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Old 03-22-2010, 11:01 PM #1
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Suppressed markers? Yes or no?

My scenario team uses custom suppressors, home made and non-illegal type. Since we act as a covert and special missions team, suppressors help to keep up unseen and unheard. What is your opinion on suppressed markers? Do you support it or oppose it?
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Old 03-22-2010, 11:06 PM #2
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Originally Posted by SWATPaintball Leader View Post
My scenario team uses custom suppressors, home made and non-illegal type. Since we act as a covert and special missions team, suppressors help to keep up unseen and unheard. What is your opinion on suppressed markers? Do you support it or oppose it?
Actually it was kind of fun, especially for an American in Europe feeling as if he could go wild, legally. WHat made it even better was the beer was so much better than the crap we sell here and call beer.
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Old 03-22-2010, 11:13 PM #3
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there are seven million threads about silencers and people who are trying to impress or looking to be impressed with them.... anyway you slice it they are illegal on a paintball gun.... no ifs ands or buts about it.... unless you are willing to get a specific permit for one and pay $200 per year and submit to background checks.... I have had face to face discussions with atf agents myself and we have been back and forth over and over as well as the guys from opsgear and specops.... if you are using silencers then you are in violation of the law
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Old 03-22-2010, 11:15 PM #4
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Are you in the USA?

http://www.atf.gov/regulations-rulin...ing-2005-4.pdf

Looks like if a suppressor is integral to the operation of the paintball marker, and removal of the suppressor would render the marker inoperative, and understanding that removal of the suppressor would be legally "making" a firearm suppressor, a fixed and permanent paintball suppressor appears to be legal as long as it remains part of the paintball marker.

It would look, from the BATFE's writings, that what you've got is not legal in the US.

Disclaimer - I am not an attorney, the above is not legal advice, but a layman's interpretation of a government document.
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Old 03-23-2010, 12:30 AM #5
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Thanks gents! Advice highly appreciated. Legality is always a issue with suppressors in paintball. Our suppressors are more like dampeners, just foam cylinders place on our muzzle breaks. Havent been discluded from a field yet or had atf issues. But we will begin to use them much less now. Thanks alot gents!
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Old 03-27-2010, 12:05 PM #6
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If ATF wanted to make a case, MAYBE they could make your life miserable.

In the REAL World, they have more important priorities chasing bad people.
Just keep it out of sight and off your marker until you get home or one the paintball field. If anyone askes what it is, A barrel protector.

I have USED a sound suppresser and NO field has ever even discussed whether or not I should use it. One that actually worked but with some practical limitations.

It was/is used on a highly modified, very low pressure, closed bolt action autococker. One on One in a silent environment, players with the typical engagement ranges up to 25 yards could STILL hear it but had difficulty LOCATING the source of the sound. Now in a noisy environment with other markers firing within 50-70 yards of you, it was un noticeable.

Most blow back markers like spyders, tippmans etc would not be practical as the blow back mechanism generates as much, if not MORE, noise than the barrel report.

Another practical consideration is your paint color. At most scenario games, they require you to use THEIR paint which is typically high visibility colored paint the rec players like to SEE where they are missing and correct their point of aim. Few fields allow you to bring your own 'invisible' paint. Fewer still, provider 'invisible' paint for the sniper role players. So a quiet marker is only ONE component of Concealment.

FYI "invisible" paint is solid shell color BLACK or Dark Green.

As always, I share how to make a sound suppressor for a marker. Just e mail me. ddupont@charter.net
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Old 04-13-2010, 02:39 PM #7
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Truth be told, I don't know that most field owners know the ATF regulations, and if they did I don't think they would hassle you about it. But to legally use a suppressor is a lot more trouble than it's worth.

Using a spool valve marker would probably be your best bet to keep quiet. Ions and DMs, among others, fit that bill pretty nicely. I get the sense you like milsim markers, I know you can buy milsim body kits for the ion, or else the SP-8 is basically the same gun, with the milsim body already on it.
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Old 04-13-2010, 03:19 PM #8
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Never seen a single promoter tell somebody they can't use a suppressor.

