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Old 07-22-2010, 08:58 AM #127
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Sure I do.
1-I'm looking for a nice knife set. Where online can you recommend to read about the different companies/sets? I have a bunch of Calaphon(sp?) and are ok but want to upgrade soon. Money is the biggest obstacle
What sort of cutting do you do mostly?

Also, get rid of the idea that you need a set. You probably only really need 2 or 3 knives. Will make money less of an issue.
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Old 07-22-2010, 08:59 AM #128
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I get that. I want bare iron. It has a weird texture I dont really like. Also, on another note with all this knife talk, check out my new project. If all goes well, may start making my own kitchen knives. Who knows, it will probably crash and burn.


on a similar note:

this isn't supposed to be a knife for use in the kitchen, is it?
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Old 07-22-2010, 08:31 PM #129
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What sort of cutting do you do mostly?

Also, get rid of the idea that you need a set. You probably only really need 2 or 3 knives. Will make money less of an issue.
-want something i can easily debone chicken or clean/filet fish
-something to cut up veggies
-cut meat with like prep ribs or filet a chicken breast and things along that line.
-o i also cut/dice a lot of meats to cook fast ala wok style.

i usually cook for a minimum of 4 but usually 8 around here so im using the knives alot.
not even sure of the names of what i'm looking for or where which is why i was asking.
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Old 07-22-2010, 08:53 PM #130
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You should get a boning knife, fillet knife, chefs knife, paring knife.

Henkels are good knifes and they are not to expensive. Globals are also not bad and are reasonably priced. Shuns are excellent knifes but can get a pit pricey. I have 2 shuns of my own and I love them.
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Old 07-22-2010, 09:08 PM #131
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Assuming you want western style knives (as opposed to Japanese), I would guess you could get by with a chef's knife, a smaller utility knife (for breaking down a whole chicken), and a fillet knife (if you actually fillet fish often...but if you do that, I'm guessing you already have a fillet knife you like).

A western style boning knife could probably replace the utility knife, but I think they are more for removing meat from bone, as opposed to say, breaking down a whole chicken. For that, I believe something with less flex than a traditional boning knife is better (for getting in and separating joints/whatever). Just depends on what you'll be doing.

If you want a small paring knife, I would suggest just picking up a few $4 forschners.

If you feel it's necessary, you could add a large serrated knife for crusty bread/slicing large pieces of meat.

Basically, I would start would a chef's knife (make sure it's not too small, particularly since you cook for 8 on a regular basis), and fill in the gaps from there.

And learn to keep your **** sharp. This will mean a bit of investment beyond the knives themselves, but it is very worth it. Buying new knives is pointless if you don't keep them sharp.


And take all this advice as seriously as you feel fit. I'm no expert, by any means.


Blade material is also worth considering, but unless you are pretty serious about paying close attention to care and maintenance, I'd just go with something stainless.
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Old 07-24-2010, 01:22 AM #132
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on a similar note:

this isn't supposed to be a knife for use in the kitchen, is it?
No. Thats on the to do list. Its a warm up. Going well. I have two in the process of being made as it were.
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Old 07-24-2010, 02:59 AM #133
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No. Thats on the to do list. Its a warm up. Going well. I have two in the process of being made as it were.
I assumed it wasn't...just making sure, ha.
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Old 07-26-2010, 12:42 AM #134
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http://www.cutleryandmore.com/victor...s-knife-p13542

serrated knives will make some jobs so easy that you'll scratch your head for a long time wondering why you hadn't gotten one earlier. This one is light too, and in an easy to use chef's knife patteren.

http://www.knivesplus.com/QN-726-Old-Hickory.HTML
Can't beat the price, and it's carbon steel, takes a edge quicker than anything else.

http://www.amazon.com/Piece-Cutlery-.../dp/B000HOF0QS

I just include the largest and the smallest in my tool box, large one is on the line, small one in my bag for when I need it.

All in all, I'd rather dexter russel boning knife, chef knife, but for the price this is the easiest way it worked for me. Oh, the santokus come with super awesome hard palstic durable sheaths. Makes a lot of things easier, if they made more knives with sheaths like that you can bet i'd spend the extra dollars for em. (somewhere I saw plastic covers, but I'm not sure how well they work.)


Knife is no good without an edge, get a stone.

I have this one, it's not the best but it works.

http://www.cutleryandmore.com/norton...-system-p14659


Get a traditional steel too, don't overuse it, get confident honing the edge slowly.
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Old 07-26-2010, 01:33 AM #135
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Hell no to a serrated chef's knife. Unless, I suppose, you use that santoku for 90%+ of the jobs for which one would normally use a chef's knife.

