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Old 06-08-2010, 09:49 PM #1
Nemo128
 
 
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Dust Olive NME Project

So it's time to put all my efforts into this gun. Here's where I'm at.

The Dye Hyper3 inline reg is in and working. I have a Dye Airport UL ASA coming at the end of the week to replace the stock ASA.

Right now, it will not charge. I had it working previously so I'm guessing the LPR blew an o-ring again or something like that.

Since I'm trying to keep it looking NMEish (no vanilla looking LPR and front block), what is a sure way to set the LPR? Other guns I've seen have a recommended LPR number of turns or threads. The manual just says to turn it until it "works". Is there any good starting point, as far as number of threads or something? This gun has proven to be pretty annoying to work on, and I'm probably going to buy an Ego as my main since I love working on those by comparison.

However, this one will remain as a backup so I'd like to get the LPR going right. Last weekend, the gun would shoot a couple times and not recharge, even with the CP inline. It worked the week before. Any ideas?
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Old 06-09-2010, 10:41 PM #2
rzhukov
 
 
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Your gauge on front block will show LPR pressure, it does not show HPR pressure like most other markers. Set it to 70-80 PSI and you should be good to go.
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Old 06-09-2010, 11:31 PM #3
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The front block guage on almost all markers shows the LPR reading and not the HPR. I don't know of a single marker that has a guage on the front block that is for the HPR. Many HPRs have a guage port.
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Old 06-09-2010, 11:33 PM #4
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When the gauge was working, adjusting the HPR would change the gauge reading. That's how I blew it.
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Old 06-10-2010, 12:54 PM #5
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same happened with me when i first got an NME. I read in the manual that the gauge was for the LPR, but noticed that it also moved when adjusting the HPR.

it took a while for me to get the hang of it
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Old 06-10-2010, 01:09 PM #6
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Agreed, so that being said, how do you adjust the LPR correctly? Just keep messing with both while the LPR stays at 50-60?
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Old 06-10-2010, 02:42 PM #7
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The HPR feeds air to the LPR. The LPR further regulates it down for the solenoid. When initially setting the HPR, if it is at a pressure lower than the LPR, the LPR pressure will increase as you increase the pressure on the HPR. This will cause the LPR gauge to move. When the LPR pressure hits what it is set at, the gauge will stop moving and further increases in the HPR will not significantly affect the LPR. Also decreasing the HPR will not affect the LPR gauge unless it is decreased below what the LPR is set at.

Example, if the LPR is set at 80 psi and the HPR is at 50 psi, increasing the HPR will move the LPR gauge until it hits 80 psi. Then the LPR gauge will stop increasing. If the LPR is set at 80 psi, and the HPR is set at 100 psi, decreasing the HPR below 80 psi will cause the LPR reading to drop as you decrease the HPR.

Basically, since the HPR feeds the LPR, anytime their pressures are equal it will cause the LPR gauge to move. This should only happen when you first are setting pressures. In normal operation, decreasing or increasing the HPR should not affect the LPR gauge. If it does your pressures are set way wrong. This holds true of all markers and is not unique to the NME.

To set your marker, first back out both the HPR and LPR to zero. Then set the HPR above 80 psi. Four or five threads in on the HPR adjuster screw should accomplish this. Now increase the LPR until it is between 75 and 80 psi. Now increase or decrease the HPR as needed to reach the proper velocity (you don't care about HPR psi at this point as every marker will have a different psi when at proper velocity).

If you have a pressure tester you can put on your HPR, you can just back everything out to zero, set the HPR around 200 psi, then set the LPR to 75 - 80 psi, and then increase or decrease the HPR to reach the desired velocity.
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Old 06-10-2010, 04:32 PM #8
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tj, holy crap that was a good explanation. =)

I'm used to working with real guns for my job, so I'm still need to markers. I know machining and manufacturing, but I didn't know any of that about the regulators on the marker.

Now that I know how to properly mess with them, I will test this out tomorrow and report back. At least now I know what's really going on inside of them. Maybe I won't have to replace the LPR.
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Old 06-21-2010, 04:01 PM #9
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I broke the marker down literally to every piece, including pulling out the ram sleeve and checking the cup seal.

Man was it dirty... putting it all back together, but I might buy some internal lines and replace them. Also got the Alias block and LPR ordered.

Update soon.
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Old 06-22-2010, 02:19 PM #10
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Glad I could help :-)

There is lots of information at this link about how various markers, regulators, etc work:

http://www.zdspb.com/tech/index.html

Here is an animation of an intimidator. The NME is identical in operation.