People just don't because they're basically useless on a paintball gun. Money is better spent elsewhere on things that can actually help you, like a Freak kit.
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Old 04-13-2010, 06:41 PM #9
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People just don't because they're basically useless on a paintball gun. Money is better spent elsewhere on things that can actually help you, like a Freak kit.
Yeah, but think about how many other useless accessories are sold, like barrel shrouds, tactical flashlights, milsim body kits, plus things that people still think are useful even though they've been proven useless like rifled barrels, scopes, etc. and people actually use them. I think people would use suppressors if they were commercially available, but they aren't sold because of the legal issues.
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Old 04-19-2010, 09:05 PM #10
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My friend made a silencer and it actually works well.
Sounds awesome, looks kind of stupid though...
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Old 04-22-2010, 07:24 AM #11
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anyway you cut it, the suppressors are illegal. there are legal ways to go about it, but involves a tax stamp and giving up a lot of your 4th amendment rights. Dale is right, the BATFE does have bigger fish to fry, however you don't want to be that guy. If your luck is anything like mine, you'll end up clearing rooms with a rookie in the BATFE looking to establish him/herself. And then you'll be having some regrets. I haven't met a producer who didn't allow suppressors. Lots of people make the attempts.

I did something similar to what Dale alluded to. You have to look at what makes your specific gun noisy. On some markers, the action of the marker is just as loud as the shot. You want the pressure behind the ball to be as close to non-existent as it leaves the barrel as possible. The pressure has to have a means to escape the barrel before the ball does and room to expand. You also want to be sure you aren't creating negative pressure in the barrel before the ball exits as well. it takes some real trial and error and a very consistent marker. Dale hit it on the head with the autococker. We're talking about the old school cockers that were a tinkerer's gun, not the dumbed down version we see now. You can fine tune these markers and find pneumatics that, when properly maintained, will be almost perfectly consistent in both volume and pressure.

What I ended up with that silenced my markers (autococker, phantom VSC) were really impractical. in a crude description, weight and size-wise it was like an unopened 2 liter bottle attached to the end of your marker.

To be realistic though, paint will handicap even the most technically perfect suppressed marker. we don't have paint that is perfectly round for a perfect seal. we don't have paint that weighs exactly the same as every other ball in the case. and as Dale touched on again, we rarely have FPO paint that is the right color or quality for something as such.

If I could make a recommendation, modify a high end pump gun to fire first strike rounds and work on suppressing that. those rounds should be easier to silence than the standard round ball with more linear surface area to contact the bore of the barrel.
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Old 05-08-2010, 04:54 PM #12
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Lots of opinionated information here, not so much in the way of facts. They are illegal if they can also be made to work on a firearm. A properly constructed suppressor/raincover, what have you for paintball is not illegal.

Read the ATFs rules, they are out there and they've weighed in on the subject of paintball and suppressors many times. Information is your friend.
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Old 05-08-2010, 06:55 PM #13
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Lots of opinionated information here, not so much in the way of facts. They are illegal if they can also be made to work on a firearm. A properly constructed suppressor/raincover, what have you for paintball is not illegal.

Read the ATFs rules, they are out there and they've weighed in on the subject of paintball and suppressors many times. Information is your friend.
If it is removable, then the AFT can 'prove' that it will work on a firearm. If it's fixed permanantly to the barrel you'd be fine. This has been brought up on several firearms forums I'm on an SO numerous times.
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Old 05-08-2010, 08:20 PM #14
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And, to my understanding, how easy it is to remove doesn't matter, it's whether it can be removed at all. So, if you have a suppressor welded or soldered to your barrel, you could still theoretically grind the paintball barrel off, making it firearm ready, which is illegal.
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Old 05-11-2010, 07:23 AM #15
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You can walk down a street minding your own business and be busted for something if the cops want to. Ask any black man.....

