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Old 04-07-2010, 04:15 PM #1
fsugonoles63
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2010 Independence T vs Vanguard Creed

I didnt see this one in the sticky. So what are the positives and negatives of both these markers?
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Old 04-07-2010, 07:26 PM #2
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bvandalsen View Post
vanguard sucks! It is a wannabe marker. Junk em!
I highly doubt that considering you havent shot one most likely.

I see that everyone is saying to disregard this kid so I will.

Anybody else have any opinions?
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Old 04-07-2010, 08:08 PM #3
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I'll give you the list of things I like with both.

2010t
-tadao OLED
-low rise feed neck
-4 eyes capability
-easy maintenance
-flexibility when it comes to settings
-soft tip bolt
-smooth operation

Creed
-tons of accessories including 3 barrels
-very small and light(beats almost everything out there)
-oled and rechargeable lithium ion battery
-easy maintenance
-very very smooth operation
sweet gun case if you're into them
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Old 04-07-2010, 09:17 PM #4
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ok, please ready the vs stickey. I've deleted the one-liner posts. if the thread seriously goes south i'll lock it.
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Old 04-07-2010, 09:47 PM #5
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I've never owned either but I've shot both several times and honestely I consider them fairly equal overall. I would take either one of these markers over an ego (or any other stack tube poppit) any day. They are both very smooth, very reliable, and very light.

However, each marker has a shot feel that's unique to that particular marker. One of the big reasons I would take the alien over the creed is because of the sweep. The trajectory is just so damn flat and nice on the alien. Other then that I think how they shoot comes down to preference. Both are pretty incredible markers and you can't go wrong with either.

I'm probably leaning a little more towards alien though because their customer service (from what I've heard) is absolutely the best.
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Old 04-08-2010, 01:54 PM #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VrelicV View Post
I've never owned either but I've shot both several times and honestely I consider them fairly equal overall. I would take either one of these markers over an ego (or any other stack tube poppit) any day. They are both very smooth, very reliable, and very light.

However, each marker has a shot feel that's unique to that particular marker. One of the big reasons I would take the alien over the creed is because of the sweep. The trajectory is just so damn flat and nice on the alien. Other then that I think how they shoot comes down to preference. Both are pretty incredible markers and you can't go wrong with either.

I'm probably leaning a little more towards alien though because their customer service (from what I've heard) is absolutely the best.
.......does this honestly need to be discussed again? The sweep bolt shoots no differently than any other bolt, in any other marker..

I also doubt you have dealt with vanguards CS. Im kinda being a hypocrite because I've never actually dealt with alien myself, but I have shot their marker. I just dont see how CS can get any better than Vanguard's. They updated their marker, so they offered a trade in program. How many other companies do that. A brand new marker, traded straight for an old one? Amazing. I've dealt with Martin quite a few times, and hes shipped parts from england (or wherever they are based) for free. No shipping charges, no charges for the actual part...NOTHING. Alien would have some GREAT customer service to match them.

Both guns will shoot amazing, its preference. Just because you are getting so many extras with the creed, I would choose it over the alien.
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Old 04-12-2010, 09:17 AM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slayer0704 View Post
.......does this honestly need to be discussed again? The sweep bolt shoots no differently than any other bolt, in any other marker..

I also doubt you have dealt with vanguards CS. Im kinda being a hypocrite because I've never actually dealt with alien myself, but I have shot their marker. .
Really, because most that have shoot more than a few shots say there is a noticable improvement. That's why we let players try them for a weekend, try a few types of paint, get to know how Alien's shoot.
A few shoots with semi decent paint doesn't show much. A whole weekend does.
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Last edited by rluna : 04-12-2010 at 10:56 AM. Reason: unnecessary text edited out
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Old 04-12-2010, 03:25 PM #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slayer0704 View Post
.......does this honestly need to be discussed again? The sweep bolt shoots no differently than any other bolt, in any other marker..

I also doubt you have dealt with vanguards CS. Im kinda being a hypocrite because I've never actually dealt with alien myself, but I have shot their marker. I just dont see how CS can get any better than Vanguard's. They updated their marker, so they offered a trade in program. How many other companies do that. A brand new marker, traded straight for an old one? Amazing. I've dealt with Martin quite a few times, and hes shipped parts from england (or wherever they are based) for free. No shipping charges, no charges for the actual part...NOTHING. Alien would have some GREAT customer service to match them.

Both guns will shoot amazing, its preference. Just because you are getting so many extras with the creed, I would choose it over the alien.
Have you actually shot an alien? I too was in complete doubt about it until I shot one. It's not like shooting an apex or anything but the trajectory is noticeably flatter, without a doubt. For me that IS an advantage whether you want to believe it or not. I don't get why people still have doubts about this, but I don't really want to get into it so I'll let it be.

As far as customer service goes I have in fact dealt with Vanguard. I had one of the original creeds when they were first coming over to america, and no I don't think their service is bad to any extent. I only stated that I have heard absolutely nothing but good things about the customer service Alien offers.