What you can't see is the flow of low pressure air vs. high pressure air. Basically air feeds into the HPR from your ASA, that air goes into the front block which directs it in two different places. First air is forced against the valve poppet assisting the spring in keeping the poppet in place and holding the valve closed. Second air is directed in to the LPR where it is regulated down further and directed out of the LPR and into the solenoid (through the air barb in located on the front block of a Timmy, or on an NME through the air barb on the outside of the LPR, through the hose, and then passing straight through the front block via the barbs on either side). The low pressure air feeds into the solenoid which controls whether it is directed to the back of the ram of front of the ram. Air directed to the back of the ram causes it (and the bolt) to move forward, striking the poppet and opening the valve allowing high pressure air to escape up through the bolt, and out the barrel. Air directed to the front of the ram causes it (and the bolt) to move back into the resting or cocked position which allows the high pressure air and spring to push the poppet back into place closing the valve.
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Old 06-28-2010, 11:14 PM #11
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Interesting problem with this one now.

I gas it up and it's leaking from the front of the ram. It's not leaking down the barrel so I'm guessing the cup seal is fine.

I totally broke down the marker, including removing the ram sleeve and cleaning everything out. I replaced the o-rings on the ram and the poppet. Still it's leaking from the front of the ram. It's not coming from the poppet though. I'm almost 100% positive it's coming from the area where the noid feeds into the front of the ram, but that o-ring looks fine and lubed properly.

Maybe if I leave it for a bit to swell the o-ring? It's whistle clean now and everything is back together right now, but the leak exists even with the HPR at minimum pressure (Dye Hyper3 now).
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Old 06-29-2010, 12:02 AM #12
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Front of the ram?

Lube the lpr assembly, it might have a slight leak thats overpressurizing the marker with high pressure air.

replace and lube the valve orings.

Replace the ram orings again, just in case.

good luck. NMEs are total workhorse markers, my teammate has an NME LE that has shot great for over 4 years, no orings replaced. It's a helluva marker.
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Old 06-29-2010, 08:42 AM #13
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I'll try that tonight. Interesting side note, I put a gauge on the front block and it's not reading anything from the LPR. I put it in my other NME just to make sure the gauge is good and the AKA SCMIII on that NME is outputting a steady 50psi.
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Old 06-29-2010, 08:18 PM #14
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LPR is checked and it's not the source.

I increased the HPR a lot and the gauge on the front block barely moved, topping out at just below 40psi. The leak from the front of the ram is not slight, it's very huge.

According to tj's animation above, the leak is coming from the chamber where the ram strikes the poppet. It's not forcing the ram back, it just leaks.

Ideas? I'm going to swap rams from my other NME and see if the ram is potentially damaged. It looks a big chipped up.
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Old 06-29-2010, 08:52 PM #15
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Ok, swapped the ram and the leak stopped. The original ram looks pretty chipped up, so I think the o-ring couldn't seal it up right.
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Old 06-30-2010, 12:06 AM #16
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I was just going to suggest the front ram o-ring. That type of leak is usually either that, the front ram sleeve o-ring, the poppit o-ring, or the cup seal.

You might be able to get it to seal if you replace it with a new o-ring and give it a thick coat of Dow 55 to make it swell. Dow 55 is the only lube that will swell o-rings, so if you don't have Dow 55 it won't work.
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Old 06-30-2010, 10:48 AM #17
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I'll try that. New development.

I notice that the spring pin is basically sitting on a flat surface. I left off the LPR body to see how it functions, and it works far better without any o-ring on the pin. With an o-ring it sputters and flows inconsistently. Then I inspected the sitting of the pin to the piston using a marking ink. It basicaly shifts around as you tighten the adjuster tip at the end.

I took out the dremel and made a small pitch in the center of the piston base. Now the pin sits directly center when I reinstall it and it flows smooth as silk.

However, the adjuster pin also is screwed out ridiculously far from the LPR body. I'm going to test out some different springs I have to see if I can get it sitting more within the body while allowing the same adjustability.
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Old 07-05-2010, 04:43 PM #18
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Anyone have a spare NME LPR? I need a valve pin.
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Old 07-10-2010, 09:30 PM #19
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Pin solved.

Anyone have a spare ram?
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Old 07-14-2010, 07:03 PM #20
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FYI fellow NME lovers. You can use Ego/Etek3 detents in the NME. Back them with an 004 o-ring and they don't move at all.

They're slightly shorter than the Timmy detents, so I bet they'll be softer on paint and the bolt glides over them effortlessly.

I needed new detents for one of my NMEs and the wife's Etek3 came with 2 extra sets. She suggested I try them, so I made it work.
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Old 07-15-2010, 08:05 PM #21
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Good to know, hope you get that olive NME back in good working shape
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