Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

Closed Thread
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-18-2010, 09:04 AM #43
Jack Rice
 
 
Jack Rice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sacramento
Jack Rice works for a Paintball manufacturer
Jack Rice posts videos on PbNation
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fenix View Post
I think you're missing the point. It's simple really, it is not good business to say "yeah, our product is great, but you can get something as good or better with more as well." Does not make sense for Jack not to defend his product while "attacking" the competitor.
If you read how this started someone said that Creed was way, way, way, way, better than my product of 4 years ago. I countered that my product was better than their Taiwan product and the gun I shot was not a very good gun. Also that players that did use their guns have startup problems.

Also Eric comes to my house, the grandson of my wifes best family friends - pretends to be interested in my guns - I'm talking to him as a friend and potential customer and he's spying on me. Someone wants to bring ethics into this????
You Guys are all welcome to do all the tests you want - I did a video (in one take) it's on the site others have done their own testing. But I am interested only in those that I know to be unbiased.

Eric - I will be civil at events, but you are not welcome at my home. To come to my shop, when you are a competitor and not tell me. Are you kidding, I was asking what it would take to sponsor your team. That was a good time to tell me the truth, instead of saying you'll talk to your team. Why should I now think you will tell the truth about any testing we may do.

As to Jim: my secret rooter - really 6 years rooting for me and never a post - but now your first post that your are disappointed and I have lost the potential sale - in another 6 years?

Personally... I would bet the farm you guys are only here trying to make hay for Creed. Think about it, if this all wasn't started under Paul's direction how did he find this so fast. I don't go looking for anything about my company all over the Nation. I have a company to run.

I have been doing this for 6 years and have not had anywhere near this bad a taste in my mouth over another company. I didn't go out and attack them. But I did bring this on. I'm a big boy and I knew not to get into a mud fight with a pig when only the pig enjoys it. But I will defend my product when attacked.
__________________
Alien
www.alienpb.com
"Just shoot one. You'll see"
Jack Rice is offline  
Old Sponsored Links Remove Advertisement
Advertisement
Old 04-18-2010, 09:56 AM #44
paul_gun
Designer For Hire
 
paul_gun's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
paul_gun works for a Paintball manufacturer
How dare you accuse me of starting this thread!!!

I am an independent product designer and haven't worked directly for vanguard in over 18 months. I like to look out for products i have designed and see what is being said about them.

Its not difficult to find a thread its called the search all you do is type creed in..........

i came into this thread to put right things you had said about the creed in order to big up your own product.


If you are prepared to have vs threads then be prepared for people to come in and comment on both guns good or bad.
paul_gun is offline  
Old 04-18-2010, 10:39 AM #45
SHOOTNPOO
MACDEV MASTER US TECH
 
SHOOTNPOO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
SHOOTNPOO works for a Paintball manufacturer
SHOOTNPOO plays in the USPL
SHOOTNPOO posts videos on PbNation
[QUOTE Also Eric comes to my house, the grandson of my wifes best family friends - pretends to be interested in my guns - I'm talking to him as a friend and potential customer and he's spying on me. Someone wants to bring ethics into this????
You Guys are all welcome to do all the tests you want - I did a video (in one take) it's on the site others have done their own testing. But I am interested only in those that I know to be unbiased.
Eric - I will be civil at events, but you are not welcome at my home. To come to my shop, when you are a competitor and not tell me. Are you kidding, I was asking what it would take to sponsor your team. That was a good time to tell me the truth, instead of saying you'll talk to your team. Why should I now think you will tell the truth about any testing we may do. QUOTE]



