures that everyone is at the field FPS.

Along this line without a field chrono how fast are the rentals shooting? Have they ever been checked?
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Old 12-03-2010, 10:50 AM #403
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Looks like Deadeye is pissed and isn't going to talk with any of us. I just checked his site and he took down all of our pictures and pulled down all the links to Tournament sign ups and team pictures and in his open play dates section there are no longer any wednesdays posted.

This is not what I wanted to happen. Why can't we just have an open channel of communication.
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Old 12-03-2010, 01:04 PM #404
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Robert we would like to get your input
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Old 12-03-2010, 01:26 PM #405
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LET'S GET REAL: Wednesday night tournements were set up for YOU by YOU. Any rules you wanted would have been suggested and put in place by YOU. It was up to YOU to make sure all players were informed. Dead-Eye merely provided a place out of the weather for you to play.
The only time the $10.00 entry fee came close to covering the fuel cost of heating and lighting the arena was when there were more than 10 players paying. The rest would come out of my pocket. With the increase in the price of fuel, I would have to dig deeper in my own pocket to provide you with playtime.I am truly amazed that some of you felt that $10.00 was too much to pay for the four hours set aside for you to play. Are you kidding me?
It's ironic that some of you believe I don't accept outside input. Dead-Eye did it's best to accomodate your ideas i.e. more lighting, sup-air field, larger safety zone etc. These were not put in place by my own ideas, as the groups that come out for parties etc have been thrilled with the field just the way it was.
As you have made it clear by your comments that you are no longer interested in supporting YOUR Wed. night tournement idea, with the necessary price increase, Dead-Eye regrets to inform you that we will no longer be hosting Wed. night tournements. Feel free to call and reserve a time slot if you would like to bring a group out and play during these cold winter months. The new rates are as follows: $15.00/day rate $20.00/evening rate. Saturdays are reserved for OPEN PLAY from 10a.m. to 3p.m. at this time. Eco-friendly paintballs only.
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Old 12-03-2010, 03:03 PM #406
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I have loved playing out there and I had a good time interacting with you on personal level. However, when it came down to suggestions I always felt like you didn't want to hear it from us. Like we were trying to steal your thunder. Anytime we offered to help, you just kind of blew us off. A prime example was the first time I met you. I told you that your plexi glass was gonna break and that it might be a good idea to double it up. You told me no, it is strong enough. Well look what ended up happening a few weeks later and you had to double it up anyway and a camera man from the news almost took one to the eye. We weren't looking for freebies or any special recognition. We just wanted to help you have the most safe and functional field possible to help the sport we love prosper and grow.

You did step out on a limb and buy the Sup-air, and that was the best thing you could have done. However, you don't want to put it up until the "Tournaments" started. Well, you never set a date or a format for that to happen. Don't tell me that was up to us too? If you don't have a good idea of how they should work or how to do it then just ask. But don't expect us to organize it, run it, and rule it when it is something that we are paying for. That is why we pay to play on your field. To be able to just play, not run everything.

You have provided a nice building for us to be out of the cold in. We have appreciated that. I understand your costs going up because of heating. You have to understand the economy sucks and if we don't feel we can afford $20 entry, $40-$50 paint, $5-$10 air, plus 40 -60 minutes of travel at near $3 a gallon then that is why we were upset at $20 for 2 hours of play. Sure, you are open 4 hours, but by the time a person gets off work, gets something to eat, drives out to your establishment, unloads all the gear, makes three trips to haul it down the hill across the parking lot, sets up their marker, and waits for everbody else to do the same, then we are left with about 2 hours of play time. That is why the bulk of us felt bad about the price increase affecting Wednesday nights. In the grand scheme of things it is not really that big of an increase to one individual. But what about those that support 2-3 other players. That is a $30-$40 increase which is a big deal.

I never had a problem with $10 entry fee. I thought it was a great deal. Even on Wednesdays with the limited time frame.

Finally, that's ridiculous Robert that YOU would Expect us to set up the rules for YOUR establishment. YOU and YOUR insurance company would be the ones to declare safety standards according to YOUR policy and it's coverage. It is the field owners responsibility to be sure that safety is in place and enforced. YOU don't even have a chronograph to be sure all YOUR rentals are safe for these little kids that are playing. All that is doing is teaching them from the beginning that they can just go buy a gun at Walmart and play with it right out of the box even though it might be shooting 300+ fps which can shatter goggles and worse. We have at least made sure our own equipment is in line with industry safety standards using our own Chronos. Therefore, YOUR expectation that we inform all new players of YOUR rules is unreal. Especially when we don't know what they are.

