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Old 05-21-2010, 12:44 AM #1
Syrcuse
 
 
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Who catches sandbaggers?

Sandbagger
In paintball a person or team of a higher level plays as a lower level team to win. Such as an Amature team playing a novice event.

Who's responsible for making sure everyone plays at the correct skill level?
Since when are pro's allowed to play as a rookie or novice player?
Is it customary to allow sandbagging in tournaments at a national event?

I thought our overly priced id badge was to police people from sandbagging.
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Old 05-21-2010, 09:50 AM #2
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Pros aren't allowed to play as rookie or novice, they can play d1 (semi-pro) in the nppl or semi-pro in psp but thats the lowest division they can play.
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Old 05-21-2010, 05:19 PM #3
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Syrcuse View Post
Sandbagger
In paintball a person or team of a higher level plays as a lower level team to win. Such as an Amature team playing a novice event.

Who's responsible for making sure everyone plays at the correct skill level?
Since when are pro's allowed to play as a rookie or novice player?
Is it customary to allow sandbagging in tournaments at a national event?

I thought our overly priced id badge was to police people from sandbagging.

How is 40 dollars over priced?


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Old 05-21-2010, 05:35 PM #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by usafpilot07 View Post
How is 40 dollars over priced?


Welcome to paintball.
This guy created a new account just to post this. I guess he's too scared to post whatever it is he's trying to accomplish with his real account.

@OP: If you have a supported claim against a team, report it to NPPL officials. Don't drag it out online, especially on PBN.
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Old 05-22-2010, 09:42 AM #5
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I posted not to bust people out, just to find out whos job it is to police the sandbaggers.I know for a fact theres people on here that are way out of there class playing at a much lower class.I also know for a fact that Frank Connel knows these people personally.So i was just wondering whos job was it to say,"No you cant play in this class"
And 40 dollars .It used to be 10 dollars.So for 40 dollars we should get 4 times better policing of sandbaggers ,right?I dont mind the 40 dllars as long as its being put to good use.
And before you guys come on here and start bashing me,know this, im a player and im here for the players.not the promoters.This will keep going on in this sport until the players put a stop to it.
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Old 05-23-2010, 05:42 PM #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NPPL Super 7 View Post
We try and catch "sandbaggers" before they actually play. Every roster is checked, and then double checked before every event.
Interesting. Before NPPL took the HB rosters down from the website, I manually checked some of the rosters listed online. Of the top 4 teams in D3 and D4 5-man (8 total), two had rosters listed that were definitely illegal, and another two had rosters listed that I was 95% sure were illegal - and that was just based on the information available to me. Some of the rosters did not even have all the players listed, unless there were 7-man teams playing the whole weekend with 6 players. It should be pretty obvious that a team that only has 6 players rostered is playing with an illegal player. Who knows how many teams had 7 players rostered and were playing with 8?


Quote:
We have done a virtually perfect job so far....
How do you know you're doing a virtually perfect job? The thing about stopping illegal rosters is that there is no way to tell the difference between having no illegal rosters and having lots of illegal rosters you are not catching. Of course, the harder you are looking for illegal rosters, the more likely it is there actually are not any, but NPPL isn't looking very hard if I checked 8 rosters and at least a quarter if not half of them were illegal, not to mention the teams allowed to play without having their rosters completed.

Not catching anyone is actually pretty good evidence that you're missing illegal rosters. It's paintball. SOMEBODY out there always thinks they can beat the system. A solid software system will stop the "innocent" people who would play with illegal rosters just because they didn't take the time to figure out what all their players were classed, but the people who are willfully trying to circumvent the system are much sneakier. I know the vast majority of those people that we catch we do so through methods NPPL simply does not have available.


I (obviously) think the membership fee is reasonable. Doing the job right is not inexpensive. I think the objection your players may have is they are paying the price to have the job done right, but not having the job done.


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Last edited by raehl : 05-23-2010 at 07:46 PM.
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Old 05-23-2010, 05:57 PM #7
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Man, I sure enjoy it when Raehl comes in here to bash his competition.


What's this, like 4 years running now?
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Old 05-23-2010, 07:15 PM #8
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Isn't it kind of difficult to have a 4-year feud with a system that's been in place for a year?

