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Old 03-24-2010, 10:38 AM #1
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8th Annual 3 man YG Series at Fox. SPLATTERZONE PRODUCTIONS




Were looking forward to another GREAT SPP Young Guns season at Fox PB.
I have received alot of request from players that are looking for a team, or looking for players. Feel free to use this thread as a "FREE AGENT" thread for this series.
Players and teams are welcome to post flyers at the Fox Field if you need a player or team too.

If we have good weather and the ground dries up, the first event will be played on a brand new hard bunker field at Fox in April. If this field is not completed by the event #1 April event date, then we will play event #1 on April 25th on TRAPSHOOT.
And we will play all other events on airball as long as we have 10+ teams at every event. If the series continues to grow throughout the series, then we might even play the final event in September on the Sodded X BALL field.

Post up any questions, and check out the websites for more info;

WWW.FOXPAINTBALL.COM

WWW.SPLATTERZONEPAINTBALL.NET
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Old 03-24-2010, 06:59 PM #2
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^^^^ EVERYONE SHOULD DO THIS TOURNEY!!!!! its at a great field, great staff, good prices, and great compatition!!!!! good luck ray! hope its a good season
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Old 03-28-2010, 06:17 PM #3
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Start getting those registrations in, April is just a few days away.
Event #1 will be played on a brand new field at Fox, and this will be the first time this field is ever played.
Take advantage of the pre registration discount for pre paying for the entire series up front.
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Old 03-28-2010, 06:59 PM #4
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Horrible refs imo. Me and my team lost a game that would have taken us to finals but we got points deducted for this:

One of my friends and I are still in and our other teammate is out, as well as their whole team. My friend went to go hang the flag and while doing so was turning off his gun, meanwhile the ref told me to go "over there" pointing to dead box because we both figured he has hung the flag by now, so I did. My friend got called out for turning his gun off in the middle of the game and I got called out for stepping out of bounds. So, we got riped off for points that we would have had for a flag hang and two alive players. Which would have taken us to the finals. Even if that was a rule, they never told us about it, and it was never in print anywhere, it was two out of three of our first tournaments, but tourney playing friends of mine have never heard of such a dumb ****ing rule like that one as well. Oh, and I wasn't much of a fan of the field layout... that's just me and my guys though.

In other words..the refs seemed like they had another team in mind about who they wanted to win...
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Old 03-28-2010, 07:48 PM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rivrfreak View Post
Horrible refs imo. Me and my team lost a game that would have taken us to finals but we got points deducted for this:

One of my friends and I are still in and our other teammate is out, as well as their whole team. My friend went to go hang the flag and while doing so was turning off his gun, meanwhile the ref told me to go "over there" pointing to dead box because we both figured he has hung the flag by now, so I did. My friend got called out for turning his gun off in the middle of the game and I got called out for stepping out of bounds. So, we got riped off for points that we would have had for a flag hang and two alive players. Which would have taken us to the finals. Even if that was a rule, they never told us about it, and it was never in print anywhere, it was two out of three of our first tournaments, but tourney playing friends of mine have never heard of such a dumb ****ing rule like that one as well. Oh, and I wasn't much of a fan of the field layout... that's just me and my guys though.

In other words..the refs seemed like they had another team in mind about who they wanted to win...
WOW! not trying to be mean and i see why you have a reason to complain but this is an AMAZING series. it gives us young guns the chance to get out there and get some competition and offers it to all of us even some of the young guns that arent offered this level of competition anywhere else. and as for the field layout, who gives a ****, its not like you have a good chance of practicing it over and over because it is shown day of the event. great series, probably some of the best events run by Splatterzone, and Ray, will there be 5 man events this year because me and my team are definitely playing this series!
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Old 03-28-2010, 10:50 PM #6
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PYROMAN, we will have a payment in for probably all the events hopefully by halfway through april or so!
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Old 03-29-2010, 08:49 AM #7
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rivrfreak View Post
Horrible refs imo. Me and my team lost a game that would have taken us to finals but we got points deducted for this:

One of my friends and I are still in and our other teammate is out, as well as their whole team. My friend went to go hang the flag and while doing so was turning off his gun, meanwhile the ref told me to go "over there" pointing to dead box because we both figured he has hung the flag by now, so I did. My friend got called out for turning his gun off in the middle of the game and I got called out for stepping out of bounds. So, we got riped off for points that we would have had for a flag hang and two alive players. Which would have taken us to the finals. Even if that was a rule, they never told us about it, and it was never in print anywhere, it was two out of three of our first tournaments, but tourney playing friends of mine have never heard of such a dumb ****ing rule like that one as well. Oh, and I wasn't much of a fan of the field layout... that's just me and my guys though.

