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Old 03-29-2010, 11:25 PM #1
Tuff
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So...who do you democrats here consider your "champion"...

as far as recent Presidents and Congressman go?

Conservatives cite Roosevelt (the good one) Reagen, Barry Goldwater, etc.

Who would the democrats here cite as their best of the entire 1900's? I have my own opinion, probably differs from who people here will pick, but I am genuinely curious to hear.
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Old 03-29-2010, 11:30 PM #2
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Truman was, by far, the best Democratic President in the 20th century.

Then again, I'm not a Democrat.
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Old 03-29-2010, 11:30 PM #3
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as far as recent Presidents and Congressman go?

Conservatives cite Roosevelt (the good one) Reagen, Barry Goldwater, etc.

Who would the democrats here cite as their best of the entire 1900's? I have my own opinion, probably differs from who people here will pick, but I am genuinely curious to hear.
Reagan was hardly a "conservative" fiscally...
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Old 03-29-2010, 11:30 PM #4
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No good presidents since Jackson.
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Old 03-29-2010, 11:30 PM #5
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A good democratic president? lol
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Old 03-29-2010, 11:34 PM #6
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A good democratic president? lol
Clinton was more fiscally conservative than Reagan, which is what is really funny...
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Old 03-29-2010, 11:35 PM #7
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Clinton was more fiscally conservative than Reagan, which is what is really funny...
A good republican president? lol
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Old 03-30-2010, 12:10 AM #8
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ditto on no good ones.
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Old 03-30-2010, 12:12 AM #9
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Old 03-30-2010, 12:15 AM #10
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Not trying to troll, but who are the modern day liberal intellectuals? If someone says Michael Moore, I'm going to puke.
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Old 03-30-2010, 12:19 AM #11
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Not trying to troll, but who are the modern day liberal intellectuals? If someone says Michael Moore, I'm going to puke.
Ted Rall.
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Old 03-30-2010, 12:49 AM #12
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Not trying to troll, but who are the modern day liberal intellectuals? If someone says Michael Moore, I'm going to puke.
Some names to check out would be ... Thom Hartmann, Paul Krugman, Eric Alterman, Michael Parenti, George Lakoff, Arianna Huffington, Noam Chomsky, Markos Moulitsas, David Sirota, Ed Schultz, Al Gore, Greg Palast, Ron Reagan, Howard Dean ... bah
that list is woefully incomplete.
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Old 03-30-2010, 12:50 AM #13
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Some names to check out would be ... Thom Hartmann, Paul Krugman, Eric Alterman, Michael Parenti, George Lakoff, Arianna Huffington, Noam Chomsky, Markos Moulitsas, David Sirota, Ed Schultz, Al Gore, Greg Palast, Ron Reagan, Howard Dean ... bah
that list is woefully incomplete.
haha...
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Old 03-30-2010, 12:53 AM #14
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Wasn't howard dean the BEEEEYAAHHH guy?
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Old 03-30-2010, 12:54 AM #15
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Wasn't howard dean the BEEEEYAAHHH guy?
We're gonna take it to the white house! BEEEYAAAHHHH
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Old 03-30-2010, 12:54 AM #16
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haha...
Serious question: where do you find fault with Howard Dean?
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Old 03-30-2010, 10:19 AM #17
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I'm not a democrat and your question is kind of vague and childish. But i'll give my opinion on who was probably the most important player in recent healthcare reform. Nancy Pelosi, the reason of this is when Barack Obama began to waver on healthcare reform after the Massachusetts election, Nancy Pelosi stood fast almost like Margaret Thatcher telling her constituency "do not go wobbly or waver".
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Old 03-30-2010, 02:02 PM #18
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Clinton was more fiscally conservative than Reagan, which is what is really funny...
Not really funny at all. Reagan spent like crazy because he knew how to kill the Soviet Union; outspend them on weapons. And it worked.
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Old 03-30-2010, 02:04 PM #19
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Not really funny at all. Reagan spent like crazy because he knew how to kill the Soviet Union; outspend them on weapons. And it worked.
riighhhttt, the huge tax cuts went towards outspending the soviets on weapons....

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...20174382/pg_4/

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Contrary to a widely held impression, however, Star Wars did not force the Soviet Union into major new expenditures. The decision was made in Moscow to meet any SDI programs if and as a concrete military threat became real, and then through appropriate, less costly, offsetting asymmetric countermeasures. Studies were undertaken, but not new military programs. As a concrete military-technological challenge, SDI never was sufficiently defined to permit creating and procuring countermeasures.

SDI did not help the cause of arms control. It made it harder for Gorbachev to persuade the Soviet military leaders to make deep reductions in strategic arms, inasmuch as some counter-measures might depend upon strategic missiles. Nonetheless, he persisted. As soon as his internal political position permitted, Gorbachev went ahead with substantial reductions in military spending despite a continuing, if attenuated, U.S. Star Wars program.

There was a broader negative aspect to the impact of the Reagan military buildup and confrontational line in 1981-83. The open enmity of Reagan and his first-term administration reinforced the Marxist-Leninist stereotype of hostile imperialist designs, making it more difficult for Soviet leaders to see the falsity of their ideological conceptions of the world.

Moreover, the Reagan administration also secretly engaged in acts of military intimidation. Only recently has it begun to become known that in addition to aggressive, stepped-up naval and air reconnaissance along Soviet borders, naval exercises included secret approaches to Soviet waters and flights of bombers toward Soviet territory, turning away only at the last moment. These provocative actions were most intensive in 1981-83 but continued in some respects at least into 1986. The most dangerous moment occurred in November 1983, when Andropov and his intelligence chiefs even believed the United States might start a nuclear war, incredible as that seems.

One unexpected consequence of the Reagan military buildup was, paradoxically, to persuade some Soviet leaders that no country, not even the wealthy United States, could afford to spend endlessly on a military buildup that did not really yield any military or political dividends or options. Perhaps the Soviet Union could not match the U.S. military and military-technological buildup, but the most important thing they learned was that it didn't need to.

Gorbachev set out in 1985-86 to end the arms race and the Cold War. His aims, and even the path to achieve them, although daunting, were clearer to him than the way to realize his aims in internal perestroika. He could not, of course, do everything that he wanted to at once, but he set out to do it. His opening salvo was the proposal in January 1986 to eliminate nuclear weapons in a decade. After the summits at Geneva, Switzerland, in 1985 and Reykjavik, Iceland, in 1986, Gorbachev believed there was a real possibility to work with Reagan, but he also saw that the Soviet Union would have to assume the main burden of turning down the arms race. Equal security and equal reductions would have to give way to more Soviet initiative and to greater Soviet concessions, not concessions compelled by Western political pressure or the economic pressure of the arms race, but concessions to reality. The Intermediate-range Nuclear Forces Treaty was concluded in 1987, and both a first Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty and a Treaty on Conventional Forces in Europe were signed by 1990 after major Soviet concessions.
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Old 03-30-2010, 02:34 PM #20
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riighhhttt, the huge tax cuts went towards outspending the soviets on weapons....

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...20174382/pg_4/
and then we can argue til the cows come home that spending so much on defense led directly to the fall of the soviet union as they tried and failed to keep pace.
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Old 03-30-2010, 02:38 PM #21
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riighhhttt, the huge tax cuts went towards outspending the soviets on weapons....

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/m...20174382/pg_4/
Who said anything about SDI? SDI was one of the defense programs under the auspices of the Reagan administration. There is no denying that Reagan repudiated detente and drastically ramped up spending. And there is no denying that Soviet defense expenditures also increased over this same period, even as their economy was on life support.
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