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Old 08-14-2010, 08:04 PM #85
dr.strangelove
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Paintball's fastest growth period was from the late 90's to about 2004 when electronic guns and arena-style speedball came into their own, so I don't think the "high ROF = less growth" argument really works out. When a 10 round tube of paint cost $20 there were a lot fewer people playing the game. Your nostalgic memories notwithstanding, cheaper paintballs came as a result of the growth of the game (economies of scale) and simultaneously contributed to that growth (lower cost of playing). There's no rule that says you can't shoot 20 balls a day just because you paid 50% less for them than you did 20 years ago.
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Old 08-14-2010, 08:21 PM #86
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CrusaderPB View Post
My field offers paint for sale by the bag. $10/bag at that, for a good quality paint. $40/case? That isn't a high price in the least bit.
There's the issue. I can't get $40 a case unless I buy it online and bring it to a BYOP field, and as far as I know, there are none left doing BYOP where I live.

I've paid as much as $100 a case and I know paint goes for even more sometimes. $40 a case is affordable (assuming entry fee/air isn't expensive), anything $60+ is not. Especially not for a 14 year old kid, which is when I and my friends started playing...

I think i just live in the wrong place, though. We get ****ty deals here.
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Old 08-14-2010, 08:28 PM #87
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peeps don't seem to get it, if they did a good job on the machines, this changes more than cost. First they can wholesale and make money for what it cost a softgel manufacturer to make a case - roughly. But more importantly, plastic molding is consistent. Making softgels is more like baking, try to bake 20 let alone 2000 perfectly matching cupcakes... the tolerances should be off the charts. However, the plastic has the challenge of being sharper when it breaks and its more compostable although its given the biodegrade seal for the most part. There is only one real place to get the material its all based off one patent. I am curious to see how this goes and if its smoke and mirrors or they do in fact have a plant built and running full tilt.
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Old 08-14-2010, 08:45 PM #88
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Even if they find a way to make cheaper paintballs, manufacturer's or field owners will probably still charge the same price if not more, It will only increase revenue for manufacturer's and field owners, the players will still be left out
They aren't in it for us... They are in it to make money, but if it gives the fields a bit more money and us a little lower price, Im all for it. We have had 2 fields go under in a year and a half.
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Old 08-14-2010, 09:25 PM #89
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They aren't in it for us... They are in it to make money, but if it gives the fields a bit more money and us a little lower price, Im all for it. We have had 2 fields go under in a year and a half.
Could be attributed to bad business or bad business owners. Sometimes it's better for a business man to get into paintball then a paintball man to get into business.
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Old 08-14-2010, 09:35 PM #90
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Has anyone realized that a paintball filled with water breaking in your gun can cause a major ****fest it will just seep into all the electronics on your hopper and loader, than it may find its way into your reg (idk if thats possible) which can cause major issues.
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Old 08-14-2010, 09:49 PM #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dr.strangelove View Post
Paintball's fastest growth period was from the late 90's to about 2004 when electronic guns and arena-style speedball came into their own, so I don't think the "high ROF = less growth" argument really works out. When a 10 round tube of paint cost $20 there were a lot fewer people playing the game. Your nostalgic memories notwithstanding, cheaper paintballs came as a result of the growth of the game (economies of scale) and simultaneously contributed to that growth (lower cost of playing). There's no rule that says you can't shoot 20 balls a day just because you paid 50% less for them than you did 20 years ago.
Point to you sir, perhaps I should better phrase what I am saying. The increase ROF did add enjoyment to the sport; now I feel it's too much. When I mean shoot less I am referring to the players who go out and shoot 5 cases in a walk on day. That is, in my opinion, part of the reason that new player attendance subsided. I wouldn't say "oh everyone should play pump" or "oh everyone use less than a case...", no that would just be ridiculous.

Of course, I also recognize that most players DO NOT shoot 4-5 cases. The average player at my field hovers around a case per day. When we get the people who try to ramp, go overkill, etc, if they go overboard on just a small group of friends... well you just lost those customers,

Quote:
Originally Posted by xXBloodLustACXx View Post
There's the issue. I can't get $40 a case unless I buy it online and bring it to a BYOP field, and as far as I know, there are none left doing BYOP where I live.

I've paid as much as $100 a case and I know paint goes for even more sometimes. $40 a case is affordable (assuming entry fee/air isn't expensive), anything $60+ is not. Especially not for a 14 year old kid, which is when I and my friends started playing...