Speaking of the santokus, I don't really get the point of having what is supposed to be a nimble vegetable knife with a big western-style bolster like those have. Nor do I see the point in having 3 of the same knife in slightly different sizes. Why not get one better knife for the price of those three?

Also, any $7 knife is not going to be made of great steel, high-carbon or otherwise.

Don't mean to hate, just offering my opinion.
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Old 07-26-2010, 09:22 AM #136
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I have to agree with Rogue on that one.

These are some of the knives I have, they are very pricey, but they are some of the best out there.
http://www.kershawknives.com/product...395&brand=shun

This is the boning knife I use. I can promise you it is better then the $7 knife.
http://www.kershawknives.com/product...258&brand=shun
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Old 07-27-2010, 12:01 AM #137
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Not sure I would say they are "some of the best out there," but shuns are plenty nice, yeah. Generally considered overpriced, I think, but still decent knives.

Do you actually use that 7" gyuto? I think I remember reading you saying that you are in culinary school right? Seems small.

I actually ordered a new knife today and just got an e-mail saying it has shipped from japan. I'll post pictures when I get it.
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Old 07-27-2010, 12:51 AM #138
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Hell no to a serrated chef's knife. Unless, I suppose, you use that santoku for 90%+ of the jobs for which one would normally use a chef's knife.

Speaking of the santokus, I don't really get the point of having what is supposed to be a nimble vegetable knife with a big western-style bolster like those have. Nor do I see the point in having 3 of the same knife in slightly different sizes. Why not get one better knife for the price of those three?

Also, any $7 knife is not going to be made of great steel, high-carbon or otherwise.

Don't mean to hate, just offering my opinion.


Ya the santoku (9.5 in one) is my "chef" knife, it works as well, little better at some things, little worse at others. The small one has specific uses, cleaning trout for example, I don't use it much, but it's nice to have near by. This set was gifted to me, so couldn't beat the price.

Don't let the price fool you on the old hickory knife. I know it's not as pretty as a lot of other cutlery manufacturers style, but nobody really makes carbon steel knives anymore... Sabatier 4 star, maybe one offering from messermiester, and wildfire cutlery but those prices are much higher, maybe if I went to replace that 9.5 santoku that would be were I look, but for the moment it will suffice. If you haven't used carbon steel before, it's worth looking into. Might I suggest getting an old hickory boning knife? It will dull at the slightest abuse, but 4 strokes on a steel and it will be as sharp as it was when it came off of the stone.

Hell no to a serrated chef's knife? really it's just a bread knife that's easier to use, Slice tomatoes alot? cut sandwiches in half for plating? those jobs are made idiot proof with a serrated edge. Personally I reach for it when I plate pheasant. Breast of pheasant wrapped in bacon seared then roasted, an edged knife will cut it, but it's much much more difficult to make it look pretty than if a serrated knife is used.


"Also, any $7 knife is not going to be made of great steel, high-carbon or otherwise."

I'm not sure if I should laugh or cry at that, but instead I guess I'll just keep a little more money in the bank.


Not my intention to start a pissing contest over steel, perhaps a question could divert that.


Ciabatta (sp?) bread.

Purchased it often comes in like 4"x4" square individual loaves for like sandwiches, burgers, whatever. I believe that ciabatta is translated (roughly....) as slipper loaf, implying that the loaf is supposed to resemble an old worn out house slipper in shape. I've prepared this from a recipe in my textbook, and what came out of the oven was very different from what woul be purchased at say the groccery store. what came out was very soft, somewhat strong crust, and the crumb kind of formed in straitions (strands of gluten that could be seen i guess). When I see ciabatta that is purchased baked, it's very hard crusted, moderatley chewy, and the crumb is very evenly spaced air bubbles within what seems to be a web of gluten (not really a set patteren, just evenly dispersed).

Anyone have a dough recipe that is similar to ciabatta that you see at the grocery store?
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Old 07-27-2010, 01:42 AM #139
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Don't let the price fool you on the old hickory knife. I know it's not as pretty as a lot of other cutlery manufacturers style, but nobody really makes carbon steel knives anymore... Sabatier 4 star, maybe one offering from messermiester, and wildfire cutlery but those prices are much higher, maybe if I went to replace that 9.5 santoku that would be were I look, but for the moment it will suffice. If you haven't used carbon steel before, it's worth looking into. Might I suggest getting an old hickory boning knife? It will dull at the slightest abuse, but 4 strokes on a steel and it will be as sharp as it was when it came off of the stone.