Good luck with YOUR business. I am grateful that YOU have provided a place for new people to play that have no idea what paintball is all about. I hope YOU have many customers to help with YOUR costs.
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Old 12-03-2010, 08:37 PM #407
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I guess I missed a lot today being away from the computer. It really sucks that there is a division here. Just to make a couple of points

Robert you stated that we had 4 hours on Wed nights to play. This is true. You had to heat and light the place for 4 total hours. I agree with that. The problem is that most, if not all the players did not arrive until closer to six. This leaves 3 actual playing hours. That is if everyone is organized, and ready to go which they never are. By the time everyone is there, guns ready, we usually start playing around seven. That is only 2 hours of actual playing time. I think that is where the problem lies for some of us. Although you have to heat the building for 4 hours, the paintballers only get to play for 2. It would be nice if we could play until 10pm but I understand you not wanting to upset the neighbors. I am not sure how much fuel the generators are using but if we could get at least 6 people guaranteed to show up and they paid $10 for entry that is $60 total. I would not think that the generators would eat up 20 gallons of fuel ( $60 total / $3 per gallon ) but I could be wrong. The point is that I think we can still make this work. I have said it before and I will say it again. Although I believe $20 is steep for an entry fee, I would be willing to pay that on the weekends when I know I can get at least 4 hours of play time in.
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Old 12-03-2010, 08:58 PM #408
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Too bad im an electronics and not an economics major, hahaha. I guess if i had to tell you my opinion, its that usually 3 hours of entertainment costs 20$, but we also have another 60$ that we drop on paint, air, batteries, w/e. But Deadeye has more costs in the winter due to heating, So im really on the fence on this one. Either way its going to cost robert more in the winter. So if it was summer right now i dont think this would be that big of a deal for robert. I can see where both sides are comin from on this one, and I can understand how everyone is feeling which puts me on the fence. Either way we have to make a compromise, and the only way to do that is for everyone to keep communicating.

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Old 12-03-2010, 09:12 PM #409
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Yeah I really dont like the whole feeling right now of Robert against us or us against Robert. I like Robert. I like everyone that goes out there. I just want to find a solution that works for everyone. I understand that Robert has some expenses that need to be paid for. I also understand that $20 is a lot to charge for an entry fee alone for a couple hours of play only. There has to be something in the middle that will work for everyone.
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Old 12-03-2010, 10:32 PM #410
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It's not us against Robert. Robert is a business man who made a business decision. This is a paintball forum where opions can be voiced. people voiced their opinon. and for what ever reason Dead eye has came to the conclusion that he does not want or need our business. Maybe he never wanted the headache of wendsday night play. I don't know. But for me this is not a high enough caliber of field to pay 20.00 a night. it does not have enough to offer to make it worth that much. that is more or less a paying customer decision.
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Old 12-04-2010, 03:26 AM #411
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By communicating i meant making intelligent responses that might help resolve this issue. You gotta realize that everybody overreacted and now if you guys want somewhere nice to play in the winter then we need to get robert to compromise. nothing postive will come from insulting people, your only going to escalate the problem.

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Old 12-04-2010, 01:50 PM #412
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Come on guys, some of these comments are very counter-productive. All they will serve to do is fuel the fire, and possibly ruin it for those of us who want to see things work out.
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Old 12-04-2010, 10:58 PM #413
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRAGONHEART View Post
listen up stupid t!ts, u should get off ur knees and go back to school and change ur major to pu$$y a$$ 101

u wanna suk dik and pay those prices go ahead,that way u can paly on against the random noobs that may happen to be playin against u. me? ill wait till a new place opens or springtime comes and ill jest keep destroying u then