In other words..the refs seemed like they had another team in mind about who they wanted to win...

Sorry to hear you had a bad event. Now to the explanation...

If you didnt know about these rules, then you didnt read the paper that was handed to you when you signed in that had all of these rules listed, didnt see them on the three websites they were posted on (Fox, SPLATTERZONE, and here on PBN) and you did not pay attention to ME when I went over all of these rules BEFORE the game started at the Team meeting.
Theres a reason I have TEAM MEETINGS and not just Captain's meetings. This way EVERYONE knows whats going on and nobody can say they didnt hear it. And yes, I do a role call for every team before I start the meeting each time.
Both of the penalties your complaining about were explained before every event last year. This is a "TEACHING TOURNAMENT". What this means is that were preparing you for the next level of tournament play while playing in a very strong entry level event.
Most of the Referees we use for our events are PSP Certified Referees. There were several events last year where I was the only Ref out there that was not PSP Certified, but I have run and Reffed this series for the past 8 years, and have played in many hard core tournaments throughout my 18 year playing career.
So what your explaining happened to you was just that, a penalty. You definitly should have been penalized for turning your gun off, and stepping out of bounds is also an elimination penalty. Welcome to tournament play. If you think the call was a bad call, and that we were bias in anyway, then you should have complained about it right then and there. Coming here on PBN in an open forum 8 months later isnt going to help you on the field.
And as proof that were not bias in any way, shape, or form, my son plays on one of the Young Guns teams. Everytime his team comes on the field to play, I step off the field and I dont Ref that particular game. And no teams are Sponsored by Fox Paintball, so we have no agenda and no reason to have one team win over another. Sounds like you need a shot of "GOOD Sportsmanship", and need to learn that you cant (And wont) win everytime.
For the layout... Sorry?? What else can we say? We change up the layout before every Young Guns event, and its always set up the Friday before each event. This way teams can come out on Saturday to play on it during Open Game Speedball. We do not allow teams to practice on our YG fields before game time as team practice.
So all I can say is, if you didnt like your first taste of tournamant play, and you think we were to hard on you because of penalties, then you may want to consider NOT playing in tournaments, or, suck it up, blow it off, and try harder not to make simple mistakes that cost you a playoff spot. Tournaments from this level on up arent going to get any easier, thats for sure. And the penalties from here on out will just be more stiff and Ref's will only be alot stricter on their calls. Dont blame the Referees and event promoter for your own simple mistakes. What you have explained was your own fault, a simple mistake, a call that was explained very clearly, a call that definitly should have been called, and the Ref Staff had nothing to do with it, except catch you doing it, which is their job, and which they did well.
Learn from your own mistakes, and play better next time, thats about all we can say.
Your always welcome to come back for this years series. You may want to try another event or two at other fields before you decide to come back just to see that what we do at our events is pretty much standard at any event. This is tournament play, and it is what it is.

