Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-08-2010, 03:16 PM #1
J. Stein
 
J. Stein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
J. Stein is a Supporting Member
J. Stein is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
J. Stein plays in the PSP
J. Stein donated to help Peyton Trent
Thread of the Week: What do you think "Big League Sponsorship" looks like?

Real simple: What does "Joe Average Paintball Player" think sponsorship looks like for national level teams (pro & otherwise)?

What do you think teams are getting? Do you think the very top teams have seen a decrease in sponsorship, or just the middle of the road teams?

I'm curious what people's perception is.
__________________
Warzone Paintball & Airsoft
1-401-228-6366

Warzone Facebook
www.warzoneri.com

RIP Ronnie
J. Stein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sponsored Links Remove Advertisement
Advertisement
Old 03-08-2010, 03:27 PM #2
painter4life05
cixelsyd
 
painter4life05's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: An Attic
Annual Supporting Member
painter4life05 supports Cereal Killerz 2
painter4life05 donated to help Peyton Trent
Sponsorship Level based on a % level of retail cost they pay for gear like guns, soft goods, clothing, etc. (I do not know if I am going to put paint in this group)
Example Marker costing $1000 Retail
Pro 0-10% or Free marker
Semi Pro 25% or $250 marker
Division 1 35% or $350 marker
Division 2 50% or $500 marker
Division 3 60% or $600 marker
Division 4 70% or $700 marker
Division 5 80% or $800 marker

I think sponsorship has hit all levels of play but the lower levels harder than the higher ones.
__________________
painter4life05 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2010, 04:42 PM #3
fodash1
N E X
 
fodash1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: N.E.
 has been a member for 10 years
Free guns, free gear, free paint. That's what I always thought it was.
__________________
Christ†Krew
--Deadbox Media--
Click to watch Birth of a Storm EPISODE 1!
Follow and support the 2010 Hurricanes.
Click here to find them on Facebook and fan up! or Follow them on Twitter
fodash1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2010, 04:45 PM #4
pablo1756
G-R-I-M-E-Y
 
pablo1756's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: New England
I think you'll see most pro's this year be happy with just a free ride, and be content with not paying out of their own pockets. I would love to see the figure/amount of pro's paying out of their own pockets. Those players would gain a lot more respect in my eyes, cause they would be doing it for the love of the game, the right reasons, and not personal gain. 8 pro teams, how many on a roster (max) ? I wonder if Jeff or even propaintball.com could get a figure of how many pro players are paying out of their own pockets this season.
__________________
Boats And Hoes
Quack
pablo1756 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2010, 04:47 PM #5
Dirtybirdy51
Fuark!
 
Dirtybirdy51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Dirtybirdy51 is a Paintball photographer
pros must have taken a hit in sponsorship benefits in recent years.

what do i think pros get currently?

as far as free guns and gear go, i think that only some flagship company teams, like dye's ironmen, get their gear for free. and even then, i think that guns could still cost the players some (but no where near close to retail and definitely below 50% map).

aside from flagship teams, i believe that pro players still have to pay some money for their gear (guns included).
__________________
ST:F - Broscience/10
flickr
Originally posted by Black Angus: "So, apparently, if you post in the mountain climbing thread that you enjoy climbing because you can fap off the top of the mountain and watch your *** fly in the wind, you get banned."
AUD- passed, REG- passed, BEC- passed, FAR- scores due 3/10
Dirtybirdy51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2010, 05:11 PM #6
cronpaintball2007
www.cronpaintball.com
 
cronpaintball2007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
cronpaintball2007 is a Paintball photographer
cronpaintball2007 is an NCPA player
cronpaintball2007 plays in the APPA D4 division
Quote:
Originally Posted by fodash1 View Post
Free guns, free gear, free paint. That's what I always thought it was.

Looks like 50% of the sponsership letters i get!
__________________
Cron Monster Pods Now In Stock
CHECK OUT OUR NEW SHIRTS
cronpaintball2007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2010, 05:16 PM #7
fodash1
N E X
 
fodash1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: N.E.
 has been a member for 10 years
Quote:
Originally Posted by cronpaintball2007 View Post
Looks like 50% of the sponsership letters i get!
Maybe that's a good indicator of what "Joe average" is thinking. How many sponsership letters do you get? (ballpark)
__________________
Christ†Krew
--Deadbox Media--
Click to watch Birth of a Storm EPISODE 1!
Follow and support the 2010 Hurricanes.
Click here to find them on Facebook and fan up! or Follow them on Twitter
fodash1 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2010, 05:42 PM #8
cronpaintball2007
www.cronpaintball.com
 