Jack, as you have said Yes I am a competitor, but i have no intentions and never did have any intentions of ruining what you have going. I think you need to calm down a little bit and think what you are saying to me and others here on the nation. You are pretty much in terms calling me out saying Im a lier. Well good sir you are wrong and this shows what type of representation you are showing for your customers now and future of Alien Paintball. I want to thank you for your time at your home where you showed me the markers. Yes it was for a team of mine due to they were not sure if they wanted to shoot the creeds or not. From here going on today I will do my test on you marker along with one of ours to show all that all your aggressive hype you are bringing to the table has no BACK TO IT!!!!!!!!!!!! I dont ever think I have been this excited to prove someone wrong. So with that being said I will have a Magazine to the VS testing an unbias 3rd party. I will buy one of Jacks 2010 or he can send one to the Magazine editor or writer who is known for great reviews & VS write ups.
If Jack thinks his marker is so superior to ours please, Jack Lets really see what you got send in a marker. I will contact X3 magazine today and have him do a VS thread. I will not in any way influence him to say or do anything. I want an honest 3rd party opinion about Aliens marker and the Vanguard. I know the out come already but we will see. So Jack I will call X3 and you may call X3 and lets set this up. We can Call Josh Silverman who is the head writer and Marker review editor. I would recommend you to do the same by calling him and setting up a marker to come to him. It would be a great write up saying Vanguard Vs Alian but where is the Alien marker.

Thanks with all respect
Eric

P.S.
Jack you knew i owned and was a tech for specific companies prior to writing you thoughts here on the nation.

Last edited by SHOOTNPOO : 04-18-2010 at 10:52 AM.
SHOOTNPOO is offline  
Old 04-18-2010, 10:40 AM #46
Jack Rice
 
 
Jack Rice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sacramento
Jack Rice works for a Paintball manufacturer
Jack Rice posts videos on PbNation
Quote:
Originally Posted by paul_gun View Post
i came into this thread to put right things you had said about the creed in order to big up your own product.
I said that it was made it Taiwan and was not very good quality - your correction was that for 6 months they were made in the UK.

Other corrections is your guarantee that your guns take longer to mill - you have no idea which gun takes longer to mill. Proof that you have no intention of making accurate statements.

As far as daring who started this - your protestations only go agaist me - not as to an apology for the "other ways" your company has handeled this - I guess "your' may not be accurate. Some made it seem as you were the originatior of Creed -perhaps not - but it is obvious that I don't car enough to start a fight with you guys but you "guys" wanted a fight with me, I think that is waht you were referring to as "bigging up"
__________________
Alien
www.alienpb.com
"Just shoot one. You'll see"
Jack Rice is offline  
Old 04-18-2010, 11:12 AM #47
Paintballwifey
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Paintballwifey is for the Gunfight
Jack,

To say that Eric and I came to your house for anything other to just see your marker is just plain disrespectful. Dave told us for weeks how excited he was about your marker and Eric wanted to see it too. At that point he wasn't working for Vanguard. He was just a tech, just like he is a certified ego tech. We did not come under any other intention. He didn't ask any questions or see anything that he could not have seen on the internet or from purchasing the marker himself. It's not like he walked in and started taking pictures with a spy camera or asked about your top secret dealings. And if I do remember correctly, he told you flat out that he was a creed tech and the two of you were discussing the differences between the two, like two normal people.

I understand that you feel like you are being blasted but you really need to take a step back and re-read your responses before you hit post. What you say in the heat of the moment will come back to bite you in the ***. I wish nothing but success for you and truly hope that your current dealings work out for you, but I won't standby while you tell lies about my family.

I will make sure that no more employees of Vanguard post in your thread as this thread was started by a customer of yours who was looking for information before making a purchase. I hope that we can squash this here and now, before anyone says anything they will really regret.
__________________
~Kat~
Customer Service Manager
Vanguard US

www.vanguardus.com
www.vanguardpaintball.com
Paintballwifey is offline  
Old 04-18-2010, 12:14 PM #48
kaboose01
Its whatever....
 
kaboose01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: United States
kaboose01 has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
kaboose01 has achieved Level 2 in PbNation Pursuit
kaboose01 supports Empire
everyone just needs to take a chill strip for a bit and sit and breathe lol

this is why Vs threads are so hard to have
__________________
ALIEN ARMY
kaboose01 is offline  
Old 04-18-2010, 01:40 PM #49
iday10
Insane in the Membrane
 
iday10's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Guys, take a break. All of you make fantastic products, and all of you are entitled to be a bit suspicious of your competition; any company that isn't would go the way of AKA and AGD after the Smartparts incident. I checked out an Alien at Phoenix. (I was the guy on sunday in shorts who hadn't shaved in awhile and who actually knew a bit about Aliens).

Long story short it is an incredible piece of engineering, right up there with my RX and other high end guns I've owned. Great fit and finish on the parts, nice thin frame (Yup, I'm a thin-frame guy for any gun with a 68/45, especially longer ones) and some great workmanship. Considering how small a company Alien is he has every right to be a bit concerned that someone might want some of that goodness for themselves, and it is far from unheard of for best friends to turn on each other once money gets involved.
__________________
Lady Vampire Cyborg RX with Gold bolt, Sync chip, and Acid Customs CF trigger.
Vintage Diablo Matrix with Evolve Gold Bolt kit, AKA LPR, Tadao 5.0 board, Dual 7.62 AK47 Volumizers, Tequila breech, Redz leverlock, Shocktech ASA, and Hyper2.


Huzzah for Epic MD Mod Thread!

Macdev Militia
iday10 is offline  
Old 04-18-2010, 02:20 PM #50
SHOOTNPOO
MACDEV MASTER US TECH
 
SHOOTNPOO's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
SHOOTNPOO works for a Paintball manufacturer
SHOOTNPOO plays in the USPL
SHOOTNPOO posts videos on PbNation
No one is turning on one another. We are just making thinks known within the forums that we all need to help each other out and not degrade anyone as for what they use, buy or want. By someone making this personal remarks make
me think of how it will come
out
in the end

Last edited by SHOOTNPOO : 04-18-2010 at 03:05 PM.
SHOOTNPOO is offline  
Old 04-18-2010, 02:29 PM #51
kaboose01
Its whatever....
 
kaboose01's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: United States
kaboose01 has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
kaboose01 has achieved Level 2 in PbNation Pursuit
kaboose01 supports Empire
Quote:
Originally Posted by iday10 View Post
Guys, take a break. All of you make fantastic products, and all of you are entitled to be a bit suspicious of your competition; any company that isn't would go the way of AKA and AGD after the Smartparts incident. I checked out an Alien at Phoenix. (I was the guy on sunday in shorts who hadn't shaved in awhile and who actually knew a bit about Aliens).

Long story short it is an incredible piece of engineering, right up there with my RX and other high end guns I've owned. Great fit and finish on the parts, nice thin frame (Yup, I'm a thin-frame guy for any gun with a 68/45, especially longer ones) and some great workmanship. Considering how small a company Alien is he has every right to be a bit concerned that someone might want some of that goodness for themselves, and it is far from unheard of for best friends to turn on each other once money gets involved.
i just think that the Rx would have been a more relevant arguement than the creed seeing as they run the most identical systems. now if jack was to ever go through with the balance valve he had talked about then this comparison with the creed have been better... if not more heated.

and i agree it is good to keep a watchful eye out for your opponents and not let them step on you. but dont let them get to ya ether. which goes for both the techs and the companyowners
__________________
ALIEN ARMY
kaboose01 is offline  
Old 04-18-2010, 03:03 PM #52
ericthepaintballguy
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: San Diego
ericthepaintballguy plays in the APPA D5 division
This is quite fun and entertaining to read

Both your markers are fabulous. Stop bickering with each other as I am pretty sure you are both still behind Planet Eclipse in Ego sales.

If you read consumer remarks in many of these threads on Pbnation, both your products clearly out perform the Ego. So PE should be the target of your animosity and not each other.

HECK I'm a believer! I traded away my '08 Ego and Sl8r for my Indy and Creed. Let's get both these markers out there in the market and help grow both your companies!!!
ericthepaintballguy is offline  
Old 04-18-2010, 06:22 PM #53
fsugonoles63
The voices are back
 
fsugonoles63's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Kenosha
fsugonoles63 supports Team VICIOUS
fsugonoles63 is for the Gunfight
Wow, sorry guys. I didnt want this to cause so much arguing. Now, Im still undecided on which gun I want. I will try to hold them both at nppl chicago. Now, my next question is when will Alien be changing their packaging for their markers? I saw Jack said that he was but never said the time they will be doing it.

