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Old 03-23-2010, 07:56 PM #1
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High end markers, what's the deal?

Ok to start with, I've never shot a high end marker. I'm wondering if anyone can tell me.. in actual details not just " get one, they're better", what is it with high end markers that make them so much better than say, a spyder?

Now I'm in no way saying that a spyder is just as good as any high end marker, because again I've never shot one. I just want to know the major differences.

Right now I've got a vs1, gotta clamping feedneck for it, new two piece barrel, I really like it. And I only play rec ball. However, I'd like to hit up some tournaments in the future and I was looking at the DP G3's. But I can't justify going out and spending 300 bucks on a new marker unless I know that I'm really going to see some major differences. I mean I know they'll be a little bit lighter.. not a huge deal to me, I'm not playing with thousands of dollars on the line. And as far as speed goes, heck, the vs1 is suppose to do 20 a second.. not sure if it actually can, but that's what it says. Either way, it's overkill in my opinion. So I can't really see high ends are better for their speed.

Is it just how smooth they shoot? Is it that they're much easier when it comes to walking the trigger? Is it worth it to look into a high end gun for someone in my position? Don't get me wrong, I love to play paintball, but I'm not rich and I like to be careful about spending money. Paint and air is gonna cost enough as it is lol. Anyway, if anyone could give me any info on what the deal is exactly with high end guns, it'd be appreciated.
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Old 03-23-2010, 07:58 PM #2
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youre fine w/ the vs1, use what u have
edit:
high end guns --> G3 imo are nice but no high end (ex. luxe, ego, pm, dm, even etek 2/3's imo)
- very reliable
- more consistent (can fix with a good reg.)
- come with everything you need with/o upgrading
- more shots per fill
- smoother
- etc.
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Old 03-23-2010, 09:28 PM #3
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So basically nice to have, but not necessary to compete at low levels?
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Old 03-23-2010, 10:15 PM #4
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Quote:
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So basically nice to have, but not necessary to compete at low levels?
Not at all
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Old 03-24-2010, 01:05 AM #5
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As long as your gun will shoot the cap, you can use it.

Looks, weight, "kick", and air efficiency can affect your choice.
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Old 03-24-2010, 08:27 AM #6
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I think that the bigger diference is that highend markers are more accurate. When You send 30 balls to Your oponent with highend gun You can be sure that all of them goes directly to him, in lowend gun, You can't be sure of that
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Old 03-24-2010, 10:54 AM #7
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its basically the difference between a KIA and a BMW. They both get from point A to point B, but the BMW is waaaaaaay nicer to drive.
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Old 03-24-2010, 11:29 AM #8
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Quote:
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its basically the difference between a KIA and a BMW. They both get from point A to point B, but the BMW is waaaaaaay nicer to drive.
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Old 03-24-2010, 04:44 PM #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by loocha View Post
I think that the bigger diference is that highend markers are more accurate. When You send 30 balls to Your oponent with highend gun You can be sure that all of them goes directly to him, in lowend gun, You can't be sure of that
I have seen (and own) low-end blowback guns that shoot +/-2fps over the chrono and shoot ball on ball accuracy-wise. The particular gun design or method of delivering air to the paintball has nothing to do with accuracy.

In those cases, the low-end blowback guns I've seen perform that way were simply running a regulator and/or Hpa, and shooting the best quality paint available, through a clean, bore-matched barrel. That's it.

The reason people think low-end guns can't be accurate is, well, because most people who own low-end blowbacks don't use a reg, don't shoot high quality paint, and don't clean or maintain their guns.

Accuracy is not a reason to buy a high-end gun. But there are other reasons to buy them, which other people have already mentioned.
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Old 03-24-2010, 04:50 PM #10
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its basically the difference between a KIA and a BMW. They both get from point A to point B, but the BMW is waaaaaaay nicer to drive.
Well, hold on now... A Kia is simply not as fast as a BMW (within similar model years, etc). Yes, there's all sorts of stuff like road feel, leather seats, left and right A/C... But at the end of the day, the BMW is also just faster, and when you're in a race, it's better.

So I can't make that analogy work for today's paintball guns. When I was big into the game, the "low end" guns were absolutely inferior. They were less consistent (and thus less accurate), they broke more paint, they broke down more, they had worse feel, worse triggers, etc. etc. etc.

Now I still see the "leather interior" bit. When I look at the top end guns in terms of the stuff they come with, the fit and finish, they seem very nice. But in terms of raw performance, it seems like the mid/low end guns are a LOT closer/equal now than they were 5 years ago (when I last played heavily).
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Old 03-25-2010, 08:48 AM #11
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Well if the differences only come down to weight and kick, I'm not gonna go drop more money on another marker. Thanks for the help everybody.
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Old 03-25-2010, 12:06 PM #12
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This whole accuracy debate has raged on since the days of automags and cockers. People claimed cockers were more accurate because they were closed bolt and bla bla bla. Then came shockers vs. angels. At the end of the day, a well setup tippman is going to be just as accurate as a DYE NT or Ego or Luxe or whatever out of the box.


Accuracy has to do strictly with paint/barrel match assuming your gun is chronoing consistently. Its not rocket science, really. Theres a reason why bad company could use spyders and be very competitve against teams in 10 man like dynasty, strange, etc. The guns themselves have perks and upgrades, and your high end markers will break down less, have more consistency in different weather conditions, etc. because its inherently built into them. Low end blow backs are fine for any level of play, but you're eventually going to want something that can shoot 30 BPS and be small, light, compact, and super efficient.
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Old 03-27-2010, 12:12 PM #13
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It's more like the difference between a Bic ballpoint pen and a Waterman.

