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Old 08-15-2010, 10:50 PM #43
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ic@ntbebeat View Post
and being gay is purely choice say what you want.
May I ask how you know this?
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Old 08-15-2010, 11:14 PM #44
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Originally Posted by Crede777 View Post
Because not all choices are made equally. Some people have predispositions which are beyond their control, like people who are alcoholics, gambling addicts, or have nervous ticks. You cannot hold everyone equally accountable for certain actions.
No, we can't, but God can.

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Originally Posted by ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη View Post
Hey, if you want to throw out the science of the matter rather than trying to reconcile your beliefs with science, whatever man.

If you don't believe people are born gay, then you must believe at least that some people are genetically born with a predisposition to be gay. God creates us with sinful nature. He propagates sin.
He doesn't create sin, but he makes us more susceptible to sin.
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Old 08-15-2010, 11:20 PM #45
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the creator of everything did NOT create sin?
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Old 08-16-2010, 12:29 AM #46
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Originally Posted by Iamamartianchurch View Post
the creator of everything did NOT create sin?
Ok, my bad, that was foolish of me to say.
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Old 08-16-2010, 01:08 AM #47
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ic@ntbebeat View Post
in no way does god create us with a sinful nature... and being gay is purely choice say what you want.
From whence do we sin?
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Old 08-18-2010, 01:19 PM #48
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I have a question. If babies can be born with a sexual preference like homosexuality, wouldn't it make sense that babies can also be born with other sexual preferences? Necrophilia, bestiality, etc.
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Old 08-18-2010, 05:42 PM #49
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Originally Posted by 270KIDZ View Post
I have a question. If babies can be born with a sexual preference like homosexuality, wouldn't it make sense that babies can also be born with other sexual preferences? Necrophilia, bestiality, etc.
I don't think anyone truly said that babies can literally be BORN gay, only that they can born with the predisposition to become gay later in life, with environment and situations also coming into effect obviously. As for the exact nature of your question... I don't know, but I would wager to say no, simply being, that none of this stuff is seen in other animals (bestiality... eh, technically) but homosexuality IS seen in other animals. It has to do with genes, and I don't know if any genes "govern" any of those types of things.

Babsa- I do hope you read the post, despite the fact that it's a long *** post.
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Old 08-18-2010, 07:03 PM #50
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Originally Posted by ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη View Post
I don't think anyone truly said that babies can literally be BORN gay, only that they can born with the predisposition to become gay later in life, with environment and situations also coming into effect obviously. As for the exact nature of your question... I don't know, but I would wager to say no, simply being, that none of this stuff is seen in other animals (bestiality... eh, technically) but homosexuality IS seen in other animals. It has to do with genes, and I don't know if any genes "govern" any of those types of things.
No offense but thats just scientifically dumb.
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Old 08-18-2010, 08:53 PM #51
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Originally Posted by 270KIDZ View Post
No offense but thats just scientifically dumb.
How so? It was basically me saying "I don't know," yet at the same time giving thought on it. I don't have a PhD in biology or anything.
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Old 08-18-2010, 10:25 PM #52
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Originally Posted by ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη View Post
How so? It was basically me saying "I don't know," yet at the same time giving thought on it. I don't have a PhD in biology or anything.
There is no such thing as a "gay gene". The theory is that people can be born with a biochemistry and brain architecture that leads to a homosexual tendency. The debate is whether the biochemistry and brain architecture are the cause or the outcome.

1) Guy has a "gay" brain. => He is more likely to be gay.
OR
2) Guy is gay. => His brain will develop into a "gayer" brain.

My point was that if we assume that brain shape and biochemistry can affect sexual preference, then we have to assume that all sexual preferences are in affected by those factors.

Now who wants to talk about the moral and political implications of that...
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Old 08-18-2010, 10:40 PM #53
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 270KIDZ View Post
There is no such thing as a "gay gene". The theory is that people can be born with a biochemistry and brain architecture that leads to a homosexual tendency. The debate is whether the biochemistry and brain architecture are the cause or the outcome.

1) Guy has a "gay" brain. => He is more likely to be gay.
OR
2) Guy is gay. => His brain will develop into a "gayer" brain.

My point was that if we assume that brain shape and biochemistry can affect sexual preference, then we have to assume that all sexual preferences are in affected by those factors.

Now who wants to talk about the moral and political implications of that...
Yeah, sorry for my ignorance. I'm not particularly well-versed in this subject.
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Old 08-18-2010, 11:16 PM #54
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http://borngay.procon.org/

^This may prove helpful on the subject. Plenty of good unbiased info there. Below is one excerpt I found insightful.


