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Old 08-11-2010, 11:33 PM #22
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GTFO Nietzsche
Pretty much my thoughts exactly.
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Old 08-12-2010, 01:50 PM #23
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gay people are attention whores, being an attention whore doesnt mean u need just possitive attention, it means u need any attention whether it be positive. negative, or whatever. this generation is full of them. and people wonder why more and more teenage girls are becoming "bisexual" and "lesbian". yes i put the quotes because we all know theyre not really bisexual or lesbian, they just want attention. thats all
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Old 08-12-2010, 02:52 PM #24
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Originally Posted by brianwhite View Post
gay people are attention whores, being an attention whore doesnt mean u need just possitive attention, it means u need any attention whether it be positive. negative, or whatever. this generation is full of them. and people wonder why more and more teenage girls are becoming "bisexual" and "lesbian". yes i put the quotes because we all know theyre not really bisexual or lesbian, they just want attention. thats all
Some? Perhaps. All? Certainly not.
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Old 08-12-2010, 06:15 PM #25
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No, I'm not wrong. I simply stated that it's not possible to prove that someone is born gay. Nor is it possible to prove that it's a combination. There is no 'fact of the matter' because nothing has been determined to be fact. Posting some ****ty reports [while taking them as fact towards nature] and then calling someone else ignorant is laughable at best.
Take the reports for what you will. I posted up the entire debate on nature vs. nurture when it comes to the homosexual brain - it wasnt an accident that one of my links refuted the findings. I called you ignorant because your statement was ignorant; you said that it was impossible to prove that they are born gay, i posted links that do not have irrefutable evidence, but definitely show that they are definitely coming closer to what is causing homosexuality.


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I guess I was trying to get at his motivation for the question...

So to the OP, what difference does it make?
I think the OP posed this question with the intention of trying to show God's flaw in making homosexuals. Assuming the role of a modern day christian, i would say that God made homosexuals this way as a way to challenge their faith. It is a sin to lay with another man, but God made homosexuals as a way to test their faith.

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This is the same as the dumb nurture vs. nature argument. Some people may be born gay, while some people develop a homosexual mindstate as they grow.
Yes, but i think the OP isn't debating this, i think he is questioning God's intentions under the pretense that homosexuals are born with their sexual preferences.
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Old 08-12-2010, 06:49 PM #26
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Originally Posted by warbeak2099 View Post
Hawke, you're wrong too buddy. Nothing in psychology is clear cut one way or the other. The FACT of the matter is that sexual preference is a combination of nature and nurture. How much each plays a role is still debatable.
basically the answer +1
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Old 08-12-2010, 08:26 PM #27
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I have a few questions since a few things in this topic confuse me.

What is the general scientific theory, that people are born gay or that they develop homosexuality throughout life?
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Old 08-12-2010, 08:38 PM #28
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Originally Posted by ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη View Post
I have a few questions since a few things in this topic confuse me.

What is the general scientific theory, that people are born gay or that they develop homosexuality throughout life?
Is both an option? Take a look at the links i posted up on the first page, a few of them do a very good job at showing both sides of the debate.
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Old 08-12-2010, 08:41 PM #29
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born gay... simple as that. I've talked to enough gay people and they all say they are born gay and it was not a choice
So just because they say they are born gay proves they are born gay? I could say I am a female, even though I am a male. And how you go about proving that I was male rather than female? By gathering evidence and offering proof of course. It does not matter what the source is, is that source offers no evidence.
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Old 08-12-2010, 08:44 PM #30
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Is both an option? Take a look at the links i posted up on the first page, a few of them do a very good job at showing both sides of the debate.
Well, yes, I agree. I just had some confusion on the matter. I was really meaning to ask what the general Christian views on this are, as I have heard contrasting opinions from Christians.
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Old 08-12-2010, 10:25 PM #31
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Originally Posted by Hawke View Post
No, I'm not wrong. I simply stated that it's not possible to prove that someone is born gay. Nor is it possible to prove that it's a combination. There is no 'fact of the matter' because nothing has been determined to be fact. Posting some ****ty reports [while taking them as fact towards nature] and then calling someone else ignorant is laughable at best.
Please explain why the reports are ****ty. All you've done is provide a sort of "blah blah blah, no you're wrong, I'm right!" type of argument. The evidence in this case, as well as most psychological studies shows us that any sexual preference is a combination of environmental and biological factors. Explain why I'm wrong, don't just call my argument laughable.
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Old 08-12-2010, 11:39 PM #32
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Old 08-13-2010, 12:03 AM #33
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gay people go to hell
not sure if srs...

Whatever, i'll bite. A homosexual would not necessarily go to Hell, unless he lay with another man, and did not seek atonement.
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Old 08-13-2010, 02:36 AM #34
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not sure if srs...

Whatever, i'll bite. A homosexual would not necessarily go to Hell, unless he lay with another man, and did not seek atonement.
Definitely not srs.

The most ridiculous thing I find within Christianity, is that one must accept the sacrifice of Christ in order to obtain it. Is not accepting a work?
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Old 08-13-2010, 03:52 AM #35
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As far as science on homosexuality goes, there is a fairly significant correlation between fraternal birth order and sexual orientation. The prominent theory is a maternal immunization response against male hormonal activity, which increases with each subsequent male fetus. Hence, later male fetuses may experience hormonal imbalances during development, which may in turn affect their perceived sexual orientation.

It's not entirely proven, and never will be as that's not how biology/physiology operates, but it's the strongest explanation so far.

Also you can't discount nurture affecting some individuals, specifically degree of homosexual feelings. Clear cut gay/straight orientation seems to be influenced primarily by genetics/development and psychological development early in life. Degree of orientation, for example being flamboyantly gay as opposed to discreetly gay, seems mostly to be dictated by upbringing and social environment.
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Old 08-13-2010, 10:36 AM #36
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Originally Posted by ἔρως-φιλία-ἀγάπη View Post
Definitely not srs.