Both of them work exactly the same and neither one actually effects what it is you write with them.

However, the more expensive pen might feel a little nicer in your hand and other people are going to notice what a fancy pen you have. For some people, that second part is very important.
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Old 03-29-2010, 04:42 AM #14
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build quality, and stock features.
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Old 04-02-2010, 03:47 PM #15
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Hold on now... Most of you have done a good job of explaining what the diferences are, but I think that this kid (I'm assuming you are a teenager) is getting the wrong impression. Lets take your spyder vs-1 and compare it to an ego10 (only because I have one...)
They sell your vs-1 at a couple af online pb atores for $150
they sell the ego for $1250
-Price leads to a lot of things that I will get to in a second.

For $150, that gets you
-a 45* frame
-quick release bolt
-one part vision system
-2-way adjustable trigger system
-an expansion chamber
-10" 1-piece barel
-up to 20 bps firing rate
-standard feedneck which is in need of an elbow

Now, for the ego. $1250 gets you (ive highlited the items that you gain from an ego)
-2- piece 14" barrel
-eclipse circuit board with almost unlimited customization possibilities
-the option of opto, or micro switch trigger activation
-vision with two sets of sensors instead of one
-a regulator instead of an expansion chamber
-self purging on/off asa instead of a standard, non purging system
-clamp lock feedneck
-higher end bolt system
-the gun itself is of a much better quality
-planet eclipse backs their product with a warranty that is second to none

Sure the spyder and the eclipse guns both have similarities like they both have "frames" and "barrels" and they both have circuit boards, but its how those parts are manufactired that really sets them apart. So if you wanted to spend that kind of money, you would feel the difference between a sub-$250 marker and a high end marker like dm's, pm's, ego's etc...
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Old 04-05-2010, 08:34 PM #16
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Adouble has a good layout for the argument.

Its also the Manufacturing of the guns. Egos are very finely built, tuned and tested. Where as more of the tippmans and spyders are on more of a simple assembly line. Built, shoots shipped.

Its alot like a Kia vs BMW. Its the quality of the name as well as the product.
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Old 04-05-2010, 08:45 PM #17
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its like getting into a really nice car.
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Old 04-05-2010, 09:52 PM #18
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One point everyone has missed here is that with a well build high end(not all high ends are equal and many are more "hype" than anything) you will also chop MUCH MUCH less.

Between my viking, excal, freeflow matrix, and droid I've chopped perhaps 10 balls in the last 7 years. And every one that I can remember was my fault for messing up some setting. Keep in mind that a barrel break is not a chop. (Yes I still consider my high ends of 7 years ago high ends to this day )

Also high end guns are generally more precise markers due to their better consistency. A gun shooting +/- 3 fps will get that ball on ball action you are looking for much better than the gun shooting +/- 10 or worse.

A general list of general benefits high ends offer:

-Better precision due to consistency and smoothness (less kick = better precision)
-Smoothness
-Consistency
-Smaller size and lower weight (Sometimes)
-MUCH lower odds(close to impossible) to break a ball in breach
-Better quality build (Most of the time)
-Generally better trigger setups(makes it easier to walk)
-Better shoots per fill (generally)

I'm probably missing other points but it doesn't really matter. Also if you are planning on upgrading guns it's generally best to buy used. The quality of gun you can get used for $300 compared to new for $300 is a world of difference due to how much paintball guns depreciate after being purchased brand new. (Just like a car depreciates as soon as it drives off the lot so does a paintball gun as soon as its box gets opened)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fat_Joe View Post
Accuracy has to do strictly with paint/barrel match assuming your gun is chronoing consistently.
This actually is not true. The quality of the paint and the smoothness of the bore are much more important factors when determining accuracy. Paint/barrel match only effects consistency/efficiency/noise.
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Old 04-06-2010, 12:31 AM #19
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Originally Posted by Fat_Joe View Post
This whole accuracy debate has raged on since the days of automags and cockers. People claimed cockers were more accurate because they were closed bolt and bla bla bla. Then came shockers vs. angels. At the end of the day, a well setup tippman is going to be just as accurate as a DYE NT or Ego or Luxe or whatever out of the box.


Accuracy has to do strictly with paint/barrel match assuming your gun is chronoing consistently. Its not rocket science, really. Theres a reason why bad company could use spyders and be very competitve against teams in 10 man like dynasty, strange, etc. The guns themselves have perks and upgrades, and your high end markers will break down less, have more consistency in different weather conditions, etc. because its inherently built into them. Low end blow backs are fine for any level of play, but you're eventually going to want something that can shoot 30 BPS and be small, light, compact, and super efficient.
bad company spyders wasnt really spyders they was more timmys than spyders lol
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Old 04-06-2010, 12:40 AM #20
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Accuracy has to do strictly with paint/barrel match assuming your gun is chronoing consistently.
It also has to have a lot to do with the paint itself.

I have nothing to back it up, but I'd tend to think that paint is probably the primary factor in accuracy. Balls of consistent size and weight, with an even, perfectly spherical surface, will fly much more consistently than balls that are lacking in those categories.

Velocity consistency is also pretty important. Worth a couple inches in vertical group size.
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Old 04-06-2010, 02:05 PM #21
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Another factor people seem to be forgetting is that kick has a lot to do with accuracy. A spool valve gun like a luxe, matrix, or shocker will be more accurate than a tube stack with a spring return/blow back no mater what air system or paint to barrel match you have.
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