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Old 02-10-2009, 09:18 AM #1
cutstep
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can you fill a co2 tank with hpa?

maybe a dumb question but if I put an hpa reg on a co2 tank could I fill it safely? the steel co2 tanks appear to be the same as the steel hpa tanks except they are smaller...
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Old 02-10-2009, 09:31 AM #2
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No. They use 2 different fill type stations to fill them . Co2 tanks have a pin valve and hpa tanks use a reg with a fill nipple port.
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Old 02-10-2009, 09:35 AM #3
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I would take the valve off the tank and put an hpa valve on it..... what Im asking about is.... is it safe to do?
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Old 02-10-2009, 10:13 AM #4
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yes you can, but it is HIGHLY INADVISABLE!
I have done some research and it seems that in the past (early to mid 90') it was quite a common practice.
The operational pressure was 1800psi.
again,
can it be done? YES
is it safe? PROBABLY YES, to SOME EXTENT
is it worth loosing an arm while trying? NO
buy a 13ci tank
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Old 02-10-2009, 10:17 AM #5
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cutstep View Post
I would take the valve off the tank and put an hpa valve on it..... what Im asking about is.... is it safe to do?
Whoops..sorry read that incorrectly. As the above poster stated it can be done has been done but not worth doing.
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Old 02-10-2009, 11:05 AM #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cutstep View Post
I would take the valve off the tank and put an hpa valve on it..... what Im asking about is.... is it safe to do?
The bottle does not know what kind of gas it gets. I have put CO2 valves on the 47CI HPA bottles before and vice versa. It has been done many times by many people and it is an economical way for Airsmiths to have a test bottle on their bench for testing purposes.

You will be limited by the lowest pressure rating in this Case it will be the bottle it self. 1800 PSI, when you put the regulator on it you will need to change the high side burst disk from either a 7.5K or the 5K rated one to a 3K rated one. This will prevent you from filling the bottle beyond its burst pressure.
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Old 02-10-2009, 01:44 PM #7
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CO2 tanks are designed to hold CO2. In other words, a liquid/gas that is around 900 PSI. HPA tanks need to reliably hold 3000 PSI. That's over 3 times as much. If you fill a CO2 tank with HPA, it can only safely be filled to 900 PSI, and as most of you know that isn't a lot of air. Any more and you are exceeding what the tank was designed for in an unsafe manner. However, you can easily put CO2 into a tank designed for HPA as long as you change the regulator for a pin valve.
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Old 02-10-2009, 02:56 PM #8
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LotusElise View Post
CO2 tanks are designed to hold CO2. In other words, a liquid/gas that is around 900 PSI. HPA tanks need to reliably hold 3000 PSI. That's over 3 times as much. If you fill a CO2 tank with HPA, it can only safely be filled to 900 PSI, and as most of you know that isn't a lot of air. Any more and you are exceeding what the tank was designed for in an unsafe manner. However, you can easily put CO2 into a tank designed for HPA as long as you change the regulator for a pin valve.

The bottle manufacturers stamp the rated pressures right on the tank the bottles used for CO2 are stamped for 1800 psi which is the working pressure of the bottle not the burst pressure. most HPA bottles used in the paintball industry have working pressures of 3000 and 4500 psi their bust pressures are well above that. If the bottle is stamped at 1800 psi you can safely fill to that 1800 because that is what they are rated for.
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Old 02-10-2009, 03:12 PM #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LotusElise View Post
CO2 tanks are designed to hold CO2. In other words, a liquid/gas that is around 900 PSI. HPA tanks need to reliably hold 3000 PSI. That's over 3 times as much. If you fill a CO2 tank with HPA, it can only safely be filled to 900 PSI, and as most of you know that isn't a lot of air. Any more and you are exceeding what the tank was designed for in an unsafe manner. However, you can easily put CO2 into a tank designed for HPA as long as you change the regulator for a pin valve.


