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Old 05-17-2010, 06:46 PM #1
DRoper412
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Geo Air efficiency, and kick problems

Love my Geo, shoots... Ok, teammates of mine shoots AMAZING. He has the GST kit, and I don't... I also don't have the money on hand after paying for Open fee's and so on... So, is there anyway I can lower my kick, and increase shots per tank w/o a GST kit.

Unless someone wants to trade one to me.

Any help = Much thanks.

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Old 05-18-2010, 01:36 AM #2
Uziel Gal
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Unfortunately, the adjustments you would make to a stock Geo to minimise kick (generally, back out the VVC, increase dwell, and lower the HPR pressure) are pretty much the exact opposite of how you would set it up to maximise efficiency. The ST kit is different in so much as it takes a physical approach to reducing kick - slowing the bolt cycle - which is present irrespective of how you then go on to tune the marker. Some people have also seen an efficiency increase just from installing the ST kit.

Doesn't help you if you don't have the cash, but the ST kit really is the way ahead if you want to reduce kick further without taking an efficiency hit.

On a more generalised basis, make sure your bolt tip o-ring is in good condition so that you don't have excessive blowback; clean the back check ball and make sure it isn't damaged; make sure that the ball isn't less than 4.00mm in diameter; eliminate any leaks in your bottle and marker; make sure the vent hole in the can is just a pin hole, no larger; use a good bore fit - don't overbore.

Last edited by Uziel Gal : 05-18-2010 at 03:17 PM. Reason: Typo.
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Old 05-18-2010, 08:32 AM #3
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Save up for the GST......not much else you can do to get anywhere near what a GST equipped Geo will shoot like.
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Old 05-18-2010, 08:57 AM #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Brules View Post
Save up for the GST......not much else you can do to get anywhere near what a GST equipped Geo will shoot like.
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Old 05-18-2010, 10:37 AM #5
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Old 05-18-2010, 05:50 PM #6
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Does the GST improve the efficiency, or just the feel of the shot. I have heard PE won't go on record saying it will help efficiency.
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Old 05-18-2010, 06:07 PM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DRoper412 View Post
Does the GST improve the efficiency, or just the feel of the shot. I have heard PE won't go on record saying it will help efficiency.
Because they wont, for some it helps efficiency, and for some it doesnt. Im sure xluben will be here in a minute haha.
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Old 05-18-2010, 06:21 PM #8
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from what im reading you can either tune to improve shot or increase efficeincy with a stock geo. If dropping in the GST improves shot then you can tune for efficiency and have the best of both worlds....ish.
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Old 05-18-2010, 06:51 PM #9
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I've had the GST Kit in my Geo since it launched. I have not seen an improvement in efficiency whatsoever. Just an improvement in kick, sound, smoothness and stability.
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Old 05-18-2010, 06:59 PM #10
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Some people have seen an efficiency increase just by installing the ST kit, but it is just a bonus for those who do. The ST kit wasn't designed to increase efficiency - that was never it's purpose.

The ST kit started off as a new bolt design to prevent cycling issues that the Geo had when used at very low velocity, and/or with Reballs. As the bolt starts to move forward, but before the air is released to fire the ball, if the bolt's face is sealed by a ball, a vacuum will form, sucking the ball back against the bolt. This restricts the bolts ability to move forwards. Combined with low dwell and HPR pressures, this can cause the bolt to fail to cycle correctly.

The ported face that was chosen holds the ball away from the face of the bolt, preventing the ball from sealing the front of the bolt. Diffusing the air blast may also make the bolt better able to handle super fragile paint.

Volume restrictors (only used when looking to lower the velocity) were then added, to allow you to reduce the marker's velocity without having to drop the dwell value or HPR pressure, further assisting to prevent cycling issues.

A new can was then developed, with less porting. Less porting meant slower venting of the air holding back the bolt, which in turn meant slower acceleration of the bolt. This again had two advantages, reducing kick, and reducing the force with which the bolt would hit a ball, again helping you shoot super fragile paint.

Those are the intended features of the ST kit. Efficiency doesn't come in to it. It just so happens that some people have seen an efficiency increase on top of the other results. If you were looking to buy an ST *purely* for a possible efficiency increase, then you may be disappointed, but then again, you would be buying it for the wrong reasons anyway.
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Old 05-18-2010, 07:11 PM #11
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Well, the time I had my Geo with the GST, it shot just as efficient as my original well used bolt....

While if I remember since I bought it in the beginning, the efficientcy has improved alot till the time I swapped to the GST.


So, by using my far fetched, sleep deprived, mental conclusion.... The GST bolt will improved on kick and sound signature compared to a well used broken in bolt, but owners with newer Geos MAY also find an improvement by changing to the GST.....


Now it's time fort morning coffee
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Old 05-19-2010, 07:55 AM #12
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with GST efficiency will be about the same, kick will be much less noticeable along with sound pattern.

If yoiu want less kick and sound w/o GST, try to reduce HPR, keep a high dwell and screw all the way back that chamber screw that is in the back part of the body. That however may reduce your efficiency.
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