[Tuff]

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2010...r-jets-saudis/

"WASHINGTON—The Obama administration plans to sell advanced F-15 fighter jets to Saudi Arabia but won't equip them with long-range weapons systems and other arms whose inclusion was strongly opposed by Israel, diplomats and officials said.

The proposed $30 billion, 10-year arms package, which would be one of the biggest single deals of its kind, has been a source of behind-the-scenes tension during months of negotiations. Israeli officials have repeatedly conveyed their concerns in private that the U.S. risks undermining its military advantage by equipping regional rivals with top-flight technologies."

Are we that desperate for cash?

Here's the kicker - many of you claim you were pro Israel. You're also Pro Obama. Looks like one of those has to give. Which one is it, because clearly if we make this sale, it goes against helping Israel "survive" which is one of our concerns - right?

The best part is "we will not equip them with weapons" - I'm thinking the Saudi's can eventually figure that part out in time. The jet is the more difficult component to build.

It's no secret Obama has distance his administration (and the country by default) from England a bit, our best ally. Here he is again doing it to another "ally". Smart? Think Congress will pass this?

[bnctaj]

1. Israel's never been an ally.
2. We've supported SA for the longest time; it's nothing new.
3. SA and Israel are not in direct confrontation with one another; this isn't the 70's.

[Gatyr]

This man can't do right no matter what he does, so any bickering that comes from this will fall on deaf ears for me.

I think it's a good move. In short, he is strengthening ties with one of the Middle Eastern states that has huge oil deposits, and he is taking a step to decrease the debt that has suddenly become a problem again now that a democrat is back in office. Israel's air force is the best in the world last I heard, so I doubt some older generation war planes are more than they can handle. I also doubt that the US didn't attach some qualifications for the sale, like not using them against US or allied (read: Israeli) forces, but that's just speculation.

[T-Vizz the 2nd]

Yeahh, the US sells it's older but still effective military things to other countries.

It's one of the few things the gvt dose to make money other than taxing.

By the way, the avionics are adjusted so they won't be quite as fast as the American counterparts.

[Wango_Tango]

BAHAHAAHAHA. You're getting pissy over this?

A few months ago, you were all pissing and moaning about Gates and Obama halting production of the F-22 at like half of what the Air Force requested. People were making note of how obsolete the F-15 was, both structurally and technologically. It was mentioned how India had Jets nd avionics that were easily on par with the F-15. Not to mention the Royal Saudi Air Force has had them for years

Now its a problem?

[bnctaj]

A year ago when the F22 was still being debated, the problem with F15's was that the majority of US operated ones were old enough to literally fall apart in the sky. Nevermind the lack of thrust vectoring or its other antiquidated tech. http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...022002774.html

[Tuff]

Originally Posted by Wango_Tango

BAHAHAAHAHA. You're getting pissy over this?

Me? No.

Israel? Seems that way.

Not sure if this will have any future ramifications that will come back to haunt us, maybe if they were to arm the planes and use them on Israel (and no they aren't fighting now, but things can change quick - something lost on some folks here)

[Overbear]

We have been selling SA, Turkey, Isreal, France, Spain, Egypt, and India our older F-15's (pre- E series) for 10+ years, whats the problem?

We make a ton of money off parts and service training for them, plus they have to come to us for weapon mounts, weapon platforms, ammo, and stuff like engines and other consumables.

[tuna]

The arms deal probably has nothing to do with Obama. Its probably the machinations of some military industrial complex *******s and their stoole pentagon bureaucrats. These deals are all incredibly corrupt. Its always the US taxpayer subsidizing the sales of extremely high profit military product, "because it aids the national interest" some bull**** like that.

[orionz06]

Originally Posted by tuna

These deals are all incredibly corrupt. Its always the US taxpayer subsidizing the sales of extremely high profit military product, "because it aids the national interest" some bull**** like that.

are you implying honest deals exist?

[Overbear]

Originally Posted by tuna

The arms deal probably has nothing to do with Obama. Its probably the machinations of some military industrial complex *******s and their stoole pentagon bureaucrats. These deals are all incredibly corrupt. Its always the US taxpayer subsidizing the sales of extremely high profit military product, "because it aids the national interest" some bull**** like that.

Narrow view is narrow.

[Krring]

This is capitalism and free trade. One of the best ways to ensure peace. So what's the problem?

[SuperSupra619 (Banned)]

Originally Posted by Overbear

We have been selling SA, Turkey, Isreal, France, Spain, Egypt, and India our older F-15's (pre- E series) for 10+ years, whats the problem?

We make a ton of money off parts and service training for them, plus they have to come to us for weapon mounts, weapon platforms, ammo, and stuff like engines and other consumables.

Why is this even news? America has been selling their outdated weapons systems to these countries for decades? I believe the Saudi's already have over 60 F15E's already anyway. American built aircraft owned by the RSAF already includes many fighters, transports, and choppers.

[Swerve22]

Originally Posted by tuna

The arms deal probably has nothing to do with Obama. Its probably the machinations of some military industrial complex *******s and their stoole pentagon bureaucrats. These deals are all incredibly corrupt. Its always the US taxpayer subsidizing the sales of extremely high profit military product, "because it aids the national interest" some bull**** like that.

Source on the bold. In order to be making extremely high profits it would have to be no bid contracts which makes no sense in the realm of production seeing as there is plenty of potential producers and a certain amount of transparency is mandated.

[Tuff]

Originally Posted by SuperSupra619

Why is this even news? America has been selling their outdated weapons systems to these countries for decades? I believe the Saudi's already have over 60 F15E's already anyway. American built aircraft owned by the RSAF already includes many fighters, transports, and choppers.

Well Israel is *****ing about it, so I was curious to see if anyone was going to consider their point of view of this news and suggest this would harm their standing in the Middle East.

[The Inflicted]

Don't forget that Iran still has some F-14 Tomcats.

[Overbear]

Originally Posted by The Inflicted

Don't forget that Iran still has some F-14 Tomcats.

Not that they do them a lick of good, we won't sell them the Phenoix missile systems, or any spare parts. From what I have dug up here and there, they are pretty much parked junk now.

[p8ntkid876]

The US is the worlds largest arms dealer. Who is honestly surprised? lol.

[SuperSupra619 (Banned)]

Originally Posted by Tuff

Well Israel is *****ing about it, so I was curious to see if anyone was going to consider their point of view of this news and suggest this would harm their standing in the Middle East.

The Saudi's pose no threat to Israel

[Swerve22]

Originally Posted by p8ntkid876

The US is the worlds largest arms dealer. Who is honestly surprised? lol.

You kinda remind me of Matrixballa sometimes.

[Overbear]

Originally Posted by p8ntkid876

The US is the worlds largest arms dealer. Who is honestly surprised? lol.

Whats the big deal? We make money, we make the best weapons/arms/jets/boats/tanks in the world, why wouldn't everyone else want what we have.