PYROMAN
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Old 03-29-2010, 08:53 AM #8
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Originally Posted by Badboyd497 View Post
Ray, will there be 5 man events this year because me and my team are definitely playing this series!
We would love to have a 5 man event. Were going to promote it early this year and will try to have it at the end of the series like we tried last year. We just need more teams this time.
If we have a really good turnout at the beginning of this years series, I might try to have a 5 man right in the middle of the 3 man series. This way alot of teams will be able to combine teams together for a 5 man event.
And were making some big changes at Fox this year. We may be eliminating the SUPAIR field, and im trying to have all tournaments played on the Sod field once the ground gets solid. Air fills right at the field? Nice!!
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Old 03-29-2010, 11:34 AM #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PYROMAN View Post
We would love to have a 5 man event. Were going to promote it early this year and will try to have it at the end of the series like we tried last year. We just need more teams this time.
If we have a really good turnout at the beginning of this years series, I might try to have a 5 man right in the middle of the 3 man series. This way alot of teams will be able to combine teams together for a 5 man event.
And were making some big changes at Fox this year. We may be eliminating the SUPAIR field, and im trying to have all tournaments played on the Sod field once the ground gets solid. Air fills right at the field? Nice!!
YES!!! sounds great
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Old 03-29-2010, 08:03 PM #10
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If you ever need an extra ref let me know Ray hope its a good season!
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Old 03-30-2010, 06:58 AM #11
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If you ever need an extra ref let me know Ray hope its a good season!
Ill keep it in mind. We may be short one Ref in June, so ill let you know. Thanks!
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Old 03-30-2010, 04:04 PM #12
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penality

Quote:
Originally Posted by PYROMAN View Post
Sorry to hear you had a bad event. Now to the explanation...

If you didnt know about these rules, then you didnt read the paper that was handed to you when you signed in that had all of these rules listed, didnt see them on the three websites they were posted on (Fox, SPLATTERZONE, and here on PBN) and you did not pay attention to ME when I went over all of these rules BEFORE the game started at the Team meeting.
Theres a reason I have TEAM MEETINGS and not just Captain's meetings. This way EVERYONE knows whats going on and nobody can say they didnt hear it. And yes, I do a role call for every team before I start the meeting each time.
Both of the penalties your complaining about were explained before every event last year. This is a "TEACHING TOURNAMENT". What this means is that were preparing you for the next level of tournament play while playing in a very strong entry level event.
Most of the Referees we use for our events are PSP Certified Referees. There were several events last year where I was the only Ref out there that was not PSP Certified, but I have run and Reffed this series for the past 8 years, and have played in many hard core tournaments throughout my 18 year playing career.
So what your explaining happened to you was just that, a penalty. You definitly should have been penalized for turning your gun off, and stepping out of bounds is also an elimination penalty. Welcome to tournament play. If you think the call was a bad call, and that we were bias in anyway, then you should have complained about it right then and there. Coming here on PBN in an open forum 8 months later isnt going to help you on the field.
And as proof that were not bias in any way, shape, or form, my son plays on one of the Young Guns teams. Everytime his team comes on the field to play, I step off the field and I dont Ref that particular game. And no teams are Sponsored by Fox Paintball, so we have no agenda and no reason to have one team win over another. Sounds like you need a shot of "GOOD Sportsmanship", and need to learn that you cant (And wont) win everytime.
For the layout... Sorry?? What else can we say? We change up the layout before every Young Guns event, and its always set up the Friday before each event. This way teams can come out on Saturday to play on it during Open Game Speedball. We do not allow teams to practice on our YG fields before game time as team practice.
So all I can say is, if you didnt like your first taste of tournamant play, and you think we were to hard on you because of penalties, then you may want to consider NOT playing in tournaments, or, suck it up, blow it off, and try harder not to make simple mistakes that cost you a playoff spot. Tournaments from this level on up arent going to get any easier, thats for sure. And the penalties from here on out will just be more stiff and Ref's will only be alot stricter on their calls. Dont blame the Referees and event promoter for your own simple mistakes. What you have explained was your own fault, a simple mistake, a call that was explained very clearly, a call that definitly should have been called, and the Ref Staff had nothing to do with it, except catch you doing it, which is their job, and which they did well.
Learn from your own mistakes, and play better next time, thats about all we can say.
Your always welcome to come back for this years series. You may want to try another event or two at other fields before you decide to come back just to see that what we do at our events is pretty much standard at any event. This is tournament play, and it is what it is.

PYROMAN
OK, everyone I thought the same. The first tourney were played in at Fox in April in the mud bowl was a disaster for my sons team, the Sons of Anarchy. Nothing went right and we were penalized right out of winning. I was hot. I went to Ray and I was explained all the rules that I did not read and why. I took everything Ray said to heart and had the SoA adjust there style of play to meet what Splatterzone expected of us. I think Ray was happy with the change in the teams performance. We finished the series with out getting another penalty Ray correct me if I am wrong. It was a great learning experience for the boys. They are ready for this year. Go Young Guns. Ray, you are the man.

Ray there is one thing that I need to ask right now and that has to do with player eliminations. According to PSP rules, I have gotten 2 different answers and bioth say they are right, if a ref sees a paintball bounce off a player and break in mid air, the paintball not leaving any type of paint mark on the player getting hit, is the player in or out??

Lenny

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Old 03-30-2010, 07:04 PM #13
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Rivrfreak,
I'm sorry you had a bad experience. Last year was my son’s frist year playing. I believe he had a great overall experience and learned alot. I added up all the penalties his team (Dogs) received throughout the year and without them they could have received first place in the series. They didn't go a single event without picking up a penalty for something. Silly kids would even get the same penalties the next event (teenagers). I think we will work on that this year.

Alenone,
That’s a good question on the paint break. What I have seen at other events is when a ref is willing to go out on a field and check for a break, it is not called if there was no paint on a player. If a ref is afraid to get hit and doesn't leave the sideline they will call a mid air break, an out. Of course that is just my opinion. So, Ray in or out? You can give a politicians answer tell us it would depend on the situation.
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Old 03-30-2010, 09:53 PM #14
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Ray there is one thing that I need to ask right now and that has to do with player eliminations. According to PSP rules, I have gotten 2 different answers and bioth say they are right, if a ref sees a paintball bounce off a player and break in mid air, the paintball not leaving any type of paint mark on the player getting hit, is the player in or out??

Lenny

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Well, to start, I just want to be clear to everyone that we DO NOT follow all of the PSP rules and guidelines. The reason is, were a "Teaching Tournament". We do follow alot of their guidelines, but we always have our own rules in line that work well with our event structure.

As far as a paint break; This is a very difficult rule, and much more difficult to watch from the sidelines. What we consider a "Break" would be any player that hits a player and leaves any size mark, whatsoever. If a player acknowledges a break, reacts from a ball hitting them, or knows a ball may have broke on them, its that players responsibility to call for a paint check.
Alot of players prefer not to call for a paint check on themselves because they dont want to be eliminated from the game. The downside of this would be to get caught playing on, which would result in a major penalty, and possible player ejection.

Being in this sport for 18 years, and having PSP and experienced Staff working these events, they better not be afraid to get in the line of fire in order to make a call. You will see us making obvious calls from the sidelines at times, and we prefer to ref from the sides rather that directly on the field. This assures all players that we dont want to intentionally get in anyones line, or have players jumping over us during play because we were in the way.

It does take alot of the new teams (And parents) an event or two to get accustomed to our rules and how we run our events. We try to be extremely diligent with our calls, try to help players after games with pointers, and try to assure a good time for all players. We do put alot of time & effort into this series, and take pride in what we do.
As for Lenny, well, I still dont like him (I love him, LOL)

Hope this clears it up a little.
A confirmed hit with any mark is considered a break.
A confirmed hit that hits a player, bounces off and splits in the air away from a player with no paint on that player would be extremely difficult to recognize as a break, and would be considered a bounce and not an elimination.

PYROMAN
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Old 03-30-2010, 10:24 PM #15
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Hey im from Minnesota and i plan on bringing my team to this turny. But as the rules go any size mark of paint counts as an out. Also a ref should always look for players that react since paintballs don't always break (duh) As in the player if the paintball mark is in an area that a player could not notice and/or see during the game there would not be a penalty towards that player but a warning.

My Minnesota team is ready and I hope that this will be a ton of fun!
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Old 03-31-2010, 08:29 AM #16
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Everyone is overthinking and critiquing these rules WAY to much. This is a YOUNG GUNS SERIES. Were here to have fun, and were not out to argue every call.
Were happy to talk about calls on the field, but thats where the calls will end. Lets have more fun this year, and remember what this series is all about!!
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Old 03-31-2010, 08:43 AM #17
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OK, So we are straight on the issue. The paintball must leave a shell or paint on the player, and that player is called out by himself or the ref. Great call.

