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Old 12-07-2010, 09:05 PM #106
BlackAngelSS
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Boom Master View Post
Yeah, field owners and producers hate suprises Friday night and especially Sat morning.

Make sure they know you are coming and if welcomed, don't hesistate to ask if they waive the registration fee for tank owners/crew.

If you are the only tank, OFFER to play both sides. morning and afternoon or Sat and Sunday. Flip a coin to see where you start because the side you start on gets the momentum and confidence of having a tank on their side. Given a choice, I prefer morning and afternoon halves.

Oklahoma D Day made the mistake of letting all the local (Axis) tanks stay as a group and not evening up the armor for both sides. It was like 45 to 6. Ridiculous. We Allied got tic'd off after 3-4 years so we showed up with 150 AT weapons. Half of the AT weapons were deployed to get the tanks OFF the field. The other half was deployed to make sure they didn't get back ON the field. They had to run down ONE road about a quarter of a mile long to get onto the field. A gaunlet of 75 AT players in heavy covers on both sides. We neutered the Axis Armor. That was the LAST game they allowed 'homemade' AT weapons citing insurance requirements that no other field or insurance carrier seems to have then or since. It was ALL BS...! Yes, those tanks did NOT have ANY FUN that year. Spend the weekend in the tank insertion area. It shouldn't have happened in the first place. Producer mismanagement of the game.

Be willing to even up the armor or you will hear a LOT of whining and unhappy players and tankers at the game...

I would STILL like to see a way established where one side could CAPTURE a tank and use it on their side for a while.
Man 46 vs 6 tanks? Id love to be on the 6 side for that! Using nerfs though not paintball guns for cannons
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Old 12-08-2010, 08:54 AM #107
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Yeah, that's what what my NCO s would have called a "Target Rich Environment" while we trained during the Cold War. With that many OpFor, you hardly have to aim, just point and shoot.

Just remember to keep the doors locked and your masks on, you never know when someone will want to "bust a cool move" without reading the rules first like Stockplayer did. We don't want anybody getting hurt and we don't want to take the fun out of bringing PB AFVs to scenarios.
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Old 12-08-2010, 11:00 AM #108
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Yeah but the infantry didn't care for it at all. About 1,900 players.
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Old 12-10-2010, 09:51 PM #109
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Taking out a tank is the greatest fun you can have on the field, and that's what got me into tanks. Now that my grandchildren and great nephews are old enough to play, I wanted to give them a crack at the fun of taking out ole grandpappy.
But we shouldn't overlook the fact that fielding a tank is a big, expensive job, and the owners take both a financial risk and a personal one just to get it to the field where you can easily take it out of the game (and gain big points) for under ten bucks with your Nerf or paint grenade.
The fact is that tanks are very vulnerable, and although we've shot up people lots of times, more often than that we got knocked out and lose the game for our side.
But does that mean we have to get bunkered in the jugular a few dozen times? Our friend was lucky he just got it in the head, and not in a major blood vessel. For, as it says on the booklet you didn't read when you got your marker, paintball can indeed be lethal.
I think, though, the blame has to be shared for tanker injuries.
We have to assume there will always be that tiny minority of individuals who really, truly wants to kill or injure other players. Younger and more immature persons don't have well developed powers of judgment needed to make the right call. They can get carried away, get an overabundance of adrenalin, or whatever, and do some pretty stupid things. This is something you can count on.
Therefor, if you are going to field a tank, it should be a TANK, and not a wedge of Swiss cheese on wheels that allows balls to easily penetrate or bust it up, because someone will ALWAYS try to do this. Your tank must be resistant to high velocity hardened missile hits, frozen paintballs, hot shots, rocks, and morons ramming it with their incredibly hard pointed heads.
Paintball is an extreme sport, so you have got to expect and be prepared for extremists. Rules are great, but are always broken eventually.
So, in addition to calling for the culling out of fools in the field, there has to be some minimal standards for tanks, to make sure they are robust enough to protect the fools inside. This forum is a good place to air your great ideas of making an origami tank, using cellophane for windows, employing papier mache' techniques, using Mom's kitchen curtains, etc., in order to get a bit of guidance from those who have been doing it for a decade or so and have thus far managed to survive.
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Old 12-11-2010, 12:31 PM #110
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Most of the problems are players that just don't know any better. Newbies to the game. Early on, I tried to essentially bunker a tank. OK D Day had those stupid ignition kill switches mounted on the front of the tank inside a box with a 1" hole in it that you had to put a paintball in to flip the switch and kill the ignition. Trouble is it had to be a head on hit. No angle, no partial hit and they often mounted them pointing downwards so you essentially had to be lying on the ground 15 feet in front of the tank when you took you shot. We were told to just run up to the tank and put the barrel in the hole and fire until the engine stopped. Looking back, the WHOLE thing was stupid and dangerous. Picture a 2 ton vehicle going down a hill and suddenly not having any power steering or power brakes... DuH! A Game rule that forces players to get ONTO a tank road in close proximity to a moving tank is inherently dangerous. It takes a while for inexperienced players to learn the ropes. Why the veterans should get better organized and train newbies better. Bunkering a tank can seem like the right thing to do if you do not know better. Too much adrenlin can override a game briefing about the 20 foot rule...
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Old 12-17-2010, 08:29 AM #111
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A little late to the party, but I was lurking because I'm bored and I thought I'd chime in.

