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Old 05-23-2011, 03:56 PM #274
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sooo uhhh I havent checked this thread in a while and to say the least I was "a littttle" surprised at response turnout
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Old 05-25-2011, 11:25 PM #275
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yes, babies are born gay.
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Old 05-28-2011, 11:09 AM #276
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Problem with psychology is that the human brain is being studied by...wait for it... THE HUMAN BRAIN. If it's imperfect enough to need to be studied, it's imperfect enough to get those studies wrong, my broskis.
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Old 05-28-2011, 01:23 PM #277
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Originally Posted by vijil View Post
Those experiments don't explain why children who are abused are more likely to end up gay. There are plenty of studies linking early life experience with long term sexuality.

The fact is that it's a variety of factors. You can be born with a predisposition, sure, but your upbringing will impact this as well.

Also, the Bible is clear: being internally gay isn't a sin if you don't act on it. Chances are you will though, just as my background and genes make me likely to be lazy - also a sin. There's not really a difference from a Christian perspective. Living a perfect sinless life is impossible and always has been.
Thanks, I was going to try and post something like that but better from you since you're a christian.

/thread
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Old 05-28-2011, 05:24 PM #278
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I want to bang my head on the wall. 270kids reading of Adam Smith was ****ing stupid
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Old 05-28-2011, 05:34 PM #279
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I want to bang my head on the wall. 270kids reading of Adam Smith was ****ing stupid
I'm pretty sure he's read every book though, and unless you've also read it and discussed it with his pastor than you just can't understand.
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Old 05-28-2011, 05:35 PM #280
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tbh idgaf if he read it. I'd love to see what his professor's name was. He/she is likely a leftist of sorts, a neo-con, but definitely an idiot if he told the class that a benevolent creator was a prerequisite.
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Old 05-28-2011, 05:38 PM #281
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Born gay lol. Everybody has a choice of which hole to stick it in or lick.
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Old 05-28-2011, 05:57 PM #282
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only an idiot would think the debate is over whether or not a man chooses which hole to use.
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Old 05-28-2011, 06:12 PM #283
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tbh idgaf if he read it. I'd love to see what his professor's name was. He/she is likely a leftist of sorts, a neo-con, but definitely an idiot if he told the class that a benevolent creator was a prerequisite.
I must be out of the loop. How could a neo-con also be a leftist? I didn't think neo-con's could be THAT far out of line with normal party lines.
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Old 05-28-2011, 06:12 PM #284
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leftist, or a neo-con is how it was supposed to be read.
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Old 05-28-2011, 11:51 PM #285
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only an idiot would think the debate is over whether or not a man chooses which hole to use.
This amused me.
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Old 05-29-2011, 12:00 AM #286
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Old 05-29-2011, 02:20 AM #287
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This amused me.
I just can't fathom that people still think parents play a huge role in the long-term outcome of their child. Bryan Caplan helped me believe that, and his work on parenting is spectacular.
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Old 05-29-2011, 02:33 AM #288
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I just can't fathom that people still think parents play a huge role in the long-term outcome of their child. Bryan Caplan helped me believe that, and his work on parenting is spectacular.
Ignoring the Bryan Caplan remark, I'm sure it depends. I'm sure there are some aspects of development that parents have more influence over than others.

That being said, I can't imagine sexual preference being one of them. The idea that my parents being both men would in any way influence me to be attracted to dicks is ludicrous. I'm going to play the card, but the only reason I can imagine people thinking that is if they have repressed homosexual urges themselves.
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Old 05-29-2011, 02:54 AM #289
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Ignoring the Bryan Caplan remark, I'm sure it depends. I'm sure there are some aspects of development that parents have more influence over than others.
Not that much actually. In the short term parent's parenting decisions have a far greater effect, but in the long term, not so much.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...221533826.html