i tried to be nice and reasonable until i was told to "get real"
u motherf@ckers want the real me, now u got me
HATE ME
cause u dont want to face me
Come on man, really?
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Old 12-04-2010, 11:17 PM #414
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really.
anything else to say?
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Old 12-04-2010, 11:20 PM #415
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I just don't understand why you are going off on him. He is not the one that created this problem. Robert created this problem with the price increase.
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Old 12-04-2010, 11:34 PM #416
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1= i dont like him
2= he thinks our responses are unintelligent. funny cause when i think of stupidtit$ intelligence doesn't pop into mind
3= i dont like him = he talks sh!t but wont back it up
4= he plays on all the time
5= he seems to me like a kiss@ss in regards to this and is really trying to get on roberts good side for whatever reason
6= i dont like him
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Old 12-05-2010, 12:11 AM #417
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Nick Trent Ben Laz Dave Newt(not sure who this is) I think you have all had, well thought out, Positive responses. As for whos's side I'm on. I'm not on a side, I just guenuinely want this to work and to get robert and everyone else to compromise on a fair price. I see no point in trying to reason with people that want you to hate them, you can only feel sorry for them, and put them on your ignore list.

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Old 12-05-2010, 11:43 AM #418
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Wow. I was really looking forward to coming down and playing this winter. Not now though, I see there's way too much drama at this field...
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Old 12-05-2010, 12:19 PM #419
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I have had a couple of days to simmer down abit and think more on this. I am still very unhappy. I hate to see this opportunity slip away. And, I really hate hurting any thing to do with Paintball. I am not an economics major or any other prestigiuos title. But I am a father with a fiscal responsibilty and have had to teach myself to be a smart consumer for the benefit of my wife and children.

When I think about this situation and how to relate it to other aspects of life I came up with the following. I really want to go see the latest and greatest movie that has come out. Is it smart for my current situation to go spend $9.00 plus added expenses for over inflated snacks, or can I wait and watch it on DVD for $1-$3 a few months later? It is just something I would have to decide at that time. Sure the movie theater is bigger and has better sound, but my house is more comfortable and it is the same movie. Paintball is the same to me. I have been playing for 12 years and I had just accepted the fact that during winter I had to wait a few months. Unless we had a nice sunny day then we would go to the rocks. I could have driven to Denver or Rapid City to play but I had to realize I couldn't afford it and wait for spring.

I am a salesman guys and I deal with commodity increases on a daily basis. I have 5 other competitors in casper alone. When the cost of copper goes up, I have to decide where my pricing will be competitive at without losing my customer. If I go too high they will shop elsewhere. If I go too low I will lose money but I keep a customer. Things always balance out over the year. There are other areas to make up that low margin with my other products that are not monitored so closely by the customer. Winter months are slower because our customers are slower. We know that we will have low income during those months but the higher income over the spring and summer help to balance that out. I understand that Dead-eye is the only indoor field in this area so he doesn't have competition. But a smart consumer still has to determine if things are in their budget. A few years back when fuel was up over $4 a gallon the trucking companys had to increase their rates to stay in business. We knew and understood this. So when they raised their rates by 25% to 30% we just had to roll with the punches or not get stuff shipped out. Now, had they increased them by 100% that would have been unacceptible. We would have searched out other means to have our material delivered. That is the way the business world works. If you price yourself out of the market, the consumer will find another way to meet their needs.

I think a 30% increase is fair for the weekinight play since it is limited by time. I would not have a problem paying $13.00 for Weeknight play. That is 3 dollars more per person. We have averaged at least 7 people out there which would be at least $24 more dollars each night. That should buy 6-7 more gallons of fuel. Since that seems to be the main concern then that should cover it. I agree the weekends could sustain a higher price because the heaters run longer and people have the opportunity to play longer. As I stated in my earlier rants, I am okay with that. Another thing that most fields do is require field paint only. That assures them that they will have additional revenue other than field fees. This also assures them that they will be able to rotate their paint so it doesn't get old. However, it has to be done at a fair price or people just won't pay it. Supply and Demand rules the market but only when it is demanded. The paint pricing at deadeye is fair at this moment. I think most everybody was buying their paint out there. I know that I was one of the ones who did not. That was only because I am picky about how my paint is stored. I don't really like that brand of paint but I accept it because the field has mandated it.

I wish I could have gone out there on a saturday to support the field but family time just didn't allow it. That is why I ranted over the wednesday night changes. Because that is where it affected me the most. I truly have no problem paying the higher price on the weekend especially since they got sup-air. I think the facility is good for our area as it will give new players a chance to see what paintball is and how fun it can be.
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Old 12-05-2010, 01:13 PM #420
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BigD, there really isn't Drama at the field. We are just having a hicup right now. For the most part our local speedballers are all very close knit. But you won't find a town anywhere that some people just don't get along. It happens in every sport. We would love to have you come play some time.
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