You need to give them a reason to cause you trouble. Don't transport it mounted on the marker. Don't have it mounted on the barrel until you get to the field. Don't leave it in plain view for a traffic stop to start asking questions. I got a going over inspection by the Highway Patrol after he saw my bazooka in the back of the van. Showed him the bins of gear, markers, etc. including that piece of pvc pipe and cork filling inside it with no end caps on. It didn't even register as a silencer when he looked at it. He did his duty and didn't hassel me. Of course, I am a white, old fart.

When TJ drove to his first game with his suburban 'technical' and twin 50 cals mounted in the turret plus a cannon barrel resulted in him almost NOT making the game. Every jurisdiction he traveled through got 50 cell phone calls from people going down the interstate with him and he got stopped by law enforcement multiple times. He had to stop and take the turret OFF to get to the game.

The reason they call them 'suppressors' in the paintball marketing ads is they don't WANT to call them 'silencers'. Still this one was called a silencer on the webpage.

[IMG]http://www.**********************/images/PRODUCT/large/Punisher_KIT_BT.jpg[/IMG]

I would go a step further and call it a 'barrel protector' and not be stupid enough to call it something you said that they could use to prosecute you. Its use and purpose is something the prosecutor has to PROVE. Remember a pillow makes a pretty good silencer. Duct taped to a gun or not. They going to bust grandma for her heart shaped embroideried pillow cases? He should have better things to do with his budget. Unless, of course, he or the sheriff is up for re-election and wants to make some headlines busting terrorists.... Then drop the charges after the election.

And one MORE TIP, don't speed, have any open containers, pot, etc., don't need a security clearance for your job, and don't have any outstanding warrents or unpaid parking tickets. Don't have a rap sheet. Like DUH! Because if they want to push the point, it could be intrepreted to be a bonefide silencer and use it for leverage to cut a plea for the other charges..
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Old 05-11-2010, 08:22 AM #16
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Why not?

Hey, I don't think a cop, or a field reff or owner is going to make a big deal about a prosthetic attachment on a scenario marker. First of all, any high end scenario barrel already has a muzzle break which functions the same way (minus the outer case) as a silencer. Take mine, I have a custom made 21" PMI three piece with rifling. The end piece (the muzzle break) is called "The turbulence compensator" and is advertised to reduce sound by 40% A lot like a silencer huh. Countless Mil-sim barrels have such a Muzzle break, so if it is illeagal to have something that looks like a silencer, then why do they sell something that works just like one??????????????? Hey, They look F%#@ing awesome!!!!! So, just make one out of a Mag lite (you know, the flashlight) and mount in on a 6-10 inch cheap threaded barrel which you should know to drill rows of holes in, and now you have a threaded, professional looking. legal silencer. OH and the law prohibit the Use and sale of silencer on Firearms firearms as in bullets.
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Old 05-11-2010, 08:27 AM #17
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Listen to. Dirty_Deuce hes got this on lock-down.
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Old 05-11-2010, 09:49 PM #18
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It prohibits (without a tax stamp) the use or sale of supressors that could be converted to be used on firearms. (and the whole bullets=firearms doesn't work because in some jurisdictions a paintball marker is classified as a firearm)
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Old 05-12-2010, 02:05 AM #19
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What jurisdiction in the US is a paintball marker considered a fire arm?

Don't believe it.
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Old 05-12-2010, 07:57 AM #20
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Thanks

I don't care what it says in the law book, if you go up to any ho-dunk hicksvill cop and say "hey, dose this look illegal?..............I got this paintball gun at wall-mart... are you gonna' arrest me?" his answer will probably be no.
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Old 05-12-2010, 08:23 AM #21
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One more thing

Hey. anyone. do something for me. to prove a point. Go to www.opsgear.com we've all heard of it. they sell legally, silencer.(non-functional) how dose a cop know the difference? unless you allow him to take it apart during a traffic stop. so there you go. they are not illegal on markers, or the sale would be prohibited.
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