I think i just live in the wrong place, though. We get ****ty deals here.
Oh trust me, I feel your pain. Before I took ownership of the field I did, it was BYOP for years. $25 for entry... BYOP... it was a beautiful thing. In the last 3 years of the old company, it was $30/ BYOP, paint at $17/bag if bought on field. In the last year, actually to save on Insurance, the old owner dropped BYOP but dropped paint prices to $40/case.

It's where we have been at ever since. $70 gets you entry, air, and a case of quality paintballs (our lowest quality is typically Diablo Heat). It's not a bad deal, we don't make much off of paint, in fact we'd rather the regulars come out several times a month than have to blow all their cash on just 1 visit. There needs to be a balance.
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Old 08-14-2010, 09:53 PM #92
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Even if prices still remained the same, at least a little more of a profit would allow fields to have a little extra to put back in.
Best said.
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Old 08-14-2010, 10:33 PM #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by godslegion View Post
Even if prices still remained the same, at least a little more of a profit would allow fields to have a little extra to put back in.
Unfortunately, most field owners don't get that theory.

Wholesale paint prices have dropped by incredible amounts over the years. Those drops are almost always passed onto the players at paintball fields. Which would be alright if it meant that paintball got cheaper for players and we would have more of them as a result. But we all know that the only thing that changes is the amount the average player shoots (prices drop, players shoot more) and players don't actually save any money.

Paintball fields used to make money on paintballs. But now many fields make no money or very little money on paintballs. If paintball prices drop at the wholesale level due to some new improved process, all that will mean is that prices will drop at the retail level and players will shoot more. what will that do at the local field? I'll let everyone draw their own conclusions, as everyone seems to have differing opinions on that (which demonstrates that as an industry as a whole, we have very little understanding of how things affect the overall picture).
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Old 08-14-2010, 10:34 PM #94
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Originally Posted by XSVterror16 View Post
Has anyone realized that a paintball filled with water breaking in your gun can cause a major ****fest it will just seep into all the electronics on your hopper and loader, than it may find its way into your reg (idk if thats possible) which can cause major issues.
I take it you have never played in the rain...
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Old 08-14-2010, 10:54 PM #95
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What about that invisible ink stuff you can get. My son bought some awhile back and squirted some all over me very expensive shirt and after about 5 minutes it disappeared.. Wouldn't that make for a good fill if the color was bright enough?
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Old 08-14-2010, 11:40 PM #96
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''invisible ink'' is made of phenophalen, rubbing alcohol, water, and hydroxide. if the the ball ever brakes i think everything that ball will go through will be ruined it's such a thin mixture and if not processed in right proportion can be highly toxic.
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Old 08-14-2010, 11:55 PM #97
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if paint prices go down, id be at the field more often. its getting crazy.
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Old 08-15-2010, 06:20 AM #98
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Point to you sir, perhaps I should better phrase what I am saying. The increase ROF did add enjoyment to the sport; now I feel it's too much. When I mean shoot less I am referring to the players who go out and shoot 5 cases in a walk on day. That is, in my opinion, part of the reason that new player attendance subsided. I wouldn't say "oh everyone should play pump" or "oh everyone use less than a case...", no that would just be ridiculous.

Of course, I also recognize that most players DO NOT shoot 4-5 cases. The average player at my field hovers around a case per day. When we get the people who try to ramp, go overkill, etc, if they go overboard on just a small group of friends... well you just lost those customers,



Oh trust me, I feel your pain. Before I took ownership of the field I did, it was BYOP for years. $25 for entry... BYOP... it was a beautiful thing. In the last 3 years of the old company, it was $30/ BYOP, paint at $17/bag if bought on field. In the last year, actually to save on Insurance, the old owner dropped BYOP but dropped paint prices to $40/case.

It's where we have been at ever since. $70 gets you entry, air, and a case of quality paintballs (our lowest quality is typically Diablo Heat). It's not a bad deal, we don't make much off of paint, in fact we'd rather the regulars come out several times a month than have to blow all their cash on just 1 visit. There needs to be a balance.

You simply can't deny that cheaper paint will allow newer people to get into the sport more. At my field, a person that needs to rent would need to pay $25 rental fee + $25 (for 1000 rounds) + $5 tax. In total, they would need to pay $55 for an entire day of play. Shooting 1000 rounds for an entire day is not unreasonable, especially considering that rental guns are VERY inaccurate. My friends want to play weekly, but they simply can't afford to pay that much ever week. And yes, playing pump and such is fun, I can attest to that since I play with a pistol. But pump/pistol play is for more experienced players, not new guys wanting to start up.
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Old 08-15-2010, 08:26 AM #99
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Leave paintball Alone Make It Popular
And a bit more affordable for the masses.
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Old 08-15-2010, 09:19 AM #100
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Everyone is worried about the new players being turned off of paintball by high rates of fire, but how many new guys jump in with the more experienced guys with eletros anyway? Most of the new players want to go run around in the woods or do the whole capture the flag thing on a spool field and such. I know if i just walked out on the field and seen the x-ball players shooting 13 bps at each other diving everywhere with expensive guns and gear i wouldnt dare step in there with them. I would play my side games untill i felt comfortable enough to join in.


As for the fields with only a speedball arena, they need to have a set day for new players only, maybe every other saturday or something.
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Old 08-15-2010, 11:39 AM #101
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Unfortunately, most field owners don't get that theory.

Wholesale paint prices have dropped by incredible amounts over the years. Those drops are almost always passed onto the players at paintball fields. Which would be alright if it meant that paintball got cheaper for players and we would have more of them as a result. But we all know that the only thing that changes is the amount the average player shoots (prices drop, players shoot more) and players don't actually save any money.

Paintball fields used to make money on paintballs. But now many fields make no money or very little money on paintballs. If paintball prices drop at the wholesale level due to some new improved process, all that will mean is that prices will drop at the retail level and players will shoot more. what will that do at the local field? I'll let everyone draw their own conclusions, as everyone seems to have differing opinions on that (which demonstrates that as an industry as a whole, we have very little understanding of how things affect the overall picture).

I shoot a case of paint every time I play, if paint was cheaper instead of playing 2x a month, i would play 4x times or more. The field would make money off entry.

If paint prices were cut in half I wouldn't shoot twice as much, I'd play more often.
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Old 08-15-2010, 05:56 PM #102
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Everyone is worried about the new players being turned off of paintball by high rates of fire, but how many new guys jump in with the more experienced guys with eletros anyway? Most of the new players want to go run around in the woods or do the whole capture the flag thing on a spool field and such. I know if i just walked out on the field and seen the x-ball players shooting 13 bps at each other diving everywhere with expensive guns and gear i wouldnt dare step in there with them. I would play my side games untill i felt comfortable enough to join in.


As for the fields with only a speedball arena, they need to have a set day for new players only, maybe every other saturday or something.
Would have to say that this depends on the attitude of the players. at my local field all new players play supair straight off with and most of them (with tippmans) join in with the long time players. these obv go easy on them and do 1 vs 3 etc. but i must say if your open to showing people that we speedball players are not such a "scary bunch" then it all works out. also.. not to open up this thread for "ramp hating" but Ramping does discourage new players and makes for "lazy" paintballers i mean trigger walking is a skill why not add that to the repertoire of the "pro" division.
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Old 08-15-2010, 07:55 PM #103
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nice so then they can make paint cheaper and still sell a case at 70 bucks!!! so that way they make more money!
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Old 08-15-2010, 08:05 PM #104
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TheHef View Post
I shoot a case of paint every time I play, if paint was cheaper instead of playing 2x a month, i would play 4x times or more. The field would make money off entry.

If paint prices were cut in half I wouldn't shoot twice as much, I'd play more often.
exactly what i was thinking. there's only so much a man can shoot, but you know what, i'd be able to practice a whole hell of a lot more if a case was 20 bucks.

no case of paint should cost me more than the tank of gas i spent to get there.
Also, look at it from some rookie/noob/beginner standpoint. Your first time out you really dont want to convince mom and dad to buy 30 bucks for a half case or 60 for a full... itd attract a lot more people if the first thing that came to peoples minds was "ITS EXPeNSIVE"
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Old 08-15-2010, 08:21 PM #105
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If anything I would more than love for a decent case of paint to be 30 bucks. Ive been playing for over 4 years and Ive done tournaments
here and there and ive been asked to join several of different tournament teams. The only reason why I have to deny their request is
because I dont know if Id have the money to do a full day of practice.

Where Im at in central cal the local fields cheapest paint is about $48. I try to go to the field every weekend. 2 weekends ill buy a case
and the other 2 out of the month I get 2 bags. If paint was ATLEAST $30 Id be able to get a solid case every weekend or 2 cases every other week.
Id be a very happy baller.
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