The American Psychological Association, considered to be the largest association of psychologists worldwide, wrote the following information on its website APA.org (accessed Jan. 30, 2009):

"There are numerous theories about the origins of a person's sexual orientation; most scientists today agree that sexual orientation is most likely the result of a complex interaction of environmental, cognitive and biological factors. In most people, sexual orientation is shaped at an early age. There is also considerable recent evidence to suggest that biology, including genetic or inborn hormonal factors, play a significant role in a person's sexuality. In summary, it is important to recognize that there are probably many reasons for a person's sexual orientation and the reasons may be different for different people."
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Old 08-18-2010, 11:20 PM #55
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Random, unrelated note... but if environment and taught values has a lot to do with it... I wish I had been taught to be asexual. lol
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Old 08-26-2010, 09:31 AM #56
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gay people are attention whores, being an attention whore doesnt mean u need just possitive attention, it means u need any attention whether it be positive. negative, or whatever. this generation is full of them. and people wonder why more and more teenage girls are becoming "bisexual" and "lesbian". yes i put the quotes because we all know theyre not really bisexual or lesbian, they just want attention. thats all
ok this is comeing from yeah a gay male.... i do agree with you on that point a lot of them are just looking for attention and i dont despute that at all just my 2 cent's


Quote:
And @ There is no such thing as a "gay gene". The theory is that people can be born with a biochemistry and brain architecture that leads to a homosexual tendency. The debate is whether the biochemistry and brain architecture are the cause or the outcome.

1) Guy has a "gay" brain. => He is more likely to be gay.
OR
2) Guy is gay. => His brain will develop into a "gayer" brain.

My point was that if we assume that brain shape and biochemistry can affect sexual preference, then we have to assume that all sexual preferences are in affected by those factors.

Now who wants to talk about the moral and political implications of that...
08-18-2010 09:53 PM
i agree with you and as far as i know with recent studies that mention that being gay is actually a hormonal imballance and it stems from the father side as i recall i cant put my finger in the researcher i just rember talking about in in med school but again thats just a study
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Old 08-26-2010, 09:37 AM #57
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in no way does god create us with a sinful nature... and being gay is purely choice say what you want.
ok well iif you wana get in the religious side of this debate the bible has been re written more times than i have fingers on my hand/ in the origional aribic bible theres no mention about the " man laying with man is a abomination "/
and how do i put this i take it your straight so let me put it lie this.... do you have a choice to like women or is it naturally the way you are....
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Old 08-26-2010, 12:24 PM #58
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Originally Posted by 270KIDZ View Post
I have a question. If babies can be born with a sexual preference like homosexuality, wouldn't it make sense that babies can also be born with other sexual preferences? Necrophilia, bestiality, etc.
Honestly, i think that all those preferences could be caused by either a predisposition or the development of the brain, as well as a person's environment.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη View Post
I don't think anyone truly said that babies can literally be BORN gay, only that they can born with the predisposition to become gay later in life, with environment and situations also coming into effect obviously. As for the exact nature of your question... I don't know, but I would wager to say no, simply being, that none of this stuff is seen in other animals (bestiality... eh, technically) but homosexuality IS seen in other animals. It has to do with genes, and I don't know if any genes "govern" any of those types of things.

Babsa- I do hope you read the post, despite the fact that it's a long *** post.
I said multiple times that a baby can be born gay. Studies show that the brain develops as a male or female while in the womb, and that all (or majority) of homosexuals tested have displayed brains similar to the opposite sex, which, as i said earlier, is developed in the womb.
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Old 08-26-2010, 12:42 PM #59
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Originally Posted by babsa_90 View Post
Honestly, i think that all those preferences could be caused by either a predisposition or the development of the brain, as well as a person's environment.



I said multiple times that a baby can be born gay. Studies show that the brain develops as a male or female while in the womb, and that all (or majority) of homosexuals tested have displayed brains similar to the opposite sex, which, as i said earlier, is developed in the womb.
true but dont you think that social is a big part of it hence comapre the 50's and 60's to 2004 - present
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Old 08-26-2010, 03:02 PM #60
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Originally Posted by xsv_beatdown View Post
true but dont you think that social is a big part of it hence comapre the 50's and 60's to 2004 - present
How do you know that there were less homosexuals back then? I don't think there was accurate record keeping of those types of things even 30 years ago.
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Old 08-26-2010, 03:03 PM #61
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Originally Posted by 270KIDZ View Post
My point was that if we assume that brain shape and biochemistry can affect sexual preference, then we have to assume that all sexual preferences are in affected by those factors.
No we don't. Assumptions are like excuses, which are like *******s. We don't have to ASSUME (what a terrible word) anything. For example, some types of ADHD are attributed to genetic causes while others are attributed to alcohol and tobacco exposure (and subsequent hypoxia) while in the womb. Things aren't generally as clean cut as you'd like to make them out to be. You can't make sweeping generalities concerning psychology.
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Old 08-26-2010, 03:06 PM #62
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You also can't compare homosexual relations between two adult males to sexual predation between a man and a child.

The fact that the action is between two consenting adults is key.
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Old 08-26-2010, 03:56 PM #63
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http://borngay.procon.org/

^This may prove helpful on the subject. Plenty of good unbiased info there. Below is one excerpt I found insightful.


The American Psychological Association, considered to be the largest association of psychologists worldwide, wrote the following information on its website APA.org (accessed Jan. 30, 2009):

"There are numerous theories about the origins of a person's sexual orientation; most scientists today agree that sexual orientation is most likely the result of a complex interaction of environmental, cognitive and biological factors. In most people, sexual orientation is shaped at an early age. There is also considerable recent evidence to suggest that biology, including genetic or inborn hormonal factors, play a significant role in a person's sexuality. In summary, it is important to recognize that there are probably many reasons for a person's sexual orientation and the reasons may be different for different people."
Great post, I think that pretty much sums this entirely useless argument up. Not like it matters though...america..
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