A Mech Alien???? Say Whaaaaaat??????

kaboose01 · 03-17-2010, 02:22 AM

Seems like xxxxxxxxxx.com has gotten hold of a little snippet that Alien is coming out with a mech......

Care to elaborate on this Jack???

anyone wanna bet this is a pump????

insixdays777 · 03-17-2010, 09:12 AM

SOLD. This is going to be GREAT!

I dont care if its pump, blowback or cocker. I am buying one. My ND shoots so nice. The market has not had a highend gun company make a Mech marker in many many years. This is very exciting.

eternalmergy · 03-17-2010, 09:31 AM

pump?
SCORE.

BillyBob79 · 03-17-2010, 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by insixdays777

SOLD. This is going to be GREAT!

I dont care if its pump, blowback or cocker. I am buying one. My ND shoots so nice. The market has not had a highend gun company make a Mech marker in many many years. This is very exciting.

CCM? Palmers?

Regardless I'd be interested if Alien came out with one.

insixdays777 · 03-17-2010, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyBob79

CCM? Palmers?

Regardless I'd be interested if Alien came out with one.

Those are both GREAT companies however I do not consider them highend gun companies. I was referring to companies who focus on making tournament level high end markers based on the latest and greatest technology. CCM and Palmers have been making the same mechs for 15+ years.

Dye last made its mech autococker and pump in 2001ish?
Macdev had their own autococker around the same time.
Smartparts had their own autocockers and mags and pumps up untill in the late 90's early 2000's
Bob Long had a spyder clones and cockers and pumps.
PE had their own cockers.

I miss those days. Alien rolling old school would be AMAZING.

XxAltecxX · 03-17-2010, 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by insixdays777

Those are both GREAT companies however I do not consider them highend gun companies. I was referring to companies who focus on making tournament level high end markers based on the latest and greatest technology. CCM and Palmers have been making the same mechs for 15+ years.

You are mistaken. Just in case you wanted to know.

BillyBob79 · 03-17-2010, 02:59 PM

The $500-up mark is generally considered the high-end range. Seeing as you can't get a complete, new CCM or Palmer for less than that I'd say they're definitely high-end. Having owned and/or extensively used guns from both companies I can say they're definitely high quality regardless of what you pay for them.

If Alien/Jack decides to make a high end mechanical he'd actually be doing the exact opposite of what those companies all did. They started out making mechs based on someone elses general designs and moved on to "improved" electronic versions of those markers. Come to think of it most of them actually started making accessories/upgrades, then went on to producing complete guns. To my knowledge Alien didn't do such and went straight into making complete guns. It'd be just like if Angel all of a sudden produced a mech. They were one of the first companies to produce electros and they never made a mech. It'd be interesting to see what Alien could come up with. Jack seems to produce high quality products with good engineering.

edit: Please don't take that as arguing, I'm just trying to point out a few facts. I understand what you're saying about those other companies though. I've used some of the old guns you were refering to.

insixdays777 · 03-17-2010, 03:28 PM

I understand what you are saying. We just have different ideas of what it means to be highend. You base yours on a price point. I base my on technology involved.

Both Palmers and CCM make some of the best mech markers around. No doubt an outstanding quality product. I am sure just as you said Alien's mech marker will be quality as well.

BillyBob79 · 03-17-2010, 03:50 PM

But the manufacturers you pointed out more or less all used the same technology as CCM and Palmers when those companies still made mech guns. That technology being stacked tube poppet designs, with the exception of AGD. So be it technology, manufacturing quality, or price point, all the companies that WE have mentioned are high end. You could even say that CCM has better technology seeing as they continue to improve their mech/pump guns, the T2 being a prime example. But like I said they're all high end no matter which of those 3 categories you consider.

insixdays777 · 03-17-2010, 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyBob79

But the manufacturers you pointed out more or less all used the same technology as CCM and Palmers when those companies still made mech guns.