Hell no to a serrated chef's knife? really it's just a bread knife that's easier to use, Slice tomatoes alot? cut sandwiches in half for plating? those jobs are made idiot proof with a serrated edge. Personally I reach for it when I plate pheasant. Breast of pheasant wrapped in bacon seared then roasted, an edged knife will cut it, but it's much much more difficult to make it look pretty than if a serrated knife is used.


"Also, any $7 knife is not going to be made of great steel, high-carbon or otherwise."

I'm not sure if I should laugh or cry at that, but instead I guess I'll just keep a little more money in the bank.
You say "carbon steel," but all steel has carbon in it. I assume what you are talking about is just high-carbon steel (easier to sharpen, gains a patina, rusts quickly if not kept dry, often a higher hardness rating for the price, etc...). Correct me if I'm wrong. If I'm not wrong, though, you are quite incorrect about not many people making them anymore.

If you're going to have a serrated knife to use as a bread knife, why not just make it a real bread knife? Certain good bread knives can also be used as slicers (for meats with a "crust" and soft interior, such as your bacon-wrapped pheasant) much more efficiently, as they are usually significantly less wide (from heel to blade, not blade thickness) than a chef's knife.

And if you have trouble cutting tomatoes with a non-serrated chefs knife, your knife is not sharp enough.
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Old 07-28-2010, 11:33 PM #140
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You say "carbon steel," but all steel has carbon in it. I assume what you are talking about is just high-carbon steel (easier to sharpen, gains a patina, rusts quickly if not kept dry, often a higher hardness rating for the price, etc...). Correct me if I'm wrong. If I'm not wrong, though, you are quite incorrect about not many people making them anymore.

If you're going to have a serrated knife to use as a bread knife, why not just make it a real bread knife? Certain good bread knives can also be used as slicers (for meats with a "crust" and soft interior, such as your bacon-wrapped pheasant) much more efficiently, as they are usually significantly less wide (from heel to blade, not blade thickness) than a chef's knife.

And if you have trouble cutting tomatoes with a non-serrated chefs knife, your knife is not sharp enough.
Carbon steel, tool steel, yes well described above. I beleive specifically 1095 carbon steel is used, and it takes an edge well. I am incorrect about carbon steel cutlery being not widely available? Please enlighten me, where are you finding new knives that rust for sell? Not high carbon stainless, but knives that rust, please share. I've seen a couple, sabatier 4 star with the elephant on it, I think I remember a little selection from messermiester, and dude doing his own thing/customs at wildfire cutlery. just a few selections. I feel strongly that shun knives cost so much because they look cool, would that shun boning knife do some jobs better than the old hickory? ya, it's got an extra curve in the edge near the handle, it's got a point where the edge ends near the handle, both of these things will make it better at some jobs, but come on man admit it, it's not 18 times better at anything compared to the old hickory knife. It costs near 18 times more though. I feel that's only because it looks cool. You want to spend money like that because it looks cool?

Serrated chef vs. traditional bread knife? Serrated chef has more versaility. This knife is good for a lot more than just slicing bread and roasts, the edges shape (being curved instead of straight) is a lot quicker on near every cut. You can really feel the edge ride the board on the last stroke of the cut. Really, nearly anything that could be done with an edged chef knife is do-able with this knife, but it's the little things that make it handy. Cutting a sandwich in half without mangling it in the least, peeling larger fruits such as watermelon, when customers request that an order be split between two (fairly common at the restaurant I work at) having a serrated edge around is great when it comes time to split something fragile like seared seabass.


Thickness, "heel to blade" by that do you mean as I would call it frome spine to edge? this stamped serrated chef's knife is pretty thin in thickness (thickness of the steel used) I like that in contrast to my heavy thick santoku.

Tomatoes, I agree that a properly sharpened knife will sail through tomatoes, a sharp knife will shave hair off your arm without much trouble too.