I have heard from several people that Vanguard has really stepped up their game with both their markers and their service but imo, like I stated before, Alien has my trust and support over the two companies. However, from what you said both companies seem to have top notch customer service and I can't see cs being an issue with either company. So what it really comes down to is the marker itself, how it fires, how you play, and what you expect from your marker.
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Old 04-12-2010, 07:25 PM #9
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ok lets not go into this "sweep bolt" thing again. i believe there is a difference but this is not the time nor the thread to discuss it.

So...back on topic...


Quote:
Originally Posted by MstrKey View Post
I'll give you the list of things I like with both.

2010t
-tadao OLED
-low rise feed neck
-4 eyes capability
-easy maintenance
-flexibility when it comes to settings
-soft tip bolt
-smooth operation

Creed
-tons of accessories including 3 barrels
-very small and light(beats almost everything out there)
-oled and rechargeable lithium ion battery
-easy maintenance
-very very smooth operation
sweet gun case if you're into them
I agree with everything right here. The creed is a very, very nice marker. very solid yet light, smooth shot and just a great freaking marker, cant say more about it. only thing i do not like is the trigger, just couldnt get used to it. but thats just preference.

with the alien, i couldnt ask any more of it. I do own and shoot an 08 indy, this past weekend I was at the NCPA nationals in Florida and shot both the Indy and my 09 Impulse. both shot great. Will NOT go into the trajectory between the two tho.

I honestly say that you need to get your hands on the guns. thats the only way you can figure this one out. They both shoot extremely well and are very efficient. just great markers. its all preference with these two.
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Old 04-12-2010, 08:20 PM #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by slayer0704 View Post
.......does this honestly need to be discussed again? The sweep bolt shoots no differently than any other bolt, in any other marker..

I also doubt you have dealt with vanguards CS. Im kinda being a hypocrite because I've never actually dealt with alien myself, but I have shot their marker. I just dont see how CS can get any better than Vanguard's. They updated their marker, so they offered a trade in program. How many other companies do that. A brand new marker, traded straight for an old one? Amazing. I've dealt with Martin quite a few times, and hes shipped parts from england (or wherever they are based) for free. No shipping charges, no charges for the actual part...NOTHING. Alien would have some GREAT customer service to match them.

Both guns will shoot amazing, its preference. Just because you are getting so many extras with the creed, I would choose it over the alien.
Actually, when Alien released the '08 Indy, Jack WAS taking two and three year old guns in the '05 and '06 Interceptors and giving you a $300 credit towards a BRAND NEW gun in the '08's. So there's another manufacturer doing that.
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Old 04-13-2010, 11:42 AM #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpecOpsDeath View Post
ok lets not go into this "sweep bolt" thing again. i believe there is a difference but
But let's not let statements like The sweep bolt shoots no differently than any other bolt, in any other marker.. go unchallenged. Some who own the guns make more of a "claim" than others, however that "all bolts in all markers shoot no differently" is just dumb, and rude. To point out that someone is making dumb and rude staement is not to be rude yourself, rather it is a call for courtesy and valid discussion.

Actually what happened is to say that becasue "booth guns shoot the same" The sweep bolt shoots no differently than any other bolt, in any other marker.. that it is solely a matter of preference. But they don't shoot the same, they don't operate the same. Alien has the Independent Ram which makes it eser to service and makes it very reliable. Both guns will shoot amazing, its preference. Just because you are getting so many extras with the creed, I would choose it over the alien. Don't buy the best gun! Buy the extras - absolutely wrong way to think about things. AND that type of thing doesn't get a pass 'unless' the premise of "all guns shoot the same is left unchallanged"

It's kind of how we got Bush for President - anybody can do it. Let's pick the guy we would like to have a beer with, an average guy. With a war in Iraq costing 10 Billion a month, a Real Estate market with unheard of forclosure rates and a Stock market that fell from over 13,000 to the low 7,000's (hey, back to 11,000) I think we all know now that just anybody can't do it - not well - it's not just a matter of preference.
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Old 04-13-2010, 12:02 PM #12
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i normally would have rebutted that comment about the sweep bolt Jack, but i just really didnt want to make this another thread about the sweep bolt and some random nub trying to say it doesnt work.