You're seriously going to go against what a certified airsmith says?
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Old 02-10-2009, 03:28 PM #10
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Old 02-10-2009, 05:44 PM #11
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The airsmith doesn't understand that fill stations at your standard paintball area only fill to 3k or 4.5k PSI. Getting a special, low PSI fill is not practical nor will your local store do such a thing. Getting the lowest standard HPA fill, 3k psi, is dangerous. You should never put HPA into a CO2 tank. You can put pressured air into a CO2 tank, just not 3k worth, which is the industry standard. Also, the tank regulators burst discs will not function properly either since the tank is likely to fail before they do. This is a bad idea.
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Old 02-10-2009, 05:48 PM #12
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well I can fill the tank to as much as I like.... there is a gauge on the fill station and you just stop when its gets to a certain pressure....
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Old 02-10-2009, 05:48 PM #13
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well I can fill the tank to as much as I like.... there is a gauge on the fill station and you just stop when its gets to a certain pressure....
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Old 02-10-2009, 06:46 PM #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LotusElise View Post
The airsmith doesn't understand that fill stations at your standard paintball area only fill to 3k or 4.5k PSI. Getting a special, low PSI fill is not practical nor will your local store do such a thing. Getting the lowest standard HPA fill, 3k psi, is dangerous. You should never put HPA into a CO2 tank. You can put pressured air into a CO2 tank, just not 3k worth, which is the industry standard. Also, the tank regulators burst discs will not function properly either since the tank is likely to fail before they do. This is a bad idea.
I am also a fill station operator. The fill station operator is required to inspect the bottle prior to filling and only fill bottles to their rated pressure. Since fill stations are operated by humans who are supposed to be trained according to 49 CFR172.700 (Codified Federal Regulations) and 29 CFR 1910.101 how to inspect and fill bottles they should know how to fill the bottle to its indicated pressure limits.

The burst disk issue was addressed in my first comment in this thread.
Answer this question CO2 Burst disks are rated to what pressure?

Answer is 1800 PSI

What pressure are CO2 bottles hydrostaticly tested to?

Answer 3A, 3AA, 3AL (most common CO2 bottles) 5/3s of service pressure. 1800 x 5/3 = 3000

http://www.c-f-c.com/gaslink/docs/dot_cylinder.htm




Placing 1800 PSI in a bottle rated for 1800 PSI is perfectly fine and it is also legal.


What did you say your qualifications in this area are?

Edit....added the 3AL
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Last edited by DSDM : 02-10-2009 at 07:18 PM.
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Old 02-10-2009, 07:02 PM #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LotusElise View Post
The airsmith doesn't understand that fill stations at your standard paintball area only fill to 3k or 4.5k PSI. Getting a special, low PSI fill is not practical nor will your local store do such a thing. Getting the lowest standard HPA fill, 3k psi, is dangerous. You should never put HPA into a CO2 tank. You can put pressured air into a CO2 tank, just not 3k worth, which is the industry standard. Also, the tank regulators burst discs will not function properly either since the tank is likely to fail before they do. This is a bad idea.
Dude you're sounding like more and more of an idiot with every post. You're like the people that argued that the world was flat. You're just wrong period. Maybe you should find out what it takes to be an airsmith and then you'll see that he is knowledgable in the area. You aren't. You're an idiot who is trying to act smart and failing miserably at it.
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Old 02-10-2009, 07:03 PM #16
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DSDM View Post
I am also a fill station operator. The fill station operator is required to inspect the bottle prior to filling and only fill bottles to their rated pressure. Since fill stations are operated by humans who are supposed to be trained according to 49 CFR172.700 (Codified Federal Regulations) and 29 CFR 1910.101 how to inspect and fill bottles they should know how to fill the bottle to its indicated pressure limits.

The burst disk issue was addressed in my first comment in this thread.
Answer this question CO2 Burst disks are rated to what pressure?

Answer is 1800 PSI

What pressure are CO2 bottles hydrostaticly tested to?

Answer 3A and 3AA (most common CO2 bottles) 5/3s of service pressure. 1800 x 5/3 = 3000

http://www.c-f-c.com/gaslink/docs/dot_cylinder.htm




Placing 1800 PSI in a bottle rated for 1800 PSI is perfectly fine and it is also legal.


What did you say your qualifications in this area are?
pwnd

According to donut man, you could do it, but the reason I don't see it being worth it is the financial side. A 20oz Co2 tank costs, around $25-$30, and I'll use a Myth reg for example, around $35, minus taxes and shipping if you order online. That comes out to $55-$60, when a 48/3000 tank is about that much, and will hold much more air than a 20oz tank.
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Old 02-10-2009, 07:17 PM #17
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Please listen to DSDM he is correct in everything he says you can fill it to 1800psi and lotus stop sounding like a ******* please
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Old 02-10-2009, 07:27 PM #18
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Though I know it's somewhat off topic.
Why not just get a new tank? I know it's expensive but all this really does not sound worth it.

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should
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Old 02-10-2009, 07:32 PM #19
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Though I know it's somewhat off topic.
Why not just get a new tank? I know it's expensive but all this really does not sound worth it.

Just because you can, doesn't mean you should
The reason most people do that is because they have extra pieces laying around and they need an air bottle for a test bench, or they just want a light weight bottle for a pump.
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Old 02-10-2009, 08:03 PM #20
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I want to use a 4 oz steely tank and you cant get them for under $50 anymore....
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Old 02-11-2009, 08:43 AM #21
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