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Critics often attack behavioral genetics with a reductio ad absurdum: "If it doesn't matter how you raise your kids, why not lock them in a closet?" The answer is that twin and adoption studies measure the effect of parenting styles that people frequently use. Locking kids in closets fortunately isn't one of them. It's also important to remember that most studies focus on kids' long-run outcomes. Parents often change their kids in the short-run, but as kids grow up, their parents' influence wears off.
http://www.freakonomics.com/2011/04/...-bryan-caplan/

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Their findings surprise almost everyone. Health, intelligence, happiness, success, character, values, appreciation – they all run in families. But with a few exceptions, adoption and twin researchers find that nature overpowers nurture, especially in the long-run. Kids aren’t like clay that parents mold for life; they’re more like flexible plastic that responds to pressure, but returns to its original shape when the pressure is released.

The most meaningful exception to this flexible plastic rule is appreciation – how your kids feel about and remember you. One Swedish study asked middle-aged and elderly twins – some raised together, some raised apart – to describe how their parents raised and treated them. Twins raised together painted much more similar portraits of their parents than twins raised apart. If you raise your children with kindness and respect, they will probably remember it for as long as they live.

The upshot: Parents spend too much effort trying to mold their kids for the future, and not enough just enjoying life together. Vainly struggling to change your kids isn’t fun for you or them. And the struggle can easily hurt the main outcome where parenting really matters: the quality of the bond between parent and child.

Neither economics nor genetics are known as touchy-feely disciplines. But when you put the two fields together and ask for parenting advice, they sound like a couple of hippies. Parents need to love, encourage, and accept their kids. Stop trying to change them. Their future will take care of itself.
http://econlog.econlib.org/archives/...sian_pare.html

Enjoy. I need to pick up his book, reading all his blog posts and samples isn't doing enough
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Old 05-29-2011, 03:12 AM #290
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I'm not saying that parents can change the kind of person a child will become in life. Perhaps the better way to say it is that parents have a significant long-term impact on whether or not the child will become that person.

So in the nature vs. nurture debate, the nurture aspect isn't whether or not you can fundamentally change a person, but rather whether or not a child is properly nurtured to fully achieve their true nature.

It is an aspect that Caplan doesn't speak to. He speaks of changing behavior, I'm talking about revealing behavior. I'd have to think a bit about what kind of study would measure that.

This is all hypothetical at the moment, I have no studies atm to support that hypothesis.
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Old 05-29-2011, 03:23 AM #291
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I'm not saying that parents can change the kind of person a child will become in life. Perhaps the better way to say it is that parents have a significant long-term impact on whether or not the child will become that person.
Well, if the parents provide an unstable home, of course. The better way to make my point would be to say the parent doesn't need to do a lot to provide the kind of "nurturing" needed for nature to run its course.

Quote:
It is an aspect that Caplan doesn't speak to. He speaks of changing behavior, I'm talking about revealing behavior. I'd have to think a bit about what kind of study would measure that.
Revealing in what way?
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Old 06-05-2011, 04:00 PM #292
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Babies are not born gay.....its a choice by the person or parent guardian raising the child one way or another..... Being gay is just wrong
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Old 06-06-2011, 07:35 AM #293
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^ I couldn't agree more, why don't they just choose to be heterosexual like we did?
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Old 06-06-2011, 12:55 PM #294
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Born gay lol. Everybody has a choice of which hole to stick it in or lick.
yes, they do. so why do most of us pick the diamond-shaped one consistently? are we all just bowing to social pressures and self-interest, and the rest of them are deviants actively choosing to have sex with the same gender, time after time again?

point im trying to make is, sexual orientation came to me quite naturally, and im sure it did to you too. when some thick chick in a skimpy sun dress bends over to pick up her keys she dropped, you bet my eyes will wander over. when alejandro is parading around wet n' wild in his speedo, well, not so much.

so why would something that is instinct to you and i be a choice for others?

if you are going to come back like members such as RamboPreacher and claim that you actively choose to be attracted to females then feel free to perpetuate the argument for arguments sake. but i think you and i both know it does not make sense that some people CHOOSE what they are attracted to, when the rest of us straight folks are just naturally attracted to females.
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