Thanks
fsugonoles63 is offline  
Old 04-18-2010, 10:16 PM #54
Jack Rice
 
 
Jack Rice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sacramento
Jack Rice works for a Paintball manufacturer
Jack Rice posts videos on PbNation
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHOOTNPOO View Post
I think you need to calm down a little bit and think what you are saying to me and others here on the nation. You are pretty much in terms calling me out saying Im a lier...
I'm calm, was calm when I saw you at Huntington Beach. Disappointed in you but calm. Several of you from Creed have now been here with more than a couple of half-truths and whole distortions. Paul says" I can guarantee it takes longer to mill a Creed, when he has no idea which takes longer. Your last one may be the most telling
Quote:
Originally Posted by SHOOTNPOO View Post
I dont ever think I have been this excited to prove someone wrong.
Not even the pretense of fairness. Haven't done any testing yet - but will make the results prove the stated conclusion.

You could have said that, after being to the shop and seeing the quality of the gun bodies, the rammers, the extra care in the Cup Seal valve bodies and the bolts, that the quality of the ND was as good as anything in the industry. That would have been the thoughtful and honest approach. Then asked for a more civil approach to you gun. Rather you chose to futher elevate the conflict. Then your Wife's comment that I was disrespectful. Sorry, but I haven't experienced a lot that merits respect.

I received a email yesterday on PBN
It's " ", I saw you at Davis today and you let me shoot your 2010 Indy. I was the guy with Black Grillz and the White SL94. I was wondering if i were to trade my SL94 for an Indy on pbnation would you be able to tune/tech it to shoot the way you had yours shooting? If so, that'd be awesome. Let me know, thanks!
That's the response to the ND from real players who actually shoot the gun.

As to your proposal, I think I will stay calm by staying with what I'm doing and having as little to do with you as practical.
__________________
Alien
www.alienpb.com
"Just shoot one. You'll see"
Jack Rice is offline  
Old 04-18-2010, 10:27 PM #55
tall white guy
^I regret this^
 
tall white guy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Illinois
Annual Supporting Member
tall white guy is an NCPA player
tall white guy plays in the APPA D4 division
Quote:
Originally Posted by fsugonoles63 View Post
Wow, sorry guys. I didnt want this to cause so much arguing. Now, Im still undecided on which gun I want. I will try to hold them both at nppl chicago. Now, my next question is when will Alien be changing their packaging for their markers? I saw Jack said that he was but never said the time they will be doing it.

Thanks
They will be, i saw it in someother thread. My advice pm or email jack as this thread is heading towards a lock very quickly
tall white guy is offline  
Old 04-19-2010, 09:11 AM #56
Jim
 
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: New Jersey
Jim is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
Jim has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
I debated replying to this post because at this point it is almost worthless. Let's just say paintball is a very subjective sport where people will chose what feels best to them. People have their opinions and are entitled to them.

Now, to Jack. I don't work for Vanguard. I have no association with the company other than owning one of their guns. Same association as when I owned a WDP, WGP, or any other manufacturer's product. As for "secretly rooting for you", why yes I did. I remember when you were posting your ideas in the custom markers forum before you ever produced anything. You were a man with a vision and I respect you for following through with what you wanted. I've been on PBN longer than you and have few posts to show for it. That doesn't mean I don't read, just that it is usually not worth my time and effort to post something.

With that being said what I buy, again, is subjective to what I feel is the best. I have only seen one Alien gun in my years of playing (08 Alien Indy) and when I shot it, I didn't come away with a "wow" sensation. It shot fine, broke no paint, and seemed to be machined nicely, but I found it to shoot no further than any other gun I have played with. At times you make it seem that someone will pick up the gun and notice an immediate difference and other times you say the effects are not noticeable in a game.