You are douche bag, but you still need to show me where you're finding carbon steel cutlery for sale, as I wouldn't mind rounding out my knife roll.
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Old 07-29-2010, 12:24 AM #141
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all these guys are giving you great advice. when i was looking for new knives i went to someplace that carried a variety of different styles of handels. that i think is one of the most important things in a knife. if the handel doesn't fit your hand/or isn't comfortable you won't like them. for me the globels were one of those knives, i totally liked the construcion and the price, however the handle wasn't for me. i just bought my brother a chefs, utility, paring combo, boning, and santoku. those are the knives that he wanted/needed
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Old 07-29-2010, 12:27 AM #142
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Carbon steel, tool steel, yes well described above. I beleive specifically 1095 carbon steel is used, and it takes an edge well. I am incorrect about carbon steel cutlery being not widely available? Please enlighten me, where are you finding new knives that rust for sell? Not high carbon stainless, but knives that rust, please share. I've seen a couple, sabatier 4 star with the elephant on it, I think I remember a little selection from messermiester, and dude doing his own thing/customs at wildfire cutlery. just a few selections. I feel strongly that shun knives cost so much because they look cool, would that shun boning knife do some jobs better than the old hickory? ya, it's got an extra curve in the edge near the handle, it's got a point where the edge ends near the handle, both of these things will make it better at some jobs, but come on man admit it, it's not 18 times better at anything compared to the old hickory knife. It costs near 18 times more though. I feel that's only because it looks cool. You want to spend money like that because it looks cool?

Serrated chef vs. traditional bread knife? Serrated chef has more versaility. This knife is good for a lot more than just slicing bread and roasts, the edges shape (being curved instead of straight) is a lot quicker on near every cut. You can really feel the edge ride the board on the last stroke of the cut. Really, nearly anything that could be done with an edged chef knife is do-able with this knife, but it's the little things that make it handy. Cutting a sandwich in half without mangling it in the least, peeling larger fruits such as watermelon, when customers request that an order be split between two (fairly common at the restaurant I work at) having a serrated edge around is great when it comes time to split something fragile like seared seabass.


Thickness, "heel to blade" by that do you mean as I would call it frome spine to edge? this stamped serrated chef's knife is pretty thin in thickness (thickness of the steel used) I like that in contrast to my heavy thick santoku.

Tomatoes, I agree that a properly sharpened knife will sail through tomatoes, a sharp knife will shave hair off your arm without much trouble too.



You are douche bag, but you still need to show me where you're finding carbon steel cutlery for sale, as I wouldn't mind rounding out my knife roll.
How am I being a douche bag at all? Because I'm correcting you? Sorry.



That is a picture of the beginning of a patina on my carbon steel petty. Stainless steel does not patina. You can see the difference between the metal on the bevel of the edge and the rest of the knife (though it's not freshly sharpened, so the bevel has some discoloration from acidic foods, as well). The point is, the metal is reactive, as are all non-stainless carbon steel blades. MANY brands (and particularly Japanese brands) still produce kitchen knives with carbon blades that will rust if not carefully maintained.

Shun knives are expensive because of a) the brand and b) the fact that they are good knives. The looks definitely go into the brand. Though I'm pretty sure a lot of people throw blade geometry in there along with price criticism.

It's silly to say you can do anything with a serrated chefs knife that you can do with a regular one that's not serrated. Like saying you can do anything with a rock that you could do with a hammer. Sure you "can" but it's not the right thing for the job. I bet it doesn't chop an onion very well, for example. Or push cut anything.

Like I said originally, if you're just using it as a bread knife/slicer (which it sounds like you are), then whatever. I'd just take something that's more suited for those things. And my bread knife has a slightly curved blade. http://www.amazon.com/MAC-Carving-Br.../dp/B000MYZSYM It's great.

And yeah, I meant spine to edge, not heel to blade (which obviously makes no sense). Mistyped, sorry.

It's not necessarily true that all "sharp" knives would shave hair easily. Depends a lot on the nature of the edge (toothy vs. polished). Sharp is kind of a subjective word. That being said, a toothy edge is maybe better for slicing tomato.
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Old 07-29-2010, 01:20 PM #143
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new knife, as promised:
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Old 07-29-2010, 04:37 PM #144
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Jealous

Is that a 10 inch?
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Old 07-29-2010, 11:49 PM #145
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Jealous

Is that a 10 inch?
it's 240mm, so like 9.5 inches. That's from the choil to the tip though, I believe, so the actual cutting edge is a bit shorter.
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Old 07-30-2010, 11:43 PM #146
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Really, nearly anything that could be done with an edged chef knife is do-able with this knife, but it's the little things that make it handy.
So you can chiffonade with your serrated chefs knife? Brunoise vegetables? Mince garlic? Really, there's no winning this argument. Stop trying to convince people otherwise.
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Old 08-11-2010, 06:09 PM #147
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Externship is over. Back in MI now. That is all.
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