Slayer, go and find the multiple threads about the sweep and try your luck there. you wont succeed in the least bit, but at least keep it away from the other threads like this
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Old 04-13-2010, 12:22 PM #13
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Quote:
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i normally would have rebutted that comment about the sweep bolt
yea, sorry, I didn't mean to seem to be criticizing you personally.
I have been told by many people to let it go and sell the other more accepted features of the gun, which is fine too, but to admit that the sweep is the same is to admit to something I know isn't true.
I try not to challenge everyone, every time it's said, but I felt the conclusions were wrong so ...
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Old 04-13-2010, 03:44 PM #14
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i completely understand, just trying to make sure that every thread made doesnt turn into a discussion about the sweep bolt, hence is why i asked for him to go to another thread that is all about the sweep bolt

and i know you werent criticizing me personally, i have never taken offense or anything personally you have said over the forums to me
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Old 04-14-2010, 12:57 PM #15
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I haven't owned an Alien in quite a few years, so my opinion of them are out of date, but when I did own one compared to my Creed I currently have:

The level of quality was NOWHERE near on par with the Creed.
They were quiter than the Creed (anything but an Ego is quieter than a Creed though)
They shot NOWHERE near as smooth as the Creed
They broke paint far more often than the Creed
I personally have never found the sweep bolt to do anything. I owned 2 older Aliens, and was highly unimpressed with either one. I have heard great things about the newer Aliens, but can't seem to find anyone selling one that they're not either ugly as sin or overpriced from what it's worth, and the TIBYBI, I own too many markers to PAY to rent one. So unless someone owns a recent Alien that plays in Taneytown, MD is willing to let me borrow it for a day, I probably never will know either.
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Old 04-14-2010, 01:22 PM #16
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I haven't owned an Alien in quite a few years, so my opinion of them are out of date, but when I did own one compared to my Creed I currently have:

The level of quality was NOWHERE near on par with the Creed.
They were quiter than the Creed (anything but an Ego is quieter than a Creed though)
They shot NOWHERE near as smooth as the Creed
They broke paint far more often than the Creed
I personally have never found the sweep bolt to do anything. I owned 2 older Aliens, and was highly unimpressed with either one. I have heard great things about the newer Aliens, but can't seem to find anyone selling one that they're not either ugly as sin or overpriced from what it's worth, and the TIBYBI, I own too many markers to PAY to rent one. So unless someone owns a recent Alien that plays in Taneytown, MD is willing to let me borrow it for a day, I probably never will know either.
i might be able to let you use mine for a day or two, i live in jersey (college in CT). your about three hours away from me, and i have an 08 indy (see sig). i do agree that the older aliens werent the best, but the indys now are much much better. the 09-10 indys shoot waaaaay better then 08's (apparently). i just need to tune mine is all...getting crap efficiency and its loud (lpr is all kinds of ****ed up)
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Old 04-14-2010, 02:55 PM #17
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I agree with jack 100%. I owned a 09 Alien and the sweep bolt is an awesome invention and works! It outshot my ego's distance wise for sure. Also he view on president Bush I could not agree more. Worthless to say the least and boy could i go on and on.
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Old 04-14-2010, 03:02 PM #18
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The level of quality was NOWHERE near on par with the Creed
Your right! Your cheap Taiwanese gun isn't' nearly as good as our Made in America gun - Ours is quality milled from a solid piece of 6061 billet Aluminum - that looks extruded with a quick rounded finish - no cut lines at all.
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They shot NOWHERE near as smooth as the Creed
The ND has an LPR pressure of between 50 and 55 - the smoothest spool may be just a little smoother but that is about it
Quote:
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They broke paint far more often than the Creed. ( ) I personally have never found the sweep bolt to do anything...ugly as sin or overpriced from what it's worth
Just making stuff up here, nothing to back it up... Ugly, most tell me they really like the look of the ND, as far as what it's worth, it's cheaper than most guns that perform 'almost' as well . The Creed is $25 more than a new ND, and a extruded Asian gun "should" cost a lot less than a machined American gun, so they are the one that is overpriced. And for a little more you get a Tadao board. Either way you get an SMC solenoid, a Critical trigger and quality throughout.
Remember the NME - came with big talk lot lot of flash (rep in the Creed booth last year told me the gun got 2,400 shots) then gone. Infinity Legend -was the fastest gun avaliable. Now Creed - they are??? the low pressure gun, is that about it, low pressure, anything else? We'll see
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Old 04-14-2010, 03:04 PM #19
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I agree with jack 100%. I owned a 09 Alien and the sweep bolt is an awesome invention and works! It outshot my ego's distance wise for sure.
Well you called me a couple of weeks ago to get a 2010 T and I didn't hear back - still waitng for your call
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Old 04-14-2010, 03:05 PM #20
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held both of them at hb. Vanguard has some nice stuff going for them but so does the alien.

The vanguard had a fatter and boxier feeling grip frame but I like the thicker frames, then the real thin frame on the new aliens. But I like the rounded critical trigger much much more then the vanguard trigger, it is also kind of blocky in comparison to the critical trigger.

I havent shot the vanguard or an alien after 08 but feel wise they are both light and comfortable. Lots of features on both, one is an american company, one is lucky re-emerging, out of europe, with what looks like a much better quality product then they originally used to sell.

both seem nice, try and feel them for yourself, they both make a competetive product
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Old 04-14-2010, 03:34 PM #21
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held both of them at hb...
Nice job... first that I've heard that they are Lucky reemerging
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