For example, in this very thread MstrKey, who own both guns, says he notices no difference in the way the guns shoot, only that he feels (again talking subjectively) that the Creed is smoother. Right after that you tell him to do this rediculious test with a pole and this and that and how the effects may not be easily recongnized in a game. Yet, when you announced XSV was shooting the guns you mentioned how off the break they had to aim at the opponents feet cause they were shooting over their heads. Would that not qualify as noticable?

Regardless, this is my final post regarding this. I understand you're in the business of selling guns and will do whatever you can to gather a piece of a very crowded market. You should feel you have a superior product as you are the one who owns the company. I just find it alarming when an owner feels the need to jump in any time there is a criticism on their product. Then attack a competitor who is merely defending their own product. I don't see it as good business practice, you can I could care less, but I do not. My original post was meant to alert you to how people like myself can perceive how you act. Obviously, you do not care and that is fine.

Again best of luck to you,

Jim
Jim is online now  
Old 04-19-2010, 10:16 AM #57
Jack Rice
 
 
Jack Rice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sacramento
Jack Rice works for a Paintball manufacturer
Jack Rice posts videos on PbNation
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim View Post
. Right after that you tell him to do this rediculious test with a pole and this and that and how the effects may not be easily recongnized in a game. Yet, when you announced XSV was shooting the guns you mentioned how off the break they had to aim at the opponents feet cause they were shooting over their heads. Would that not qualify as noticable?
Why ridiculous? He said accuracy, not distance. Most find the distance much easier to notice than the accuracy. I have often said that players would shoot over the other teams heads on the break - don't remember saying that with XSV, but it is possible.
Sometimes I tell people to shoot quickly a wall maybe 30 feet away with their gun and then with the ND, usually the size of the pattern will be enough. However when Spatt magazine did their test about 3 years ago he stated that he didn't really notice the difference until 75 feet and not until 125 was he convinced.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim View Post
I understand you're in the business of selling guns and will do whatever you can to gather a piece of a very crowded market.
Really? I have no ethics? Will just say or do anything to sell a gun? And you are still rooting for me? If that were true I wouldn't deserve it!
This kind of statement is probably why I doubted the sincerity in your first post.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim View Post
Then attack a competitor who is merely defending their own product
Again... Really? Merely defending themselves against my unwarranted attacks. Perhaps you could reread the posts as if you owned a Alien instead of their gun and see if you can't see some very aggressive statements.

Then re-shoot an Alien and see if you don't notice the distance. The difference in a game can be very small, half a pod sitting out, do you hit it or miss it at 100+ feet. If one gun is shooting a 18 inch pattern and one is shoot a 12 inch pattern, at 100 plus feet no player will be able to see the extra 3 inches on each direction. The difference between a 18 and a 12 inch pattern will not mean that you will hit the 'half a pod' every time with one and miss every time with the other - just that with one you will hit it more often. If you think testing to see which has the better pattern is ridicules, OK, your choice. To me right reasoning would say that not testing is what is ridicules and the more exacting the test the better.
__________________
Alien
www.alienpb.com
"Just shoot one. You'll see"

Last edited by Jack Rice : 04-19-2010 at 10:27 AM.
Jack Rice is offline  
Old 04-19-2010, 10:46 AM #58
Jim
 
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: New Jersey
Jim is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
Jim has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
I said I wouldn't reply yet you find a way to bring me back lol. Firstly, I appreciate how you take fragments of what I typed and use that to paint yourself as the victim. I say you did a great job launching your company and I respect you for it. Then I said you attempt to sell them as you can. Your response? I claimed you have no ethics. I heard about putting words in someones mouth but in type? My original post said your comments lacked class, if you think what you stated was deserved that's fine, doesn't mean you speak for me. Nobody does that Jack.

Second your suggested "test". I find shooting a pole at various distances while holding the gun is pretty dumb. If I had 50 shots with any gun shooting a stationary object I feel certain I'd be able to hit it equally with any gun (properly set up of course). A gun a vs gun b, bench mounted test where all the variables (such as paint, barrel, and air system) are accounted for would give far more information. Here, you can have your targets and poles or whatever and see how each gun side by side hits them. Maybe the Alien nails everyone, maybe it doesn't. Only way to find out is to have such a test.

Lastly, it is your comments that started this whole thing. When an average player gave his opinion, you felt compelled to reply, and in my mind in a hostile manner, to make your point. I guarantee none of the Vanguard people would have entered this thread if you would not have stated what you did. Instead, we have the current situation. If I owned an Alien gun or not would alter my view. As I said in my previous post everyone has a right to their own opinion, just because you disagree does not mean they are wrong.

Again I have nothing against your product. I'm sure the latest ones, properly tuned, will shoot as well as anything else out there at it's level. If I get a chance to shoot a 2010T believe me I will give it a go. I can assure you though that my interest in owning one now is 0%. I get your point you don't care and that's fine. I was merely making my own point that what you say effects how people view you, and in my mind it is not favorable.
Jim is online now  
Old 04-19-2010, 12:03 PM #59
Jack Rice
 
 
Jack Rice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sacramento
Jack Rice works for a Paintball manufacturer
Jack Rice posts videos on PbNation
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim View Post
I said I wouldn't reply yet you find a way to bring me back lol.
Not my intention but it's fine with me.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim View Post
I said you attempt to sell them as you can.
You said what you said. I quoted it. And how is "as you can" any different? I have sold and backed my product ethically and honestly, and I rightfully resent any implication otherwise
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim View Post
Second your suggested "test". I find shooting a pole at various distances while holding the gun is pretty dumb. If I had 50 shots with any gun shooting a stationary object I feel certain I'd be able to hit it equally with any gun (properly set up of course.
C'mon, it's dumb if players actually shoot the gun... (if there isn't a bench vise to put two guns in side by side) "you feel" "Any gun shoots the same" Yes, it is difficult to see the difference at 100 feet but if you take some time and set reasonble parameters it's there. Once a players sees it I get your previously referred to "Wow" in response.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim View Post
A gun a vs gun b, bench mounted test where all the variables (such as paint, barrel, and air system) are accounted for would give far more information. Here, you can have your targets and poles or whatever and see how each gun side by side hits them. Maybe the Alien nails everyone, maybe it doesn't. Only way to find out is to have such a test.
I did that test with and without the Sweep Bolt. It's on YouTube. Splatt magazine also did it. Any are welcome to repeat the test. I ask that more than one paint is used. If the testers haven't proclaimed the desired results before the test - that might help If any think I'm being overly paranoid here, take one detent out of your gun and shoot it on the field - you'll go back quickly even if you are not double feeding.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim View Post
Lastly, it is your comments that started this whole thing. When an average player gave his opinion
Bashing my quality isn't an opinion - he was just bashing and "average" ? Not so much. Even a quick look at the machining on Alien's shows the care and quality.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim View Post
I guarantee none of the Vanguard people .
Again, guarantees? (Guarantee the Vanguard takes longer to mill) guarantee none of the Vanguard people - if you have no association with them how can you claim to make such guarantees?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim View Post
Again I have nothing against your product. I'm sure the latest ones, properly tuned, will shoot as well as anything else out there at it's level bold an italics mine
Wow, the couched insincerity is stunning!
I'll match my original '05 (now 6 model years old) against anything! The Remains of '06 and '07 against anything - yes properly tuned. They will have more kick than some guns, less than some very, very well selling guns. But their performance is still up to anything at any price - not "at it's level" at the only level that counts and any price!
The '09 and '10 are the best of the best. BEST of the BEST. What I mean by this is you are a better paintballer shooting a new Alien than if you shoot anything else. Don't want to get the "level" thing confusing things.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim View Post
I was merely making my own point that what you say effects how people view you, and in my mind it is not favorable.
Once someone starts bashing it's hard to come out favorably. But I feel to let others make statements that are blatantly false is less favorable. That is, admittedly, opinion and preference.
__________________
Alien
www.alienpb.com
"Just shoot one. You'll see"
Jack Rice is offline  
Old 04-19-2010, 12:55 PM #60
SpecOpsDeath
 
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
i have been in the alien forum for quite a time now, and many people come in and bash Jacks products, sometimes weekly. It is hard to not come off even a little bit hostile, i do believe that since this occurrence happens many, many, many times.