I'm not seeing a huge problem here... it's not like someone blindly stuck an electro into the back of a tank and emptied their hopper onto the occupants. This guy opened the back door of a walking tank (aka: two dudes with a box over their heads) and took two aimed shots at their legs.

I could see this being a problem if he point-blanked them in the back of their heads. I could see this being a problem if the tank were motorized. I don't see shooting a guy in the leg with a paintball during a paintball game to be a problem even if that guy has a box on his head.

Also, I absolutely love the tank drivers/gunners talking about the dangers of one-balling some guy in the butt when some of them are rolling around out there painting people with DTs. What if the guy you just unloaded a case on has hemophilia? Oops.
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Old 12-17-2010, 08:46 AM #112
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A little late to the party, but I was lurking because I'm bored and I thought I'd chime in.

I'm not seeing a huge problem here... it's not like someone blindly stuck an electro into the back of a tank and emptied their hopper onto the occupants. This guy opened the back door of a walking tank (aka: two dudes with a box over their heads) and took two aimed shots at their legs.

I could see this being a problem if he point-blanked them in the back of their heads. I could see this being a problem if the tank were motorized. I don't see shooting a guy in the leg with a paintball during a paintball game to be a problem even if that guy has a box on his head.

Also, I absolutely love the tank drivers/gunners talking about the dangers of one-balling some guy in the butt when some of them are rolling around out there painting people with DTs. What if the guy you just unloaded a case on has hemophilia? Oops.


Tbh if someone is playing paintball and has Hemophilia.. they really shouldnt be playing paintball. Paintball most cases does cause bruising.. and since brusing occurs when bloodvessels rupture, then I think thats kinda on them for playing paintball in the first place.
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Old 12-17-2010, 10:20 AM #113
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Yeah, I mentioned that because, earlier, one of the posters said that the OP could have caused serious injury by shooting someone in the ***. His logic was that he personally was on blood thinners and drove a tank because it was dangerous for him to get hit by a paintball, so if someone shot him, it might cause injury.

My argument is that, following this logic, someone in a tank shooting cases of paint is far more likely to cause a serious injury or death than someone shooting someone else once on the butt.

My personal opinion is that if you can't safely be shot anywhere with a paintball wearing protective gear and at field legal fps limits, then you have no business on the field.
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Old 12-17-2010, 10:45 AM #114
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Well in that instance I guess I could understand his logic? but Paintball even tho players dont make contact with each other? Is essentially a contact sport.. personally I feel if you cannot safely play you shouldnt.