The concern seems pretty legit from here. While some of the commentary may seem abrasive, it bears remembering that there's a lot of people at the "low levels" putting out a pretty good amount of money, and they should expect to not have to go up against people who are well above their division. I know that if I put out the bucks to play D4 myself, and found myself facing a team propped up by D2/D1 players, I'd be angry. Only thing that would likely make me angrier is finding out myself rather than having the system catch it.

Now, as a qualifier here, I'm not an NPPL guy, nor am I a PSP guy. I don't have the funding to play either circuit, and my location isn't exactly what one could call a paintball Mecca. We do have a relatively local D2 team in one of the leagues, and I wouldn't care to have to play for points/money/beers against them. So, while I don't have day in-day out experience dealing with either league, I can certainly understand why this sort of thing would be a concern.
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Old 05-23-2010, 07:25 PM #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Pump Scout View Post
Isn't it kind of difficult to have a 4-year feud with a system that's been in place for a year?

.
His feud isn't with the current system, it's with the NPPL for not using his. He's done this a bunch of times. Otherwise, I wouldn't have said anything.

EDIT for clarification:

It's great to be proud of your system. The APPA is a succesful one, and has every right to be proud of it. But at the same time, it's not okay to go into your competitor's area and bash them. If another company rep from say, Planet Eclipse, went into a Team Subforum that shot Dye and started to bash Dye products, people would see it as a problem. How is his post any different?
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Last edited by usafpilot07 : 05-23-2010 at 07:29 PM.
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Old 05-23-2010, 07:50 PM #10
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Without rooting for team A or team B it's a legitimate concern. Why wouldn't somebody with insight share their facts?

Maybe your idea of bashing should be adjusted to shared wisdom.
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Old 05-23-2010, 08:07 PM #11
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Well, here's another way to put it.

If the NPPL system works, why was your staff calling my customers before/during HB trying to get them to look up players in APPA for you?


I'm not upset. I'm just amused that NPPL's original roster checking plan was apparently to steal access to APPA.


I think the players would be more interested to know how teams with illegal rosters placed in HB though. And I'm not talking about teams who had players playing under aliases or fake IDs or playing on-field without being listed on the roster. Sometimes you can't get those folks until after the fact. I'm talking about rosters I was able to determine were illegal using only the player names NPPL had posted online and other information that NPPL also has access to.


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Last edited by raehl : 05-23-2010 at 08:20 PM.
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Old 05-23-2010, 08:26 PM #12
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I for one would love to know. I'm sure many others would too.
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Old 05-23-2010, 09:19 PM #13
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the appa is honestly the only way to catch them. i know that they base your nppl rank off of your ranking in the appa, for a fact.
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Old 05-24-2010, 11:41 AM #14
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Here is what I don't understand. We are paying the same price for IDs in both psp and nppl (not sure what I paid for psp but it's close). So I would think that the nppl could just give that money to appa and they would take care of catching people just like the psp. The players are the ones paying for the ID system and it should not be a way to MAKE extra money for the nppl, every penny should be used to stop cheating and make the entire registration process as easy as possible. So if we are already paying for it, if you ask the players I'm sure they would rather us appa and not the new system. If the nppl wants to make more money they will have to get more teams or sell tshirts or something. But an ID card should not be a way for a players league to make money.
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Old 05-24-2010, 04:35 PM #15
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Its nice to see that Nppl actually removed some pros from d2.Keep up the good work and catching the sandbaggers and making this a enjoyable tournament for all participants.
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Old 05-24-2010, 05:59 PM #16
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appa would be nice with the money we spend on an ID
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Old 05-24-2010, 06:10 PM #17
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i don't understand why they wouldn't use appa
it works, it's been around longer, and is all around more effective

plus, you don't have to work more, all you have to do is have that ID card money go to Chris, and let him do the rest.
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Old 05-24-2010, 06:25 PM #18
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 1cheeselova View Post
i don't understand why they wouldn't use appa
it works, it's been around longer, and is all around more effective

plus, you don't have to work more, all you have to do is have that ID card money go to Chris, and let him do the rest.
I imagine this is why. Trying to find a cheaper solution than appa.
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Old 05-24-2010, 06:27 PM #19
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most likely it...
If you can make you're own system that'd be great, unless the players become unhappy with it
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Old 05-24-2010, 08:51 PM #20
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I hope all the rosters get straightened out within the next week...

It does seem odd to me, though, that when I registered for my Player's ID, I got to select what ranking I wanted hahaha
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Old 05-25-2010, 09:20 AM #21
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