That is my entire point. At the time the technology those companies used was the most radical new technology anyone dreamed of. Cockers, mags and stacked tube blowbacks where revolutionary new high end technology when most people where running around with pumps. What made those companies "highend" back in the day was thier new technology. Those companies continued to innovate through the years. All making advances in technology witch allowed them to maintain their highend status. Eyes, electropneumatic, magnet controlled poppets, LCD LED boards, guns that chirp, guns that talk, spool valves and so on.

Its no different today. Its a technology race. Thats why my definition of what it means to be highend is entirely based on technology.

Yes cockers, palmers mags and blowbacks where all highend at some point in their life, but are not anylonger no matter how much collector value they might have. No matter what outstanding quality they are made with (I have many mags, old school cockers ect, I will and always be a old school fan boy)

Its the same thing that is going to happen to my Clone or Alien in 2-5 years. Hopefully technology passes them both and I can shoot my new highend Alien and Macdev and chuckle at my primitive 2010 guns.

And so is progress and that is it what it means to me to be highend in my opinion.

Great discussion billybob79. You made me think today!

BillyBob79 · 03-17-2010, 04:52 PM

And you have a good point about them being revolutionary for their day. Which is why I'm curious as to what Jack may have in mind if he really is considering making a mech marker. Call me stubborn but I think CCM is still about as cutting edge as a a mech/pump gets even though they've simply improved on old school stuff. For Jack to come up with something truly revolutionary will take some work. The high quality I'm sure he has figured out already. But design wise what possibilites still exist for a completely mechanical/pneumatic design? Personally I have some ideas but I don't have the machinery or the experience required to run the machinery. Jack seems to have good ideas and the machines, so maybe only time will tell.

Oh and it's definitely nice to have an intelligent conversation on PBN, it's not something you find here everyday.

insixdays777 · 03-17-2010, 05:21 PM

A production pneumatic trigger mechanical anything would be unbelievable, however unfortunately as with so many things in companies paintball patent closets they just sit there and rot out of law suit fears and infringement issues.

Besides from that pipedream, I would love to see an Alien single trigger cocker.

Anyone even know if you can make cockers yet with out penalty/royalties/patents suits coming your way? Have the patents expired on them yet? (I am patent ignorant)

Also, I good revolutionary mech needs some kind of anti chop function. Especially if its blowback based. A well tuned autococker can live without one. Automags with out level 10 are really an exercise is personal restraint. They could shoot way faster than anything could feedback in the day. That is the only thing I dont miss about paintball in the mid 90's I loved my mags but if you could not control your self they where blenders. So thankful for lvl 10, anyway...

I wonder how Jack has addressed the chopping issue if the new mech is even a Semi?

BillyBob79 · 03-17-2010, 05:26 PM

http://haveblue.org/tech/patents/

that might help you become a little more patent savvy if you're patient enough to read through all those.

insixdays777 · 03-17-2010, 05:52 PM

that site is awesome. I found it a few years back. GREAT resource.

Quick google = utility patents last for 20 years. Looks like the autococker was released in 1991 (not sure when patented).

If my math is correct. Looks like 2011 can be a free for all for cocker makers.

Please feel free to correct me, just some thoughts and a little google foo.

BillyBob79 · 03-17-2010, 06:00 PM

http://haveblue.org/tech/patents/20060107937.pdf

on the topic of Aliens

kekjagung · 03-17-2010, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BillyBob79

http://haveblue.org/tech/patents/20060107937.pdf

on the topic of Aliens

found that piece in '07, when was trying to tech it... learned a few things from it tho...

kaboose01 · 03-17-2010, 10:04 PM

if anything it mite be a pump.... Jack seemed to be pretty impressed with a certain Remains pump that was really unique in the way the pump system worked.

Linkage:
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=2632685&

diablo8264 · 03-18-2010, 02:59 AM

im surprised nobody said this, but wasnt the revelation mech?

kaboose01 · 03-18-2010, 03:06 AM

i think it was electronic....

diablo8264 · 03-18-2010, 03:13 AM

kk, my bad. i just love thinking of a boltless marker that isnt the epic so i tend to bring it up more then i should.

kaboose01 · 03-18-2010, 05:09 AM

a bolt less pump sounds nice lol