But, i digress, Jack and Paul gun need to chill the hell out. I love alien markers, and i cant wait to own a creed (have shot them and love the feel, but not really feeling the trigger, hoping there will be an aftermarket trigger in the works), and both markers are great. But you both are becoming very agitated at each other, and being slightly personal in this matter which is, in my mind, unacceptable. I may be young (i actually am, 19 to be precise ) but i see these two great companies fighting, and quite frankly, its childish.

I would like to see this test of the two guns mounted up, same barrel, paint, ect. like everyone else. Until then, quit the bickering. I do not need anyone to try and explain to me why they said what they did. I understand both sides. If you are going to argue, at least put in facts (with how long it takes to machine a body, put in actual numbers. right now, you two are just comparing dick sizes and not placing forth any facts). Keep it civilized, and if you cannot do that, do not bother posting.

/rant
SpecOpsDeath is offline  
Old 04-19-2010, 01:15 PM #61
Jack Rice
 
 
Jack Rice's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Sacramento
Jack Rice works for a Paintball manufacturer
Jack Rice posts videos on PbNation
Quote:
Originally Posted by SpecOpsDeath View Post
. right now, you two are just comparing dick sizes and not placing forth any facts).
and neither wants to say any facts for the fear the other will just say - a bigger size
I think many players would be surprised to know how long it takes to mill bodies. For Alien it takes well over 2 hours of actual cutting time just to mill one body. Not the trigger frame, not the Independent Ram, not any internal pieces - just the body.
I don't say this to continue the argument just to show that guns are difficult to make and when you put that kind of time and effort in to get bashed
__________________
Alien
www.alienpb.com
"Just shoot one. You'll see"
Jack Rice is offline  
Old 04-19-2010, 01:48 PM #62
jonotwist
fistfull o'sunshine & joy
 
jonotwist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NE ohio
Annual Supporting Member
jonotwist is playing at Living Legends VII
jonotwist plays in the APPA D4 division
jonotwist supports Empire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Rice View Post
and neither wants to say any facts for the fear the other will just say - a bigger size
I think many players would be surprised to know how long it takes to mill bodies. For Alien it takes well over 2 hours of actual cutting time just to mill one body. Not the trigger frame, not the Independent Ram, not any internal pieces - just the body.
I don't say this to continue the argument just to show that guns are difficult to make and when you put that kind of time and effort in to get bashed
i now know.
I just set up a CnC for a timmy body im cutting. aout 2 and a half hrs when all is said and done. and holy cow I thought these machines worked faster.
and I just did a "2 tubes" cut into my merlin extrusion, let alone how long other bodies will take,
__________________
Speak, if you're worth the listening
vintage old feedback High Tech Shiny Feedback

Breakout Actions Sports Wenies Buy Elsewhere
jonotwist is offline  
Old 04-19-2010, 01:57 PM #63
insixdays777
Fight For Fun.
 
insixdays777's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Iowa
 has been a member for 10 years
insixdays777 owns a Planet Eclipse Lv1
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Rice View Post
and neither wants to say any facts for the fear the other will just say - a bigger size
I think many players would be surprised to know how long it takes to mill bodies. For Alien it takes well over 2 hours of actual cutting time just to mill one body. Not the trigger frame, not the Independent Ram, not any internal pieces - just the body.
I don't say this to continue the argument just to show that guns are difficult to make and when you put that kind of time and effort in to get bashed
I am not surprised by this at all. One honest look at my 09 Alien body and this is obvious. The Alien body has many different cuts, depths, lines and angles. Its just a great looking intricately milled work of art. It is very unique in its milling compared to what is currently being made IMHO.
__________________
Alien Deception
Luxe OLED
Empire Dfender
J4 Torque
insixdays777 is online now  
Closed Thread


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump