Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 04-06-2010, 02:58 PM #22
The Inflicted
.detcilfnI ehT
 
The Inflicted's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean6942 View Post
Another factor people seem to be forgetting is that kick has a lot to do with accuracy. A spool valve gun like a luxe, matrix, or shocker will be more accurate than a tube stack with a spring return/blow back no mater what air system or paint to barrel match you have.
I disagree. While spool-valved guns have more noticeable recoil than something like an Ego, let alone a Tippmann, I don't think the vibration impacted on the shooter's hands is enough to materially effect the accuracy of the gun.

You can feel a difference, but that doesn't mean it's enough to throw off your aim.

If you can show me some sort of tangible proof of this I might change my mind.
The Inflicted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sponsored Links Remove Advertisement
Advertisement
Old 04-06-2010, 04:03 PM #23
Sean6942
Beast Mode
 
Sean6942's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: *207*
 has been a member for 10 years
Sean6942 plays in the PSP
Sean6942 is for the Gunfight
Sean6942 plays in the APPA D3 division
how about if the gun moves up, down, left, or right a few centimeters when the ball is fired from one corner of the field, translates to feet at the opposite end.
__________________
Sean6942 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2010, 04:23 PM #24
The Inflicted
.detcilfnI ehT
 
The Inflicted's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean6942 View Post
how about if the gun moves up, down, left, or right a few centimeters when the ball is fired from one corner of the field, translates to feet at the opposite end.
If it actually moved that much ("centimeters") then yeah, it might.
They don't though, unless you have severe arthritis or something.
The point is that even with an old blowback with huge moving parts like a VM-68, it's still not difficult to hold on target.
The Inflicted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2010, 09:43 PM #25
Phryxis
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
While spool-valved guns have more noticeable recoil than something like an Ego, let alone a Tippmann
I'm assuming you mean less, right? I was under the impression that spool valves have the least of all designs.

The stacked valve popped guns have a big brass hammer jumping back and forth...

Not that I disagree with your point, the recoil of a paintball gun is negligable. The only time it'd be of any real note is if you're in such a ridiculous position that you can't weld down the gun at all.

Quote:
The point is that even with an old blowback with huge moving parts like a VM-68, it's still not difficult to hold on target.
Well, a very heavy gun will also have less felt recoil than a light one, so in that regard a lot of these high end guns with their lightness obsession are actually MORE prone to recoil than similar, but slightly heavier designs.

But you never hear people saying that a light gun has more recoil, because it's (unsurprisingly) not mentioned in the marketing materials.

Of course, AGAIN, I must agree with your main premise, which is that paintguns have no recoil of any note.
Phryxis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-06-2010, 09:53 PM #26
The Inflicted
.detcilfnI ehT
 
The Inflicted's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Right, sorry.
Spool valves have less recoil.
Ram-driven electropneumatics and blowbacks have more.

This is just a generalization, mind you, and varies quite a bit depending on how much moving vs. stationary mass we're talking about and how fast it's moving. My SLG, a spool-driven gun, actually kicks more than my old Wrath.

And the VM was a bad example because it IS heavy, but it still kicks like a mule compared to a matrix.

But all of these markers are *****cats compared to real steel.

Last edited by The Inflicted : 04-06-2010 at 09:55 PM.
The Inflicted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2010, 09:36 PM #27
theultimatehero
seiborg
 
theultimatehero's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: SO-Al, Canada
Annual Supporting Member
theultimatehero is reppin' sidebar 4 life
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShockVVave69 View Post

This actually is not true. The quality of the paint and the smoothness of the bore are much more important factors when determining accuracy. Paint/barrel match only effects consistency/efficiency/noise.
You got part of it right.

I know accuracy is a bit of a tangent, but you guys seem to be a little confused as to what accuracy is. Accuracy is technically the same thing as consistency. You can hit absolutely any thing with any paintball gun that shoots a paintball 300 fps no matter how small a target it may be, but the question is can you do it more than once? or more importantly as many times as you need to?

Easily the biggest factor when it comes to consistency is paint. Better paint that is more consistently sized and shaped means better accuracy. How smooth the bore of a barrel is is darn near irrelevant because all boring machines do about the same job whether it is a cheap barrel or expensive barrel.

After paint the most important issues will be consistency in terms of air regulation, and kick. Both of these issues are pretty small compared to paint, but both are what the better guns provide. A more expensive gun has a higher level of engineering and design specifically to make the gun kick less and be more consistent.