OK, now I have one more question to get an answer to. Overshooting. If there is a player in a bunkered position and the other is in an offensive position, running up the field shooting 12.5 BPS and the defensive player, who is bunkered is in battle with the opposing player, the offensive player has a lane on the bunkered player while running up field in full stride and said player is shooting streams/ropes of paint at the bunkered player and of that 3 seconds of shooting 5 paintballs are broken on the player and the ref yells game and the bunkered player out, but there is still paint in the air going towards the bunkered player, which will and did make contact on the bunkered player, is that overshooting? The bunkered player also is not claiming overshooting. The offensive player stopped shooting when the ref calls the player out. What is your take??
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Old 03-31-2010, 08:49 AM #18
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Originally Posted by PYROMAN View Post
Everyone is overthinking and critiquing these rules WAY to much. This is a YOUNG GUNS SERIES. Were here to have fun, and were not out to argue every call.
Were happy to talk about calls on the field, but thats where the calls will end. Lets have more fun this year, and remember what this series is all about!!
Ray, please don't make more of this than it really is. Your/Refs calls have been perfect in the series we have attended. It is just clarification of questions I had. Yes this is a great fun series and we are hoping for another fun year at Splatterzone.

If you want PM.

Lenny
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Old 03-31-2010, 04:44 PM #19
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OK, So we are straight on the issue. The paintball must leave a shell or paint on the player, and that player is called out by himself or the ref. Great call.

OK, now I have one more question to get an answer to. Overshooting. If there is a player in a bunkered position and the other is in an offensive position, running up the field shooting 12.5 BPS and the defensive player, who is bunkered is in battle with the opposing player, the offensive player has a lane on the bunkered player while running up field in full stride and said player is shooting streams/ropes of paint at the bunkered player and of that 3 seconds of shooting 5 paintballs are broken on the player and the ref yells game and the bunkered player out, but there is still paint in the air going towards the bunkered player, which will and did make contact on the bunkered player, is that overshooting? The bunkered player also is not claiming overshooting. The offensive player stopped shooting when the ref calls the player out. What is your take??

If im understanding the question right, the offensive player shot and hit the bunkered player 5 times, the bunkerd player was called out, and then more shots from the offensive stream still hit that (Now dead) player??
To us, the first 5 shots that break (We dont count bounces) would be considered overshooting, so yes, that would definitly be a penalty.
The way we typically make this call is if its "Intentional Overshooting". This means dont take the shot unless you have to. It only takes one shot to eliminate a player, and were always trying to teach all of our YG Players to use self control. This goes for overshooting, arguing, sideline Coaching, etc.
Normally 3-4 shots from a single player to another is acceptable. This means a player "could" get shot 9-12 times, but all three players from the opposing team need to shoot 3-4 shots at the defensive player all at the same time, and they all broke.
The reason is simple; This series is designed for players with little to no playing experience, and no tournament experience above the Young Guns level. If players are getting railed on game after game, then they wont come back to our series, and most likely no other tournament series either. If this happens, then were not doing our jobs correctly, and this series would be sensless to run.

And trust me, we always like to answer questions before the series begins. This way players can speak up and give their opinions about certain calls, and can remind me of something I may miss during the Team Meetings.
We do change our rules from time to time, thats just part of tournament play. So keep the questions coming, thats th eway we keep this series growing.
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Old 03-31-2010, 05:11 PM #20
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Overshooting

Ray, Well Ray, you almost close, but the offensive player is in a running stride coming up/down the field from the Back Can shooting across field. He is shooting from the Dorito Side to Command Center on the snake side. Some of the paint started on the bunker and moved on to the player, remember that there is still paint in the air as the ref calls the player out.
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Old 03-31-2010, 05:12 PM #21
Spartan 03
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alenone View Post
OK, So we are straight on the issue. The paintball must leave a shell or paint on the player, and that player is called out by himself or the ref. Great call.
I am one of the refs for the YG series. I can see where you probably got 2 answers on this call. In PSP, the call is refs discression, and if a ref clearly sees the hit and the break, even if it leaves no mark, they can call the player out. Since several of the refs at Fox YG are certified and experienced PSP refs, one or two refs may have been calling the game a little closer than is the intention of the Fox YG series. We're changing up who we're having ref this year in an effort to have the same pool of refs for the whole season, so those little gray areas should be fewer.
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