That being said.. even with blood thinners you still clot. Hemophilia is alittle mroe serious. That person could essentially get hit, abd be able to clot fine enough with enough pressure. Its kinda like if you are on blood thinners and get a needle.. you still clot just its more difficult. I think in either situations its a risk you ACCEPT to take.. i mean something could misfire and soemone accidently shoot you when your not expecting it. Then in that instance..? Should you have been there in the first place?
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Old 12-17-2010, 12:37 PM #115
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Should you have been there in the first place?
No. I was just pointing out that it's rediculous to scold somebody for shooting someone in the leg with a paintball during a paintball game just because the person being shot might have had some kind of blood disorder and been seriously injured.
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Old 12-17-2010, 12:57 PM #116
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No. I was just pointing out that it's rediculous to scold somebody for shooting someone in the leg with a paintball during a paintball game just because the person being shot might have had some kind of blood disorder and been seriously injured.
I see your point.
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Old 12-17-2010, 01:12 PM #117
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The entire game is one of managed risks. Everything you do in life is a balance of managed risks. No exceptions. Going to sleep is a managed risk, because you might not wake up. Yes that is entirely over the top, but it is fundamentally true.

It is within the scope of "managed" risks that this entire thread gets confrontational. We choose to play paintball, and as mentioned already, there are risks. To "manage" those risks, we play (or I should say, are supposed to play ) by a set of rules. Those rules generally include things like maximum velocity (280 fps for instance with PB markers), rate of fire, surrender rule, and safety distance from motorized tanks. These rules are in place to prevent accidents and injuries.

In the very specific case of the original starting post for this thread, along with the added details provided by the the original poster, and making the assumption that every thing occurred just as Stockplayer described we can conclude that there was no injury, and arguably no "danger". There was, however, risk, arguably within the "reasonably managed" category. All that is quite beside the point. Stockplayer broke the rules. That is enough.

The rules are there to prevent a situation from escalating beyond the "safe" threshold, that is to say, to "manage" the risk level.

Consider this, two airliners have a near collision on the runway because one pilot did not "read the rules" for that particular airport. Nobody got hurt. Nothing was damaged. Little or no delay was created due to the incident.
Question: Was it OK for the incurring pilot to ignore rules he or she SHOULD have read, understood and followed?

NO! Why not? Because those rule are there to prevent accidents or injury.

NOT the same situation of course, and the example pilot would face serious repercussions by the FAA as well as his employer.

There are good similarities though. The example pilot would be disciplined, Stockplayer was called out by the ref, so sorta disciplined. They both failed to adhere to the rules of the "field", and thankfully no harm was done in either case.

However, both broke the rules, and both should learn from that mistake rather than bragging about "cool moves".

The point the Tankers focus on is "broke the rule (in spirit or explicitly)", and so posed a safety hazard. Really, shooting at 5' is not good sportsmanship in many cases, and this one in particular was pretty far out there from the Tankers perspective.

As a Tanker and a Grunt, I expect to be challenged by the game, and will take my lumps with as much dignity as I can. I enjoy the game a great deal, and even when I get short shrift, I still enjoy the overall experience, though perhaps not that particular exchange. Yeah, some of us whined a bit more than was due, and this medium is prone to hyperbole, (witness my own commercial airplane analogy) but hopefully we have at least alleviated your boredom for a little while, and maybe, if we're lucky, somebody will have learned something useful as a result.
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Old 12-17-2010, 01:28 PM #118
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I understand that he did break the rules... but I don't understand how he did anything wrong. There's a difference.

As an example, in my home state of SC, there is a law that's been in the books for over 200 years that states any man going to church must bring his rifle or shotgun to defend against indian attacks (I'm sure the law was more relevent back in 17XX). Now, the last time I went to church I did not bring either a rifle or a shotgun... was that illegal? Technically, yes, it was. Was it wrong? I'd have to say no.

So while I can completely see that what the OP did was illegal, I can't see why shooting a guy once on the leg during a game is wrong. Is it just because he had a box on his head and was technically a "tank"?
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Old 12-17-2010, 02:42 PM #119
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If you break the rules, you are doing something wrong, by definition.

Discussing archaic, or obsolete yet "still on the books" laws might prove rather entertaining, but is pretty off topic, so lets refrain from that here please.

So, yes, the OP pulled an illegal move. And, NO, shooting a player once on the leg during a game is, of itself, not wrong. Opening up a PB Tank (Tank, not APC) door and shooting any player in side, anywhere, at any time, is wrong.

It just occurs to me that possibly the best analogy that can be given here is this: You are NOT permitted to deliberately shoot a Ref. Period. During Tank operations, the OCCUPANTS of the tank are for purposes of this discussion"Refs", so shooting them is a no no. The ONLY legitimate method for eliminating the tank varies slightly from field to field, but is generally is by Nerf, Satchel Charge, or AT Mine ONLY. One field I have heard of uses special colored Paintballs fired ONLY from designated AT markers. NO other methods are valid, and in every rule set I have read, Standard PB markers are explicitly EXCLUDED as valid AT weapons.

I pulled that "ref" reference from a website with tanks rules, where the tank driver is considered a ref.
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Tower: "TWA 2341, for noise abatement turn right 45 Degrees."

TWA 2341: "Center, we are at 35,000 feet. How much noise can we make up here?"

Tower: "Sir, have you ever heard the noise a 747 makes when it hits a 727?"
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Old 12-18-2010, 10:46 AM #120
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We are beating the ahdes out of this dead horse. But hey, its dead so, beat on!

Dont get close to the tank. Doing so is a violation of the distance rule.
Dont open the tanks door and shoot someone inside. Doing so is a violation of the sportsmanship rule.
If the tank personnel, with the exception of the driver, are exposed, shoot them. It will teach them to keep their hatches dogged down.
Do not shoot at the driver. Just dont do it.
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Old 12-19-2010, 12:49 PM #121
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Redthirst, If a player doesnt take the time to read the rules before a game of course they dont know when or what they are breaking them. But common sense and then even a experienced player should finally realize that shooting players at close range or opening the door or port of a tank theres a greater chance of someone getting hurt. Then of course there's another possible problem if those whom got shot to get up set and looking to beat on someone. The original poster even said he didnt know about any engagement rules. But thats why we have websites like this to get the word out in hopes that people are made aware of certain rules.

Everyone have a safe and joyous Holiday season and New Years!

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Old 12-30-2010, 06:49 AM #122
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No way! you guys are still talking about this.

Merry Christmas to all the Tankers out there.
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Old 12-30-2010, 07:38 AM #123
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We're trying not too but people keep popping in, reading the first page and commenting.
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Old 12-30-2010, 01:30 PM #124
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I sort of think this post has went a little to far and should stop. The point of it has been made and many comments on shooting people at close range has been discussed now numerous times. My only comment now is I dont think players or tankers should shoot anyone at close range. Its part of the game. But its still happens and probably always will. We as players should know and respect the rules of engagement and know when its time to stop shooting. People can get hurt in many ways and sometimes the injuries are serious.

One final comment. I believe I am the person that people are talking about in the way of using blood thinners because of a health condition. This was in a earlier post. Even with my condition I dont believe a paintball welt is going to cause me any serious injuries. Unless its a really close shot. Last year I accidently shot myself in the leg while inside my tank. I got a good size welt. I have had other incidents that were non paintball related that resulted in worse internal injuries. I am still here and will continue playing until I decide I dont want to play anymore. Now that I am an older player and cannot or dont want to run the field like I use to. Tanking has been my new way of still being involved in the game. I have said that being in a tank does add extra protection for me to prevent any injuries such as welts. But on occasion I have been indirectly hit in my tank. My stories on that have also been posted. I am not going to justify myself to anyone in this forum on why I should or should not play because of my health issue. I have learned to deal with it and feel safe to continue to play. If I go down because of some kind of hit that's my problem and wont blame anyone else. I will say in my first tank I was worried about getting hurt. It was top heavy and always had concerns of flipping it. I actually did twice and almost two other times. Now with my new half track being built from a JD gator 6 x 4 I dont have those worries anymore.

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Old 12-30-2010, 02:49 PM #125
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Well, if you know one of the moderators, you could ask them to close this thread. I checked on a thread that I originated, and the only option was to delete it. So, if Stockplayer is "done" with this thread, he (or a moderator) is (are) the only one(s) that can shut it down. For Stockplayer, he can delete it. Maybe the moderators can close or lock it down, otherwise, the Zombie Equine shall rise to be Flogged again!
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Tower: "TWA 2341, for noise abatement turn right 45 Degrees."

TWA 2341: "Center, we are at 35,000 feet. How much noise can we make up here?"

Tower: "Sir, have you ever heard the noise a 747 makes when it hits a 727?"
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Old 12-31-2010, 08:52 AM #126
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Agree totally
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