The most ridiculous thing I find within Christianity, is that one must accept the sacrifice of Christ in order to obtain it. Is not accepting a work?
Could you rephrase that last bit? I don't know if there was a typo of some sort, or if i am just not understand it. And could you elaborate on what makes it ridiculous?
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Old 08-13-2010, 11:48 AM #37
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Could you rephrase that last bit? I don't know if there was a typo of some sort, or if i am just not understand it. And could you elaborate on what makes it ridiculous?
Sorry. I phrased that a little too poetically. What I meant was, if one must accept Christ as savior before he is to receive salvation, is the acceptance not a work, violating the principle of a salvation based entirely on faith? Protestants (I will not mention Catholics, for they believe in a faith and works based salvation) believe that after one "has faith" in God (what defines this, and, how is this also not a work?) he must confirm in front of a group of Christians, usually while getting baptized at the same time. But the Protestant church has bastardized the Bible beyond trace. The commands of Christ are the command of communion and baptism. Christ himself says that the flesh is his body (transubstantiation) and also says that baptism “is fitting for us to fulfill all righteousness," at least in relation to himself. Why then, do Protestants falsely insist that the bread and wine must be metaphorical and the baptism symbolic? Clearly, the very idea disgusted many people, and they exited Jesus' presence.

I have heard, that, by and large, Christianity is a "unique" religion in that it does not require any work in order to receive salvation. And, while it requires significantly less (or even almost no) work when compared to other religions, it quickly becomes apparent that the notions of "faith," "acceptance," and "confirmation" are truly works, except that works has been cleverly redefined. But, even considering that Protestants actually held to their own doctrine of Sola Fide, then, to be saved, one would have to have an entirely subjective emotional experience to form a basis for a belief in the Christian God, because there is no way to prove God exists, much less the Christian God. So, this one thing (faith) would end up being the one thing separating ~1 billion people and ~5 billion people, the latter of which are all going to go to hell for eternity. These numbers are lowered even more by the fact that "hypocrites" are not real Christians, and perpetuated by the fact that God knows everything, even the thoughts and hearts' intents, so that even if one were to act out a faith in a way better than a "true" Christian, he would be condemned because he did not "believe in his heart that Jesus Christ is Lord." And that is only in the present moment.

I am not going to comment on the argument of a benevolent God torturing people in hell forever simply because they refused to believe in him, as that is a weak argument (though an argument the same). Consider this, however: it is said (by both the Bible and by Christians who have no idea what they are talking about) that Christ died to save the whole world. Assuming he did, his sacrifice has largely gone in vain, especially if one were to be rigid in their defining of a Christian (which is also subjective; the only true way to define one would be to define it the way God defines it). However, I ask you, what sense do you find in a God who sends his son to save the world because he loves humans so much, and then places a limit on salvation, as if Christ's blood that was shed was not enough, but that faith need also be present in order to receive it. As if salvation is received. It is given freely, but never received. There are numerous passages that attest to the universal salvation of all, in Romans, 1 Corinthians 3, and almost every other new testament book (and even some old testament passages). The masses of Christianity are perpetuating a myth of hell.

The problem with hell, of course, is not that it exists, but that it is purportedly eternal. Such a device manages to contrive nothing except for the torture of souls for eternity, without hope of reprise or reform. Such a system is so barbaric that all others are dwarfed in comparison. Have you ever met a parent, who in their right mind, would indefinitely torture a child for a minuscule wrong rather than punish him to show him his wrong, and then set him free to go about? The conclusion, then, in the presence of an eternal hell, must be that the omnipotent, benevolent God of the universe is either insane, or sadistic toward his own creation that he claims to love enough to have his only son die for. In light of all this, I find it impossible for me to ever believe that the Christian God would ever devise such a place, to eternally torture souls. The only way I would ever believe in hell again is if I first denounced Christianity entirely. I do, however, see no problem with a temporal hell which is designed for reform and loss of sin. I see many evidences in the Bible for a place like this. It is mentioned that hell will smell of sulfur, generally considered a purifying agent in the ancient world, and that the kings of the earth bringing their glory into New Jerusalem, despite the fact that earlier the kings of the earth are described as vile and wicked, and then later accounts saying that nothing vile will ever enter New Jerusalem.

I severely hope this is not too long for you, because I am not putting a tldr for you. If you are in an honest search of the truth, then the length should not matter. Simply take it for what it is.

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Old 08-13-2010, 09:44 PM #38
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Old 08-15-2010, 11:16 PM #39
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born gay... simple as that. I've talked to enough gay people and they all say they are born gay and it was not a choice
your born into sin= sinner...what happens after that is up to that person. how it could not be a choice makes no sense. do explain
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Old 08-15-2010, 11:20 PM #40
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your born into sin= sinner...what happens after that is up to that person. how it could not be a choice makes no sense. do explain
Because not all choices are made equally. Some people have predispositions which are beyond their control, like people who are alcoholics, gambling addicts, or have nervous ticks. You cannot hold everyone equally accountable for certain actions.
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Old 08-15-2010, 11:30 PM #41
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your born into sin= sinner...what happens after that is up to that person. how it could not be a choice makes no sense. do explain
Hey, if you want to throw out the science of the matter rather than trying to reconcile your beliefs with science, whatever man.

If you don't believe people are born gay, then you must believe at least that some people are genetically born with a predisposition to be gay. God creates us with sinful nature. He propagates sin.
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Old 08-15-2010, 11:48 PM #42
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in no way does god create us with a sinful nature... and being gay is purely choice say what you want.
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