cronpaintball2007's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
cronpaintball2007 is a Paintball photographer
cronpaintball2007 is an NCPA player
cronpaintball2007 plays in the APPA D4 division
depends if we advertise it. During the season 5-10 a week off season 1-5 a week if we advertise it maybe 10-15, that's ballpark and its crazy to see peoples variations of the idea of sponsorship and we have a survey asking tons of questions and few of them are to do with sponsorship to better understand what people think about it. Great thread

heres a link to the short version the long version we email

http://www.surveymonkey.com/s/KDVFPTT

Jeff let me know if this is inappropriate, I'm not trying to high jack your thread.
__________________
Cron Monster Pods Now In Stock
CHECK OUT OUR NEW SHIRTS

Last edited by cronpaintball2007 : 03-08-2010 at 05:51 PM.
cronpaintball2007 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2010, 10:22 PM #9
Rjutras15
fortune teller
 
Rjutras15's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2002
Location: newburyport, ma
Rjutras15 is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
Rjutras15 plays in the PSP
Rjutras15 supports Cereal Killerz 2
Rjutras15 donated to help Peyton Trent
I have no idea, but I would think that there would be more included in a sponsership at the pro level than free guns. I would think that the gun company would be giving cash or paying for other expenses as well. The value of a pro team or a team such as the Hurricanes shooting a particular gun is worth a lot more than what the company pays for a few guns.
__________________
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=422641
Feedback ^
Rjutras15 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2010, 10:24 PM #10
paintballbj11
BJ
 
paintballbj11's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Springfield, MA
paintballbj11 is a Professional paintball player
paintballbj11 plays in the PSP
paintballbj11 owns a Planet Eclipse Geo
paintballbj11 has achieved Level 1 in PbNation Pursuit
paintballbj11 has achieved Level 2 in PbNation Pursuit
pro players on high profile teams like for example the ironmen most likely do not have to pay for their first set of guns/gear. if they start asking for more jerseys/pants ect. i am willing to bet they have to pay somewhere around cost or a large fraction of it. they prolly dont have to pay for events but most likely have to pay to live down there, not hotel but food and what not.

the further down the line you go i can imagine teams have to start paying for their flights to events...then a small portion of their gear...then team dues for practice paint and general expenses.

i think that the days of anything and everything for free are gone, and are not going to come back for some time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rjutras15 View Post
I have no idea, but I would think that there would be more included in a sponsership at the pro level than free guns. I would think that the gun company would be giving cash or paying for other expenses as well. The value of a pro team or a team such as the Hurricanes shooting a particular gun is worth a lot more than what the company pays for a few guns.
i do not think companies like eclipse are paying pro teams to shoot their guns cash at all. they may give them free guns but can not imagine they are paying for anything other then guns and gear.
__________________
Fox 4 Paintball | Planet Eclipse | KEE | PbNation | ProPaintball
upTon 187 cRew #01
are you in a video game?

Last edited by paintballbj11 : 03-08-2010 at 10:26 PM.
paintballbj11 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2010, 10:37 AM #11
Dirtybirdy51
Fuark!
 
Dirtybirdy51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Dirtybirdy51 is a Paintball photographer
Quote:
Originally Posted by paintballbj11 View Post
i do not think companies like eclipse are paying pro teams to shoot their guns cash at all. they may give them free guns but can not imagine they are paying for anything other then guns and gear.
strongly agree.
__________________
ST:F - Broscience/10
flickr
Originally posted by Black Angus: "So, apparently, if you post in the mountain climbing thread that you enjoy climbing because you can fap off the top of the mountain and watch your *** fly in the wind, you get banned."
AUD- passed, REG- passed, BEC- passed, FAR- scores due 3/10
Dirtybirdy51 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2010, 11:10 AM #12
overweightangel275
Vanguard East Coast
 
overweightangel275's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Stoughton MA
overweightangel275 works for a Paintball manufacturer
overweightangel275 plays in the PSP
overweightangel275 is for the Gunfight
overweightangel275 is for the Gunfight
Honestly I think most teams competing at the national level are getting things at some sort of discount. Not many are receiving free gear or money for that matter. Why? because most teams want the gear and funding, and expect that gear and funding based on the division they compete at. And there is simply less room in the industry budget to invest money in something that has little or no return. It is very rare to find team going out of their way to support a sponsor. Maybe I'm wrong but I just don't see a lot of teams putting in the effort required to really gain an ally, or sponsor the help the team achieve their goals.

Lets break it down...
Guns and gear are given as a package from the major industry leaders. Based on where you stand as a team there is a tier to where you fit in. The discount is based of that.

Paint-Teams will have something set up where they shoot practice paint at a set rate and then at nationals pay a discount on the good stuff. Some more than others. But the days of free paint allowances are becoming a thing of the past.

Sorry for any errors or if I don't make sense. Running on low fuel with a lot of school work to do.
__________________
-Koker #37
East Coast Vanguard Marker Support
Looking for Demon and Creed Parts/Markers
http://www.vanguardpaintballusane.com
mike@vanguardpaintballusa.com
overweightangel275 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2010, 11:50 AM #13
HostileIntent
Run Thru Ninja
 
HostileIntent's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: MA
 has been a member for 10 years
HostileIntent owns a Planet Eclipse Geo
honestly i think it all depends on where you get your sposorship from. one persons own company through messing with right off and credits can give way more than saying to a paintball company asking for free gear. you coulkd turn any sposorship into gear if you get money. just the level you pay for that gear depends on how much money you got if you spend it on that. if you find a team that finds decent sposorship dollers and doesnt need to be head to toe brand new gear than money can be spent else where to decrease cost. i think being creative with where who and how you get your sponsorship is how most teams are gonna run now. i got so much free sponsor gear who cares if its a pball company that sponsors ya, most dont. id say look outside the box and go after the $$ and then everything from there will work out gear wise. i know i didnt answer your question but thats what i would do if i was looking for "big league sponsorship." get creative...only thing thats a must as i see it is free paint and free prac. paint. thats where youll waist money.
__________________
JG the 187 cheater beater run thru masta overshoot blasta!

*1ne

"you gotta get that money no matter how you do... secret inditement ****, right thur"

Last edited by HostileIntent : 03-09-2010 at 11:51 AM. Reason: more
HostileIntent is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2010, 01:20 PM #14
Fox4paintball
Home of upTon 187 cRew
 
Fox4paintball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Upton, MA
Annual Supporting Member
Fox4paintball is a Professional paintball player
Fox4paintball is an Ultimate field/store owner
Fox4paintball plays in the PSP
Fox4paintball owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
Fox4paintball owns a Planet Eclipse Lv1
Fox4paintball plays in the APPA D4 division
What does “Big League Sponsorship look like”? Interesting question – even more interesting answers.

I would venture a guess that most pro teams are getting gear for free. Gear is classified as clothing, protective wear, markers and loaders. They might even get a few “Soft” goods like t-shirts, hoodies, hats for free as a way to “advertise” their sponsors while hanging out. Paint is the real difference this season – I feel many pro teams have had their paint budgets reduced – meaning that at some point during the season they’ll either have to start paying for their practice paint (at a good price though) or stop practicing. Same goes for tournament paint if they’re playing in multiple series’. How do they pay for entry, travel, etc… I’m guessing that the top level teams get a certain amount of markers allocated to them – if they can sell them for List price they get a good bit of cash. The nice thing about this is that say Planet gives you a marker to sell – it might have cost them $450 to manufacture (including R&D payback) but they get to write off the entire retail value as marketing, so maybe they get to write off $1,200. The tax benefits have pretty much covered the cost of the marker – it’s a win – win. The company gets their product out in the market place and the teams get a little scratch to spend on entry, travel, etc.. However, I think more and more Pro teams are paying their own way when it comes to entry, travel, etc.. This may be in the form of a Sugar Daddy or maybe the players themselves.

I would be very surprised to find out that many other teams (divisional) are getting much in the way of gear or paint. The exceptions are the few highly marketable teams – such as a Vicious last season. I think the majority of the other teams that regularly play national events get the “Hook Up” from their local field and/or store. What does that mean – they offer them a great deal on gear, but nothing is free – maybe at cost. If your team isn’t directly affiliated with a field then I doubt you’re getting any paint for free. What do I mean by that – I mean if your team runs a field then you might be able to use your buying credits to get “Free” paint. However, you’re simply exchanging something the manufactures would have given you (Credit) for something else (Paint) – so you really paid for the paint anyway. Again the exception to this is the teams that have a Sugar Daddy to help cover some or all of the costs. I think many of these divisional teams are earning their sponsorships with work – meaning they work to earn the benefit. Teams like 187 Crew are required to ref tournaments for Fox 4 and Fox 4 in turn pays for their entry. Is that really a sponsorship, no. However, we have given them an opportunity to earn money or credit so that they can play paintball.

Unfortunately too many players feel that if they put the company logo on their jersey it should be worth X dollars. The fact is – putting the company logo on the team jersey is worth very little unless the team is well know, followed by many, etc.. and even then it is very difficult to measure the value.

The simple less to learn – nothing in life is free.

Treat every sponsorship request like a business deal – there has to be known value or at the very least agreed upon perceived value in order for a deal to work out. If you’re luck and work out a deal where you put the logo on your jersey in exchange for free paint it is just a matter of time before the company comes back to you upset that they got the short end of the stick and the deal blows up. It is usually very easy to articulate the value that a team gets. Free practice is time is worth X, Free paint is worth Y, Entry costs for events are Z, etc. On the other hand it is usually very difficult to put a value on what the Company is getting out of the sponsorship. What is the value of having the company logo on a jersey? Could be positive, could be negative – imagine the Fox 4 logo on a jersey of a player who gets expelled from a match or event of hitting a ref? Now imagine the value of the Fox 4 Logo on the jersey of a player who comes to the field every Saturday and volunteers his time to work with the young, up and coming players?

Back to the simple less – nothing in life is free.
__________________
Dave Painter
"Are you ready to play?"
Fox 4 Paintball
Home of upTon 187 cRew
(508) 529-FOX4 (3694)
www.fox4paintball.com
Fox4paintball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2010, 07:49 PM #15
disasterplaya
Roll Tide!
 
disasterplaya's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: whats
disasterplaya plays in the PSP
disasterplaya owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
disasterplaya is an NCPA player
disasterplaya plays in the APPA D1 division
^^This

I would agree that now because of the economy many sponsorships have grown smaller. Just look at NASCAR which is a sport built on sponsors. They are also seeing the crunch on sponsor dollars. That being said the top pro teams are still getting deals on paint, gear and guns. It is maybe not as much as in the past but they still get there fair share of stuff. Where the crunch has really happened is the lower level teams are not getting as much help in the sponsorship department.
__________________
Planet Eclipse

NY Outlaws.
disasterplaya is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2010, 08:15 PM #16
jmac3
 
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Mass
I don't think teams like Ironmen and All Americans(before their death) actually payed for anything.

Other teams I am sure do(I know you have stated that you have spent a lot).

I know I am probably wrong, but I am assuming that most pro teams at least get free gear/guns. I can't see many teams lasting if they had to pay for all their gear. Teams wear bunches of jerseys it seems, and if stuff rips.

As for paint, I always assumed a sponsorship for it was a budget. Go over the budget pay for it(at a discounted rate). Going by low prices I have paid for paint over the last few years there must be a pretty good deal for high level teams.

I still see teams working for their "sponsorship", and in the end I think there has to be a Jeff Stein with "mad scrilla" to keep the team running.
jmac3 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2010, 09:35 PM #17
EWMpaintball
Identity Paintball
 
EWMpaintball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: MA
EWMpaintball is for the Gunfight
EWMpaintball is for the Gunfight
EWMpaintball plays in the APPA D3 division
My thoughts and experiences....

I can give some perspective from what it was like and how it is now from a personal stand point.

When I was playing pro full time, everything was free. Guns, clothes, gears, you name it... I got more gear than was even needed. Practices were free, paint was free, and I was lucky enough to be on a premier team where we got the special special paint... All the travel was free for anywhere in the world. Paintball companies were giving money on top of product. There were even contigency prizes depending how you placed at events. It was crazy.... But that was because we were part of that top percent at that time.

What I stated above, it was like that for about half of the 16 pro teams at the time.

Amateur teams, were getting a fraction of that if you were one of the elite teams...

BUT..............

It is now 2010.... Anything I said, no longer exists!!! Unless you are a team like Dynasty or comparable...

Like what Dave just said, It now comes down to value, value, value...

There are only a few that are getting everything for free, and just a couple where the companies are paying cash and contingencies on top of that.

And yes, there are pros who are now paying to play... more than you think.

As for divisional teams... yeah almost all are paying for everything to a point.

Free paint? Almost all pro teams are paying wholesale for practice paint.

If you want to play tounament paintball, you are paying... that is the bottom line.... But yeah, there are exceptions and those special circumstances.... But not for average joe tournament player.

The industry is smarter now and they will not give away stuff that players have not earned.... And I can say that 99.9% of you haven't earned it. The industry honestly hates tournament players right now. They hate the entitlement issues most of them have.

So now, again like Dave Painter said, it come down to value!!! And that is how the industry is looking at it. value, value, value... You need to create a solid foundation to have any value. You need influence, a business connections, a relationship with others, etc. There is so much that goes into true paintball sponsorship now and it is back to the days where you truly have to earn it.

Again, this is coming from the paintball industry side... I know there are people who know a rich person that may throw money their way, and those other special circumstances.

The good thing is, there will be more of the player that truly loves to play than of those players that are doing it because they are getting something for free.... Thats a plus... Don't get me wrong, I do want the free stuff too... But now I have to earn it again.

Archie
EWMpaintball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2010, 12:21 AM #18
rOcKiNtHeDm5*la*
 
 
rOcKiNtHeDm5*la*'s Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
 has been a member for 10 years
rOcKiNtHeDm5*la* owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
rOcKiNtHeDm5*la* supports Team VICIOUS
good post dave and archie.

Value is key here. Its not all about putting logos on jerseys for sponsorship credits in return. Reffing, and promotion are the new possibilities for teams
__________________
G$
SHAKEDOWN - NEPL Amateur

http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.p...4#post15332664
My feedback -------- 0 negative
rOcKiNtHeDm5*la* is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2010, 10:44 AM #19
J. Stein
 
J. Stein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
J. Stein is a Supporting Member
J. Stein is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
J. Stein plays in the PSP
J. Stein donated to help Peyton Trent
Quote:
Originally Posted by pablo1756 View Post
I would love to see the figure/amount of pro's paying out of their own pockets. Those players would gain a lot more respect in my eyes, cause they would be doing it for the love of the game, the right reasons, and not personal gain. 8 pro teams, how many on a roster (max) ? I wonder if Jeff or even propaintball.com could get a figure of how many pro players are paying out of their own pockets this season.
Jeff: 10 pro teams (in the PSP) times 10 players per roster = 100 pro players this year.

If I had to guess, I would say that players on Red Legion, Dynasty, Impact, Infamous, Ironmen, Damage and X-Factor are not paying for anything and you can probably add Vicious and XSV to that list. I think I’ve read somewhere that players on Aftershock pay some costs out of pocket.

The picture changes a little for the USPL, I think. I have heard that Explicit and Mutiny players pay out of pocket and that Elevation and United players did last year.

Quote:
Originally Posted by cronpaintball2007 View Post
Jeff let me know if this is inappropriate, I'm not trying to high jack your thread.
Jeff: Not at all. Anything that adds to the collective experience and helps inform the great unwashed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rjutras15 View Post
I have no idea, but I would think that there would be more included in a sponsership at the pro level than free guns. I would think that the gun company would be giving cash or paying for other expenses as well. The value of a pro team or a team such as the Hurricanes shooting a particular gun is worth a lot more than what the company pays for a few guns.
Jeff: Cash or cash equivalent (meaning gear that can be sold and the money used to cover expenses). More the later than the former, for tax reasons.

Quote:
Originally Posted by jmac3 View Post
I don't think teams like Ironmen and All Americans(before their death) actually payed for anything.
Other teams I am sure do(I know you have stated that you have spent a lot).
I still see teams working for their "sponsorship", and in the end I think there has to be a Jeff Stein with "mad scrilla" to keep the team running.
Jeff: So, first off, I don’t have “mad scrilla” (although I remember the comment that you are quoting. It was a joke. If I knew how to insert the spinning purple face thingy, I would have). But, more importantly, I think you bring up an interesting point, and one that obfuscates the question here. Sponsorship can come in many forms and, in paintball, lots of teams survive because of a rich benefactor. Which isn’t really sponsorship. At least not the sponsorship I meant when starting this thread. BUT, if you have that kind, you likely don’t need any other.
__________________
Warzone Paintball & Airsoft
1-401-228-6366

Warzone Facebook
www.warzoneri.com

RIP Ronnie
J. Stein is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2010, 12:59 PM #20
EWMpaintball
Identity Paintball
 
EWMpaintball's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: MA
EWMpaintball is for the Gunfight
EWMpaintball is for the Gunfight
EWMpaintball plays in the APPA D3 division
[quote=J. Stein;65346948]Jeff: 10 pro teams (in the PSP) times 10 players per roster = 100 pro players this year.

If I had to guess, I would say that players on Red Legion, Dynasty, Impact, Infamous, Ironmen, Damage and X-Factor are not paying for anything and you can probably add Vicious and XSV to that list. I think I’ve read somewhere that players on Aftershock pay some costs out of pocket.

Jeff,

I do know at least one or two of those teams you have mentioned that do pay full wholesale for their practice paint. Not sure if the team is eating that cost, or if the players are putting into the kitty.

Archie
EWMpaintball is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-10-2010, 01:07 PM #21
J. Stein
 
J. Stein's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
J. Stein is a Supporting Member
J. Stein is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
J. Stein plays in the PSP
J. Stein donated to help Peyton Trent
Well, like I said, I am talking about PLAYERS paying.
__________________
Warzone Paintball & Airsoft
1-401-228-6366

Warzone Facebook
www.warzoneri.com

RIP Ronnie
J. Stein is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump