Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

View Poll Results: Do you agree or disagree or other?
Agree 8 26.67%
Disagree 14 46.67%
Abstain 8 26.67%
Voters: 30. You may not vote on this poll

Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 02-15-2010, 01:20 PM #1
markcheb
surrender...don't move
 
markcheb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: across the Jordan river
Belief

I was recently presented with this, and asked whether I agreed with it or disagreed with it. I admit I struggled to answer it.

"It is wrong always, everywhere, and for anyone, to believe anything upon insufficient evidence." The Ethics of Belief (1879) W.K. Clifford

What say you? Agree or disagree. Why?

*If this has been posted before I apologize.
__________________
Which thief ~~ are you?
ChristKrew #185
Anointing foreheads with the paintball for a while now.
Where's God? - Read Luke 15:11-32

Last edited by markcheb : 02-15-2010 at 01:22 PM.
markcheb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old Sponsored Links Remove Advertisement
Advertisement
Old 02-15-2010, 01:31 PM #2
Laureate
strength beyond strength
 
Laureate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by markcheb View Post
I was recently presented with this, and asked whether I agreed with it or disagreed with it. I admit I struggled to answer it.

"It is wrong always, everywhere, and for anyone, to believe anything upon insufficient evidence." The Ethics of Belief (1879) W.K. Clifford

What say you? Agree or disagree. Why?

*If this has been posted before I apologize.
That's dumb. We are constantly acting on probability.
__________________
ST:F - Playin with the boys
Laureate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2010, 02:01 PM #3
Gisgo09
vGisgo
 
Gisgo09's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Livonia, MI
That depends on the definition of sufficient evidence for each situation.
__________________
Assumption is the mother of all **** ups.
"Thats a lot of Romans over there." "Yes but not one of them is Gisgo." Hannibal Barca and general Gisgo before the battle of Cannae in 216 BC.

http://www.lurkerpb.com/
Gisgo09 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2010, 02:26 PM #4
Crede777
Resident Agnostic
 
Crede777's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Crede777 owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
If we truly operated that way, we'd honestly get nothing done because we'd be stuck deliberating about it.
__________________
"We Fight! "We March!"
ST: P Conspiracy - It's what's for dinner
ST:R/P I ain't come from no fish!
Derr: Whether or not you believe the universe is here for a reason is patently irrelevant to whether or not the universe cares.
XBL = On3ManRi0t

Breakout Photos
Crede777 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2010, 04:15 PM #5
Laureate
strength beyond strength
 
Laureate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Markcheb, don't tell me this thread is going to be used as to show how we believe things in our normal lives so we should believe in god.
__________________
ST:F - Playin with the boys
Laureate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2010, 04:55 PM #6
ISmokeIce
Postmodern Sophist
 
ISmokeIce's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2006
Location: Florida
Quote:
Originally Posted by markcheb View Post

"It is wrong always, everywhere, and for anyone, to act upon anything with insufficient belief." The Ethics of ISmokeIce
.
__________________
"No passion is stronger in the breast of man than the desire to make others believe as he believes...It is not the love of truth, but desire to prevail that sets quarter against quarter and makes parish desire the downfall of parish. Each seeks peace of mind and subserviency rather than the triumph of truth and exaltation of virtue-- But these moralities belong, and should be left to the historian, since they are as dull as ditch water" - Orlando: A Biography
ISmokeIce is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2010, 07:06 PM #7
GFX260
Jesse Day
 
GFX260's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: Cartersville, Ga
GFX260 supports Team VICIOUS
GFX260 is for the Gunfight
Believe what you will, just don't tell me you know something that has little to no evidence.

ex. "I know God will take care of me"
GFX260 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-15-2010, 09:52 PM #8
Aaron5604
Nothing is what it seems
 
Aaron5604's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Oklahoma
Quote:
Originally Posted by markcheb View Post
I was recently presented with this, and asked whether I agreed with it or disagreed with it. I admit I struggled to answer it.

"It is wrong always, everywhere, and for anyone, to believe anything upon insufficient evidence." The Ethics of Belief (1879) W.K. Clifford

What say you? Agree or disagree. Why?
W/ that quote, I believe, I am inclined to agree...

If we're indeed, "insufficient" we're deemed as none other than lacking as an individual. Therefore, if we lack the absolute necessities, we probably then lack the probable response all in-turn...

It's so wise IMO to observe all the facts of life equally to the best of our innate abilities, before jumping to any sort of conclusion. To try and justify any alternative method as a means to solving an unknown, well then... IMO is just blind ignorance.
__________________
"Seeing Is Believing" and Ignorance is DEFINITELY bliss.

JL Audio - 1000/1 Amp + 3 10W3V3 Subs (Enclosed) + Focal Access 130A1 Comps. for sale. PM me for details.

Last edited by Aaron5604 : 02-15-2010 at 09:54 PM.
Aaron5604 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2010, 08:18 PM #9
calebh
 
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: new orleans
 has been a member for 10 years
i suppose so long as the relativity of "insufficient" is acknowledged, i can agree.
__________________
Tulane University Paintball
calebh is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-16-2010, 09:42 PM #10
hsilman
Disgustipated
 
hsilman's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: The Big Apple
I don't agree with sufficient cause being necessary for anything, without sufficient being defined into semantic oblivion. So I'd have to disagree. Of course, I also don't think we simply accept things for no reason, just some reasons are considered better than others and the reasons for such a decision are effectively infinite.
__________________
This is necessary. Life feeds on life
feeds on life
feeds on life
hsilman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-19-2010, 09:42 AM #11
markcheb
surrender...don't move
 
markcheb's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: across the Jordan river
Quote:
Originally Posted by Laureate View Post
Markcheb, don't tell me this thread is going to be used as to show how we believe things in our normal lives so we should believe in god.
Ok I won't tell you.

I wouldn't have told you that anyways.

You should believe in God because He is, not because I say you should.

Anyways no, that isn't the purpose of this thread.
__________________
Which thief ~~ are you?
ChristKrew #185
Anointing foreheads with the paintball for a while now.
Where's God? - Read Luke 15:11-32
markcheb is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-24-2010, 11:48 AM #12
Kite09
Youngstown Gambit
 
Kite09's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: 330
Kite09 owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
Kite09 owns a Planet Eclipse Ego
But, believing without proof is faith. And people say that faith makes them right. And faith can be a dangerous thing. If i believe my faith is right no matter how radical than I am right. Terrorists believed their faith told them to blow up the world trade center and kill infidels. Does that make them right? Faith tells a Christian that Jesus died for their sins. Does that make them right? Faith can be dangerous, so make sure you check your facts so you can BELIEVE.
Kite09 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 02-28-2010, 11:09 PM #13
Tuff
Supports 2nd Amendment
 
Tuff's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: NH
Tuff is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
There should be some type of evidence for a belief, but not mandatory I suppose. Scientific beliefs, need proof. Religion is a faith thing.

I see no evidence for Noah's Ark. In fact, the evidence would indicate it never happened. An omnipotent being however, I am more open to. Why? Less able to be "disproved" since it cannot be.
__________________
IrishMafia
Proud American
Tuff is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2010, 06:09 PM #14
RamboPreacher
Player not a Pro.
 
RamboPreacher's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Central Iowa
RamboPreacher is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
what is insufficient evidence. I have a particular worldview, therfor, my evidences are "weighted" differently than someone else. what I consider to be overwhelming evidence, another may say is insufficient.
__________________
Brent "RamboPreacher" Hoefling
Founder of the CPPA - Christian Paintball Players Association
Member of: Christ Krew #82

"I believe, in order to understand" or "I understand in order to believe": Augustine/Anselm (paraphrase)
"Science, and especially physics is not about 'truths' - It's about forming beliefs that are less false"; Dr. S. James Gates, Jr.
RamboPreacher is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2010, 06:19 PM #15
Laureate
strength beyond strength
 
Laureate's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Quote:
Originally Posted by RamboPreacher View Post
what is insufficient evidence. I have a particular worldview, therfor, my evidences are "weighted" differently than someone else. what I consider to be overwhelming evidence, another may say is insufficient.
What you are referring to is what I call a "frame of reality." All frames of reality are built on emotions and the needs of the person who holds that frame. Everyone has a frame of reality but ideally you should have none. Like the Buddhist teaches, you should see things for what they are (AKA eliminating your frame of reality). Hopefully philosophy teaches you to reduce the size of your frame or atleast become of aware of its boundaries.

Evidence has nothing to do with frames. If you are talking about evidence given in a certain frame, than that isn't evidence. It is merely a pillar in your frame.
__________________
ST:F - Playin with the boys
Laureate is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2010, 06:35 PM #16
MVPaintballer
Mega Flagellator
 
MVPaintballer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: New Hope, PA
Annual Supporting Member
MVPaintballer is a Mega Moderator
MVPaintballer is a Supporting Member
MVPaintballer donated to help Peyton Trent
MVPaintballer supports Bob Gurnsey
MVPaintballer posts videos on PbNation
MVPaintballer supports our troops
I chose disagree, but the statement is too vague.

What defines sufficient evidence?

I believe that the evidence for evolution is sufficient to believe the theory is accurate. Many people believe the evidence is not sufficient.

Also, let's not muddy up the quote. It's "sufficient evidence", no where does it say "proof".
__________________
If you don't have anything nice to say, say it on the internet.
MVPaintballer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-08-2010, 11:11 PM #17
Aaron5604
Nothing is what it seems
 
Aaron5604's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Oklahoma
Quote:
Originally Posted by MVPaintballer View Post
What defines sufficient evidence?
Required (necessary) elements to function; No more, no less...

*** Edit ***

Not preaching, but that's certainly how I interpret the word(s).
__________________
"Seeing Is Believing" and Ignorance is DEFINITELY bliss.

JL Audio - 1000/1 Amp + 3 10W3V3 Subs (Enclosed) + Focal Access 130A1 Comps. for sale. PM me for details.

Last edited by Aaron5604 : 03-09-2010 at 01:34 AM.
Aaron5604 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2010, 01:40 AM #18
madgoat
Troll_Extraordinaire
 
madgoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Homewood, IL
madgoat has achieved Level 3 in PbNation Pursuit
statement is too vague for me.
1)"wrong" in what sense
2)what would sufficient evidence be?
__________________
Honey Badger University Professor of Women Studies, Dean of Student Affairs
madgoat is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2010, 11:37 AM #19
MVPaintballer
Mega Flagellator
 
MVPaintballer's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2021
Location: New Hope, PA
Annual Supporting Member
MVPaintballer is a Mega Moderator
MVPaintballer is a Supporting Member
MVPaintballer donated to help Peyton Trent
MVPaintballer supports Bob Gurnsey
MVPaintballer posts videos on PbNation
MVPaintballer supports our troops
Quote:
Originally Posted by Aaron5604 View Post
Required (necessary) elements to function; No more, no less...

*** Edit ***

Not preaching, but that's certainly how I interpret the word(s).
That wasn't really my point. If I pulled in a gas station and I asked the attendant "Please fill my tank to an acceptable level?", there is no real way of knowing how much gas he'll put in.

The point is, "sufficient" changes depending on who is setting the limits. And what is sufficient to one may not be to another.
__________________
If you don't have anything nice to say, say it on the internet.
MVPaintballer is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2010, 12:54 PM #20
Aaron5604
Nothing is what it seems
 
Aaron5604's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Oklahoma
Quote:
Originally Posted by MVPaintballer View Post
That wasn't really my point. If I pulled in a gas station and I asked the attendant "Please fill my tank to an acceptable level?", there is no real way of knowing how much gas he'll put in.
The gas attendant would need to ask: To what end? Meaning, how many miles must you go from this station? What's your fuel economy like; how many mpg is your tank currently putting out?

Otherwise, I agree as well. If we cease to ignore the details than how can anyone strive to give any accurate representation in life?

Example:

From my door step every day, it takes me 15.5 miles to work going one way. So, for fuel costing $2.489 a gal. from QT @ 18 mpg to get down and back to work I would require a min. of 1.724 gal. to be "sufficient" (adequate) to and from. Any less, and I would probably be "insufficient." Anymore, and it's just icing on the cake, so to speak -- abundant to my needs, which I suppose would be more accurately classified as an unnecessary desire.

I realize the quote is vague, but I believe that was the intent. It's neither religious nor purely physical, but merely left open for everyone and anyone to apply by having left virtually zero limitations to begin; no set parameters, standards/laws/restrictions in other words.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MVPaintballer View Post
The point is, "sufficient" changes depending on who is setting the limits. And what is sufficient to one may not be to another.
So than, would you be suggesting that someone w/ the same make/model of my vehicle going the same distance, same route... same everything would be working under different laws, different sets of data? Is that, really what you believe?
__________________
"Seeing Is Believing" and Ignorance is DEFINITELY bliss.

JL Audio - 1000/1 Amp + 3 10W3V3 Subs (Enclosed) + Focal Access 130A1 Comps. for sale. PM me for details.

Last edited by Aaron5604 : 03-09-2010 at 12:57 PM.
Aaron5604 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-09-2010, 01:14 PM #21
madgoat
Troll_Extraordinaire
 
madgoat's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: Homewood, IL
madgoat has achieved Level 3 in PbNation Pursuit
The problem is that since the quote relies heavily on the interpretation of the reader then any poll taken from the quote has little value at best.
__________________
Honey Badger University Professor of Women Studies, Dean of Student Affairs
madgoat is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools

Posting Rules
Forum Jump