If you were shooting a single shot at a time a low end will be just as accurate as a high end, but its when you shoot multiple shots at a time you notice the difference in consistency much more, which is why a high end has a slight edge in terms of accuracy. Buy nice paint and there is a much smaller difference.
__________________
"For the homies in the dead box"
Matrix Owners Legion
G6r||Audi A4||Matrix


theultimatehero is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-07-2010, 10:38 PM #28
shakenbake55 (Banned)
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Location: jerzee
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShockVVave69 View Post
One point everyone has missed here is that with a well build high end(not all high ends are equal and many are more "hype" than anything) you will also chop MUCH MUCH less.

Between my viking, excal, freeflow matrix, and droid I've chopped perhaps 10 balls in the last 7 years. And every one that I can remember was my fault for messing up some setting. Keep in mind that a barrel break is not a chop. (Yes I still consider my high ends of 7 years ago high ends to this day )

Also high end guns are generally more precise markers due to their better consistency. A gun shooting +/- 3 fps will get that ball on ball action you are looking for much better than the gun shooting +/- 10 or worse.

A general list of general benefits high ends offer:

-Better precision due to consistency and smoothness (less kick = better precision)
-Smoothness
-Consistency
-Smaller size and lower weight (Sometimes)
-MUCH lower odds(close to impossible) to break a ball in breach
-Better quality build (Most of the time)
-Generally better trigger setups(makes it easier to walk)
-Better shoots per fill (generally)

I'm probably missing other points but it doesn't really matter. Also if you are planning on upgrading guns it's generally best to buy used. The quality of gun you can get used for $300 compared to new for $300 is a world of difference due to how much paintball guns depreciate after being purchased brand new. (Just like a car depreciates as soon as it drives off the lot so does a paintball gun as soon as its box gets opened)



This actually is not true. The quality of the paint and the smoothness of the bore are much more important factors when determining accuracy. Paint/barrel match only effects consistency/efficiency/noise.
well i have a mini which isnt a high end gun and it doesnt chop at all. last tims it chopped was completely my error in not having the eyes on. other than that the gun doesnt chop at all. cant remember the last time it chopped and i run atleast a case through it a week
shakenbake55 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2010, 05:34 PM #29
younggunna6898
AKA
 
younggunna6898's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Location: ***socal***
Just shoot a high end gun and you will see/feel the difference...and trust me, the difference is night and day
younggunna6898 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2010, 05:53 PM #30
Phryxis
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
 has been a member for 10 years
I'd think anything with properly functioning eyes would be nearly immune to actual chopping.
Phryxis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2010, 08:30 PM #31
wgpballer5
Cannabis Corpse
 
wgpballer5's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Nor☆Cal
wgpballer5 supports Team VICIOUS
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phryxis View Post
I'd think anything with properly functioning eyes would be nearly immune to actual chopping.
Definitely not. Eyes prevent just one of the reasons for chopping.
__________________
"Originally posted by HITW's BigBird: Wgpballer5, you make surfing these threads worth it:tup:"
"Originally posted by general3624: I feel acomplished, wgp posted in one of my threads"
"Originally posted by SpyderPB819: wgp smacks 'dem hoes"
wgpballer5 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2010, 08:53 PM #32
jonotwist
fistfull o'sunshine & joy
 
jonotwist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NE ohio
Annual Supporting Member
jonotwist is playing at Living Legends VII
jonotwist plays in the APPA D4 division
jonotwist is one of the top 500 posters on PbNation
jonotwist supports Empire
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean6942 View Post
Another factor people seem to be forgetting is that kick has a lot to do with accuracy. A spool valve gun like a luxe, matrix, or shocker will be more accurate than a tube stack with a spring return/blow back no mater what air system or paint to barrel match you have.
you seem to forget that that isnt the gun's fault accuracy, its the user.
hold your gun firmer, with a better grip. and all of this imaginary "kick" people seem to think up of will go away.

and spools arent any more accurate that poppets.
__________________
Speak, if you're worth the listening
vintage old feedback High Tech Shiny Feedback

Breakout Actions Sports Wenies Buy Elsewhere
jonotwist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2010, 09:04 PM #33
The Inflicted
.detcilfnI ehT
 
The Inflicted's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Chattanooga, TN
Quote:
Originally Posted by jonotwist View Post
you seem to forget that that isnt the gun's fault accuracy, its the user.
hold your gun firmer, with a better grip. and all of this imaginary "kick" people seem to think up of will go away.

and spools arent any more accurate that poppets.
Yet another factor is the rate of fire.
Most spools tend to be very fast guns compared to to electroblowbacks, not so much because of their design but because their users will likely have top-range hoppers and be able to afford large amounts of paint. When you shoot a 20bps stream of paint, it's going to look much more solid and consistent than a 13bps stream, simply because it's unbroken.
The Inflicted is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-09-2010, 09:35 PM #34
Phryxis
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Eyes prevent just one of the reasons for chopping.
I was only aware of one: closing the bolt when the ball isn't fully chambered.

Sure there's plenty of ways to break paint, but there's only one way to chop...

For example I guess if the bolt's motion was too violent, it could break a ball simply by impacting it, but that seems unlikely. I really don't know what I'm talking about though, I don't own a gun with eyes. The closest I have is an IR3, which has the "COPS" system, which is a precursor to eyes (and probably inferior), and I've never had a chopped ball in that gun.
Phryxis is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2010, 12:31 PM #35
HostileIntent
Run Thru Ninja
 
HostileIntent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: MA
 has been a member for 10 years
HostileIntent owns a Planet Eclipse Geo
A high end gun just makes things easier. Less breaks, finer tuning, tooless disastmbly. Everything people mentioned. One thing you can't buy though is skill...
__________________
JG the 187 cheater beater run thru masta overshoot blasta!

*1ne

"you gotta get that money no matter how you do... secret inditement ****, right thur"
HostileIntent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-12-2010, 07:34 PM #36
venom_kayko
 
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
So spool valve is the way to go?
venom_kayko is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2010, 03:17 AM #37
IslandP8ntballer
Paintballin' in paradise
 
IslandP8ntballer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: The 808 State
IslandP8ntballer supports Cereal Killerz 2
IslandP8ntballer has perfected Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
IslandP8ntballer has achieved Level 2 in PbNation Pursuit
IslandP8ntballer has achieved Level 3 in PbNation Pursuit
So basically a high-end gun has nothing to do with playing ability but just preferences, reliability and some off-field advantages? Is that really what factors a $100 gun vs a $1000 paintball gun?
IslandP8ntballer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-13-2010, 08:59 PM #38
Ninj-ew
 
 
Ninj-ew's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: South Orange County
Ninj-ew is playing at Living Legends V
Ninj-ew posts videos on PbNation
Quote:
Originally Posted by Drift07 View Post
Well if the differences only come down to weight and kick, I'm not gonna go drop more money on another marker. Thanks for the help everybody.
When you're running to the snake off break, a lb. makes a huge difference.
Ninj-ew is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2010, 11:28 AM #39
lostsaint
 
 
lostsaint's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: New Brunswick, Canada
lostsaint owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
lostsaint supports Team VICIOUS
lostsaint plays in the APPA D5 division
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sean6942 View Post
Another factor people seem to be forgetting is that kick has a lot to do with accuracy. A spool valve gun like a luxe, matrix, or shocker will be more accurate than a tube stack with a spring return/blow back no mater what air system or paint to barrel match you have.
heres your
__________________
Thistle SLS
lostsaint is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2010, 04:27 PM #40
jonotwist
fistfull o'sunshine & joy
 
jonotwist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2006
Location: NE ohio
Annual Supporting Member
jonotwist is playing at Living Legends VII
jonotwist plays in the APPA D4 division
jonotwist is one of the top 500 posters on PbNation
jonotwist supports Empire
Quote:
Originally Posted by venom_kayko View Post
So spool valve is the way to go?
no, the question to ask is if you want a spool valve.
__________________
Speak, if you're worth the listening
vintage old feedback High Tech Shiny Feedback

Breakout Actions Sports Wenies Buy Elsewhere
jonotwist is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2010, 05:23 PM #41
shenaniganz (Banned)
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
i think some of these poppets have less 'recoil" than spools like dm's and luxes imo

ever shoot a upped vice, cyborg, marq?
shenaniganz is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 04-16-2010, 05:45 PM #42
AdoubleGMEDIA
SWAG
 
AdoubleGMEDIA's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: **845**
AdoubleGMEDIA owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
AdoubleGMEDIA posts videos on PbNation
Quote:
Originally Posted by IslandP8ntballer View Post
So basically a high-end gun has nothing to do with playing ability but just preferences, reliability and some off-field advantages? Is that really what factors a $100 gun vs a $1000 paintball gun?
Did you not read any of the previously typed posts?
__________________
--NewYorkStormPaintball--
AdoubleGMEDIA is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump