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Old 02-28-2010, 01:08 AM #1
Drix
 
 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Massachusetts
What do you like to see in scenarios?

So, I was given the oppertunity to create my own scenario game at a local paintball field this summer. I'm really excited as I think it could be great, especially since, NE doesn't have any amazing scenario games. But I was wondering- What are peoples favorite events and objectives? What do people hate? I know personally I hate not playing for a cause and was thinking that there should be a reserve prize table *ONLY* for the winning team. I also hate respawns, but maybe someone has come across a fantastic respawning scenario. What would you do if you were given the chance?
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Old 02-28-2010, 05:59 PM #2
Boom Master
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Like asking a fisherman which lure is best. You will get as many answers as people you talk too. So I'll start...

First, I played scenario 15+ years. Experienced players like the more complex games. Simultaneous missions at different areas of the field at the same time.

Multi point mission meaning that one mission location can have more than one objective worth points. For example the downed pilot mission. Points to rescue or capture/kill the pilot. Points to retrieve the 'classified documents' at the crash scene. Points to control the crash sight long enough so the aircraft's 'classified' hardware can be salvaged or destroyed. Makes for a good firefight where players and squad commanders have to think and act FAST on the fly.

But you need quite a few experienced players to be able to do that. Being a new game, you probably won't have that many players much less experienced players... But don't go to the other extreme.

That would be to send everybody to the same place on the field to play 'capture the flag'. They can pay a LOT less money and do that all day long playing rec ball, go home, take a shower, and spend that money they saved on their girlfriend..

Tanks, bazookas, helicopters, satchel charges, downed pilots, props, space based partical weapons, tactical nukes, bioweapons are things that give paintball players a unique paintball experience they can't get playing rec ball.

You CAN send a mission for each side to different places NEAR each other so they will very likely meet each other or cross paths along the way. To engage or not to engage - that is the question.

Night games can have identical mission locations so the CAN find each other in the dark.. Lots of deep penetrations into enemy territory keeps players moving around in the dark..

Destroy and Attack Missions are always popular.

Attack means break a paintball on the objective bunker (often enemy HQ) A kid with a pump and ghille suit can complete this. Of course, a Nerf Rocket, grenade, flamethrower, or satchel charge would count as an attack as well.

Destroy is where the RPGs, tanks, satchel bombers, attack helicopters, etc have their FUN. Grunts have to protect and get the demolition guy into position to destroy the bunker, bridge, HQ, etc. or just toss a grenade or two or three to get it done.

Retrieve a Prop mission. Again place the props where the guys going for it will cross paths. Any prop will do. Smoke grenades can be bioweapons. CDs are computer software that Programs "the Space Based Particle Weapon".

Make the props USEFUL and worth fighting for. Not just for the points for getting them. Even if you don't complete the mission in time, you have something you can USE.

Time limited missions have their purpose but Unlimited or extended time missions are useful. Standing order to capture or destroy enemy HQ for points. Kill a tank for points.

Double points for tank kills during even numbered hours. Use your imagination.

Money missions can be ongoing. Control the Refinery or Cocaine Plant. Every 15 minutes completed is $20,000 to be used to buy fuel for the helicopters, extra satchel charges, smoke, etc. Sherwood has a big castle with a big bell in the tower. Rings every 15 minutes to remind everyone on the field that SOMEBODY is making money. Easy to hold, hard to take. Hotly contested all weekend. We couldn't take it so I got orders to destroy it with my tank. Took 19 Nerf hits to level it. We were able to keep their engineers from rebuilding it. But we couldn't rebuild it either. No points but a tactical Stalemate. Nobody had money to buy things.

Use money to build a second insertion point/hospital if you think you can HOLD it and keep it from being destroyed. Huge advantage only having to go back halfway to insert...

Used a POLE with a FLAG on it as a mobile insertion point. Very interesting. Problem one was how to let OUR guys know where it is. Problem TWO is had to be manned with a Medic. If he got killed it could not be used or moved. In addition, it could be captured by the other team's Medics. You tend to want to get it close to the firefight but that is also how you get it captured... Still, if it gets too hot, pick up the flag and run off. This would be good for a low number of players game. Saves a lot of walking and fatigue.

Pro and Con for low player numbers is automatic insertions. Just tag up and go. No waiting. Keeps players in the game and shooting. Impairs players from squading up and getting organized.. Leave it up to the generals to handle it for better or for worse but tell them to think about how they want to handle it.

Managing player numbers. Rain in the forecast can kill attendance. You have to be prepared to play with low numbers. Perfect weather will give higher numbers. You have to plan contingencies for what kind and how many missions of what type will be run depending on attendance.

You will assign an even number of players to each side. But a game can get very one sided for one reason or another. You don't want a ROUT. Being on the winning side is alway a good thing. A good fight is where everybody has fun and a narrow victory is so much sweeter... Again you have to have contingencies to get one side back into the fight and having fun. Still, you have to be careful not to affect the outcome of the game. You can't be perceived to be manipulating or favoring one side or the other. You certainly can't change the rules of the game on the fly.

Handing out "satchel charges" like candy is one way. Very effective at blowing up the enemy line in a fire fight. A 100 foot kill radius will put a pretty big hole in the enemy's line. They are very effective a containing aggressive armor. "Remote Detonated" satchels require placement and then the demo player hollars "BOOM!" when they want to set it off. Very useful to kill armor-IED. Very useful for when your objective is being overrun. Plant the satchel in the base and move the demo player out into cover. If over run, just wait until your team is ready to counter attack and just hollar boom and take it back. It is destroyed but if the mission was take and hold, it at least guarentees a draw on the points count. If they can rebuild it with an engineer and occupy it before the deadline, they might win the mission afterall. One of the ways to TAKE a bunker FULL of defenders is to destroy it. Occupy the perimeter around it and have your engineer rebuild it. Then occupy it in force and maintain the perimeter defenses as well.

Very useful if you can get it to enemy HQ and blow it up. Points for general kills plus you bust missions for that side because they can't get new missions until it is rebuilt, radio operator re inserts, etc. Denies the other side an opportunity to make points. A spy can create havoc. Especially with "Radio Remote Detonated" Satchel charges. Spy has com to his general. Calls when the charge is in place. General contacts the HQ ref to contact the enemy HQ ref. 3 minutes after the insertion time, blow the base and their whole insertion with it. General tells the ref 'now' who tells the other HQ ref 'now' and he hollars "Boom! You are all dead". If you have the communications the spy could call the shot through the general.

The difference is the kill radius of a satchel charge is what is written on the tag. Change them at will to be bigger and better to get the other side back into the fight. Once they do, back off or stop handing out the charges... Send some small ones to the other side. They probably won't notice the number or size difference. Continencys.

So many missions and especially their location on the field from the insertion point or HQ is critical and field specific. So a suggestion.

During REC BALL, do mini-missions 15-30 minutes simular to the length of rec games. Try out some of the missions you want to use. See if the mission instructions are clear or confusing. See the timing of the mad rush to the objective. Do you want to get there at the same time. One occupy first and the other attack shortly thereafter. Try destroy missions. If you have scenario players with bazookas and tanks, get them in play so your local players will see what it is all about and learn a little about interacting with them. See if they LIKE the mission or if it was a bust. Tweak it and try again. Change sides and go again. Do the satchel charges and retrieve the prop missions. Beside tuning your field to the game, Besides training your local players, you are MARKETING the game to your local players and everyone ELSE they talk to at school... Enough for now.
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Old 03-04-2010, 07:47 PM #3
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^^^ Very detailed, I dig it and agree with most of it, especially the part about complex missions. Personally my favorite missions have been ones with multiple things going on at once. Raiding a supply dump while under enemy fire while stringing up your comm line and trying to take down the enemy's comm line. Holding a central tower, your own base, and searching for props in the field. Those were just the last scenario I played.

Another thing that makes or breaks the scenario is the quality of play. People cheating, overshooting, shooting hot, or just being jack***es can ruin a scenario for everyone involved. While you can't catch everyone, having good refs spread out over the field and coming down hard on the players that give our sport a bad name is a great way to get the good players to keep coming back.
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Old 03-05-2010, 11:34 PM #4
Drix
 
 
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I like the mobile spawn point.... And thanks for the info, even gotten a few pm's which have been stellar ideas.

So, what do people hate about big games? Up here in NE we don't get alot of scenarios but everyone's got a biggame, which seems to be a big cheating paintgrinder. Has anyone come across better?
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Old 03-06-2010, 07:19 AM #5
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Sounds like a LOT of inexperienced, mostly rec players, that haven't figured out people can't have FUN at a scenario game unless the Honor system works and people call themselves out. They have to be TRAINED by seeing the example by the other, more experienced players.

Mark at Smakzone developed an excellent system for curbing wiping and other blatent cheating. Trains NEWBIES real quick about how to play at his field.

He uses REFs In Play. (RIPs). They are his LOCAL players and regulars that he KNOWs are honorable players. The are given a FREE admission to the game. Maybe other perks. They have a FULL SET of Ref Credentials around their neck and stuck in their breast pocket. They are registered players and equally assigned to each team. For a 300 player game, he has maybe 30 RIPs in ADDITION to the regular game refs.

They are essentially UNDERCOVER Refs. They see something, they call it and punch their card. The guy that shot YOU could be a ref. Better not ignore the hit and God Forbid if he sees you WIPE It. The guy on your team NEXT to you could be a ref. Better ask for a paintcheck and call the hits.

The Game Briefing makes a BIG DEAL about playing honorably, paint checks, wiping, cheating etc that WILL NOT BE TOLERATED at his field. Makes a BIG DEAL about the RIPs. Not only do they punch cards but serious violators are walked off the playing field and are given a TIME OUT of the game for an hour or so to THINK about whether or not they want to be banned from his field for a period of time if not permanently.

The first couple of hours of the game, you SEE those RIPs working HARD. Calling people out, showing their cards, paint checking players on both sides, walking players off the field for a time out and generally being EXTREMELY visible on the field of play.

Once the players SEE that Mark and his ROPs are SERIOUS about playing honorably, everyone GETS the MESSAGE, settles down, and plays like they should. By the end of he weekend, the Newbies and new visitors to his field realize the value of everyone playing honorably. It makes for a FUN, CLEAN, Hard fought game and a LOT of fun.

Might try that to teach rec players how to play scenario games.

Big Games are mostly capture the flag on a big field. Don't need a General to tell everyone which base they are going to fight over next. Just a good PA system. No tactics required, No thinking, No finesse, No tanks, No bazookas, no special weaponry. No need for field communications. Just speedball on a big field. Too simple for REAL scenario players.

Not unusal for the first mission or two to be a simple capture the flag mission for both sides. Give the Newbies time to figure out who the officers are, that there IS a command structure, how to work in a squad under orders, that we use tactics and not brute force. etc. Then they wind up on more interesting and complex missions.

"You want ME to draw fire from that tank!?????"
"Yup,Our Bazooka guy needs time for a good kill shot. Just a couple of seconds. Thats an order private. Go!"
"But I might get killed."
"Yup, you're expendable. Our orders are to stop their tanks. We play for points. Body count doesn't matter. You will die for points over and over all weekend long."
"But I don't want to get killed."
"This isn't rec ball. You will be right back into the game. If you don't get killed regularly, you aren't playing aggressively enough to be a scenario player. It is a TEAM sport and you Privates need to know is that you need to follow orders or Die TRYING."
"But...."
"Go do your Duty Private!"

Last edited by Boom Master : 03-06-2010 at 07:30 AM.
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Old 03-24-2010, 09:28 PM #6
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This is a great Thread!

I did my first Scenario last week and it was alot harder then I thought.
It was posted as both a Big Game and a scenario. The Big Game aspect took over, even though I was gunning for it to be a full Scenario.
90% of the players had fun ,but didn't know what the Hell was going on.
As I was explaining the missions alot of players would shout "Hey, I just wanna shoot $#!&!"
All in all,it turned into a moderately successful Big Game with a lot of fancy props.
The problem was that I wasted alot of time making functioning props that were reduced to window dressing. This was mostly my fault since I was expecting everyone to have my same "gamer" mentality.
It's hard to sell Scenario play to players showing up for a Big Game.
Another problem that I had was everyone was yelling at me over things I had no control over. Like players taking too long to get paint and air.
In the future I'd like to run it as a full scenario.
I think my game would have worked best with a maximum 30 players utilizing 2 fields at a time (if you have to share the fields with private groups).
Players and refs should be given written descriptions for each scenario.I had these on a disc to be printed out, but several things changed . The number of players and full field availabilty were the biggest factor.
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Old 03-25-2010, 06:25 PM #7
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Got to offer something for everyone. Nice to have some veteran local players that play the same side year after year. They can organized and bring the less experienced players along.

I was at a 600 player game that had a self contained intelligence and counter intelligence team whose SOLE responsibility was to figure out what the other team was doing and BUST their missions. The game win is determined by the final score. You can EARN points or you can COST the other team points.

Total unit was maybe 30 players. 20 were a DEATH SQUAD whose job was to intercept and disrupt enemy missions. The young guns that want to run and gun and the guys that just want to shoot @#$^&!

The others were deployed in ghillie and camo with LOTS of radio communications and just reported troop movements and direction out of enemy HQ. Some didn't even carry markers. 12 year olds including girls...

Grandpa and his helper got all the incoming com and maintained a map with enemy troop concentrations on it for the General and field Commanders to use to plan and deploy missions. His assistant did out going com to the Death Squads and routed them to intecept the mission.

During the night game, they managed to plant a RADIO BUG just out side the wall of enemy HQ and Sunday they KNEW where every mission was going before the squad was assigned to do it. Well, those guys that just wanted to shoot ^%$#@! and didn't want to do missions was put on the DEATH SQUAD and they ran them to death. They saw LOTS of action but when they wanted a rest, they wanted to try a mission.

The really NEAT part was that only a FEW people knew this group existed. I happened to be the XO for the game and was sworn to secrecy. Not even the Producer or Field owner knew of this group. The other side had NO CLUE why their missions were being shot up all weekend long, year after year...

For one on a smaller field like yours, Moon Shine Run was a hoot. Nothing fancy or complex. No tanks or bazookas but you COULD if you had them.

The STORE was mid field. Both sides fought for control of the real estate surrounding the Store. They played for PLAY money instead of points.

You had to bring your 1 gallon jugs of 'Moonshine' there to sell them and buy corn, sugar and even parts to make extra stills with and double your production and revenue. You took the extra money back to Grandpa McCoy or Hatfield to keep. A HUGE firefight all day long. Attack, counter attack, pushing the firing line back and forth to get your player in and out of the store alive.

But the kid with the pump gun could sneak around and break a ball on the still and it would blow up and kill everyone within 50 feet. If that included Grandpa, he had to drop his cash bag like any other prop and go to the Insertion. That kid could run in, grab the bag, and split and literally STEAL the game... If one side could over run the HQ, same thing. That pretty much forced the OTHER side to try to come to your HQ and take it back. No complex missions but it was a HOOT and sold a LOT of paint. Played with as few as 40 players, and as much as 125. Field was 150 yards wide x 300 yard long. 2-3 combined rec fields. It was a tag up and go automatic insertion.

Another easy to run game was ALIEN vs MARINES. Lots of fighting and shooting but quickly taught players of the importance of command and control, team work, and taking initiative. It is a PURE TACTICAL GAME. No Missions. You could call it a BIG Game. Field was squarish. Maybe 300 yards by 400 yards.

There were 8 or so 'Nests'/bunkers with flags to raise to your teams colors. Distributed evenly all over the field. Capture the Flag is REAL familiar to rec players so they think they know what to do. One volunteer/ref would walk the same route over and over to each of those bases and touch the flag pole. Then write down which flag was up and scored the points.

So the game came down to how many flags you could keep up with YOUR color. To win the game you only needed 51% at the end of the day. Try had to take and HOLD the real estate with more than half the bunkers in it.

Which real estate and which bunker changed by the minute.

Sound easy. It 'taint. Now both sides had 'tag up and go' automatic insertions. So the FARTHER distance you pushed down the field, the Farther your dead players had to walk/run to re insert while the enemy players had LESS distance to walk to re insert. So it was REALLY hard to push down the field and HOLD those flags until the scorer walks buy.

TIMING was everything. The flag scorer could be by in a minute or 10 minutes. If your guys are outnumbered 3 to 1 deep into enemy territory, you would prefer to hold for one minute and not 10.

So one strategy was to just have your team run ahead of the scorer and take the next flag on his route. That is pretty much impossible for BOTH teams to do at the same time.. But maybe a squad could TRY.. Or one kid in a ghille suit sneaking around and turning flags.

What they generally did was to set up a firing line across the field and try to keep the other side from breaking through or pushing back your line to take a flagged bunker. Of course, your side is trying to push your line down to include one more flag. So you mass forces in one place and PUSH. If you can break their line. You can turn one or TWO or THREE flags if there are very few players to run into behind that line. Holding them is the hard part. So very quickly it become a Tactical game. Your mission is to attack, hold and score the right bunker for the right amount of time while HOLDING the rest of the field.

Now you don't have to OCCUPY the flag base. Just raise the flag. So if your line has not been broken, you can ASSUME all the flags behind you are YOUR COLOR. Just push the line down the field to include that extra bunker or two. True unless your last push went right by that kid in the ghille suit hiding in the brush who sneaks up to the one in the back corner and turns the flag and then go hides. He can keep turning that flag when you don't know it and WIN the game. Win a flag here, lose a flag there and they all add up. Your commanders have to be on their toes in a very dynamic environment. Generals were periodically advised of the current score so they could have a CLUE if things aren't going like he thought they were.

Last edited by Boom Master : 03-25-2010 at 06:33 PM.
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Old 03-25-2010, 09:17 PM #8
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I like to see fire,explosions, and overall destruction. throw in some tanks and heavy weapons for good measure
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Old 03-26-2010, 09:11 PM #9
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personaly i just like to see the face of the person i just hit makes me feel good inside
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Old 03-27-2010, 06:11 PM #10
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military missions are fun=)
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Old 04-12-2010, 10:27 PM #11
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Old 04-23-2010, 05:57 PM #12
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You know what I dont play often, but when I play I like to play woods ball or scenario's, I dont like speedballers who think that they are the best paintballers out there and throw a sh:t load of paint just to hit 1 person who might be hiding to good for them to hit with 1 shot. Ya know what I mean?
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Old 04-24-2010, 09:29 AM #13
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I'd like to see a producer work very closely with a special effects company. When I "blow" up a building, I'd like to see something for it. when "artillery" barrages an area, I'd like to see dirt in the air.

I saw this once, and would love to see it more often. Insertions with real helicopters. How about a series of airborne training classes prior to an event where the players tandem jump with a certified skydiver?

More games at MOUT facilities. Or more fields set up like MOUT facilities. How many teams and squads practice clearing a room and storming a building, yet how many opportunities do we really have to do that? Has anybody reading this thread been to West Point? How kick *** would it be to have that kind of event in more locations? Come on, a cadet with a real Squad Automatic Weapon firing blanks off right next to you on the front line with artillery sims blasting off all over the place? Hell yeah I'd love to see that kind of event all over the place, not just in NY. Not to mention the number of refs and staff on hand for that event. That would be a great model to start from.

more tank friendly fields that use nerf rockets.
a standardized set of tank rules.

I'm a big fan of night paintball also. I'd like to see glow in the dark paint make a come back.
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Old 04-25-2010, 08:12 AM #14
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At Battlecreek they put a 30 gal STEEL Trash Can on the roof and rigged it with a black powder discharge when the guys pushed the plunger down below on the first floor. Twas Hitler's Bunker in the Battle of Berlin.

It made one heck of a BANG and all the discharge and smoke went staight up. During testing, they got a little carried away with the size of the charge and the sherrif came by and told them they were making the neighbors nervious. Nearest neighbor is a 1/4 mile down the road.

Yes, night play is a LOT of fun if you have some experience doing it. You guys that like to drink instead of play should try it.

Usually both teams have the SAME mission mostly so they can find someone to shoot at. Take and hold this base.

The team closest to the objective gets their first so they wind up trying to HOLD it. The team farthest away winds up arriving last so they have to TAKE it and then hold it. It gets interesing when the objectives are mid field. The team that has good field communications and can get a squad organized and there first has the advantage. Good Field com is critical at night.

Then some well placed sneaky people like me have the job of penetrating into enemy territory and engaging and delaying their mission squads. It is amazing what a two minute delay can mean in terms of who's side gets there FIRST at a mid field objective. It doesn't take too many players to ambush and delay an enemy squad. Disrupt and make them paranoid. That makes them MOVE slower.

Conversely, you are well advised to MOVE QUICKLY spaced about 5 yards apart instead of creeping along. The point guy will STILL get ambushed and die gloriously in a hail of paintballs. The rest should avoid engaging and move around it to GET TO THE OBJECTIVE. Decide when you start whether or not you are going LEFT or Right around the first contact so you group doesn't get scattered. The natural tendency is to creep along and then ENGAGE. Not so for night game missions. Jog down those trails.

Sometimes you can get away with murder. Infiltrate the squad and barrel tag or shoot the squad leader with the Mission Card, If he doesn't hand it off to someone, the mission is busted. If you can barrel tag him and say "search the body" he HAS to give YOU the mission card.

I have infiltrated an enemy squad and the mission was to take and hold the Chemical Factory base. It is EASY to do. Instead of ambushing them, just step in behind the last guy and walk with them. We got their and I volunteered to be IN the base while the rest of the team set up a defensive perimeter around it. 'my gun was acting up' They did a good job keeping our team from taking the objective. I even fired at my own guys to make it look good. Had radioed my general and told HIM to inform the Mission Leader that he should be prepared to get the mission card signed by a ref even if they didn't take it.

When the mission time expired, I radioed to get the mission card signed by a ref. I called the mission ref over and told him I was an enemy player and was in fact, occupying and hold the base when the mission time elapsed. To check my colors and credentials to confirm it. Sure enough he did. I stepped out into the dark and waited. Then he told the other team that our color completed the mission. Huh? No way! They all gathered around the ref to discuss the point. I opened up on them and split back towards THEIR HQ to cause some MORE mischief.

Night games are a lot of fun.

I have run point for a squad. Our mission was to take and hold a bunker 40 yards BEHIND enemy HQ and we had to cross open field to get there with a near full moon. The only way was to SNEAK into it without being detected or engaging any one. and just hollars for the other team colors. "We need BLUE guys to go back to HQ for missions." Speak up. We don't have enough players to do missions. All you guys are in the woods or stopped playing. Come with me to our HQ NOW! Speak up Blue Team!

Sure enough they did. "How many are you?" Four! 'All you guys come with me back to HQ. We were only able to send TWO guys out on the last mission and another is due in 5 minutes." "OK" And they DID! They walked me right into enemy HQ and gave the correct password for me!

"Here are the guys I rounded up for the next mission." Huh? OK.

I started messing with my marker and walked away a bit into the dark.. Watching for our guys starting cross the open area. I ripped the General and everybody standing there. I got every eye and marker near the HQ turned my direction. Just hunkered down and kept them busy. When I cut loose our guys just flat out started running across the open and ran into the objective bunker. I died gloriously in a hail storm of paintballs but we accomplished the mission.

You CAN get away with murder and the really neat part is when it DOESN'T work, you are just another dead Newbie as far as the other side is concerned. I manage to pull off about 1 out of 4 tries. That is a couple a night...
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Old 05-11-2010, 12:02 PM #15
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Hello Boom Master,
I very much like your narratives. I was recently introduced to scenario play, and paint ball, and paint ball tanks all at the same time at the April 2010 BearClaw scenario game Invasion of Sicily. Truly had the best time that weekend in a very long time, rain storms and all.

I definitely agree with a previous post about consistent Tank (and anti-tank) rules being crucial to balanced play. The team I was invited to participate with (BlackHearts) brought two AFVs, one of which I crewed on the second day. Several memorable tank on tank duels with opposing infantry sniping each other across the "no-mans-land" between us and trying not to get shot by the AFVs "machine guns" between nerf shots. Great fun. I do recall that we were defeated by infantry carried AT weapons much more often than by Tank on Tank, though we also dished out our fair share of painted carnage by off roading a deep pincer maneuver catching the OpFor assault by surprise and pretty well broke it up before bugging out to avoid re-positioning "LAW" equipped players.

As I only have this one experience so far to refer to, I may state the obvious, or otherwise make comments that the more experience players just roll their eyes over, so take it with a grain of salt.

Clear concise, conventional rules that are familiar, promote safety, and encourage fair and fun play.

Encouragement for AFVs (armored cars/tanks).

Reasonable Armor rules, if the nerf is in the air before the tank is killed, then the nerf is a valid shot, if it hits, it counts. (I bring this up as a result of one duel where both tanks fired almost simultaneously, the nerfs literally crossed in the air mid field and both hit, but only the first hit was called a kill, the other tank allow to remain in play). At least this is my opinion, if the bullet leaves the barrel while the player is "in", it just doesn't matter if the shooter is in play or not while airborn, the bullet is real, it's in the air, and it doesn't know its shooter is in or is out.

Somewhat balanced anti tank rules. You can't carry 12 laws plus your individual weapons, it's just not practical. I could envision 3, but having only ever carried one at a time, and not in actual combat I just have a hard time with a "LAW" player having a dozen nerfs. Tanks usually carry (real world) 40 plus rounds, and from what I experienced (in Paint ball tanks), you never had a chance to fire than many before a trip back to base anyway. So a modest limit on Law ammo would certainly be reasonable without adversely affecting game balance, nor discouraging LAW players. Obviously, scenario rules could accommodate high ammo availability for defensive or dug in positions, but a rolling front, blitzkrieg or armored cav recon is not going to have unlimited heavy weapon ammunition stores.

Reasonable and safe AFV rules with regards to infantry (Crunchies), nobody will have fun if somebody gets run over. The game I attended had two safety radii, 10 feet and 20 feet, for stationary and moving "tank". One disputed incident was where a crunchie... Ahem, infantryman in good camouflage laid by the side of road under some brush and tossed a satchel charge. The dispute was not the effect, but a safety concern as the person in question was in cover within 3 feet of the road, a KNOWN tank trail. Several of the tanks, including the one I was a crew-member of, were quite capable and often did go off road. Personally, I think that confining the tanks to roads, as I have heard is done at one or more fields is stupid. However, considerable caution must be exercised by EVERY player and ref, including AFV drivers a well as those adept at snoop-in and poop-in through the weeds or rules such as "tanks on dedicated trails only" will become insurance mandates, which will pretty well remove a great deal of the incentives for people to build them or bring them.

If it is not fun, it won't happen twice, if even once, so mission objectives, overall scenario objectives need to support an atmosphere of good competition, and you need to have the means at hand to influence the game in a balanced, but non-deterministic fashion.

As I am now infected with the paint ball bug, specifically the urge to build a paintball mission designed tank, I hope to interact with more of you in the near future. I also know that socoj2 is accumulating the assets to begin his PB tank within a few weeks, so there will soon be a couple of PB tanks with real tracks in production to add to the rolls.
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Old 08-03-2010, 06:54 PM #16
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i heart military missions
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Old 11-13-2010, 09:33 PM #17
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Hostage Situations that are done right...
for example... During pre-game breifing, announce the posssibility of being taken hostage if you are bunkered/ surrendered during play. if so, a ref must be present at the taking. No more than 2 hostages can be taken at any one time, and points are awarded to the captors team.
Refs take the hostages' markers ( hostages keep their vest/ gear and are led away) Refs immediately return the markers to the Commander of the hostage's team. At that point, the Commander is informed of the hostage situation and their whereabouts. Upon reaching the hostages, their markers can be returned to them so they can help fight their way to freedom. The same points the captors earned for the capture can be negated by the Rescuing team if both hostages are successfully captured and extracted within a given time. however, if the time expires, or the hostages are hit during extraction, the captor team keeps the points.
Add a twist to this, too. If the rescuing team (A) can bunker/ surrender a enemy (B) during a hostage rescue, they earn double the capture points, and keep those points regardless if that (B) hostage is then rescued.
NOTE: If the player wishes to NOT surrender his/ her marker during capture, they can keep it with them, but will not be allowed to shoot it until they are rescued.
Granted this mission does require good refs who are not called away during a hostage taking to settle a simple "paintcheck"... but if you have good teams who are experienced scenario players, it adds a good, hard earned mission to the play that requires some good teamwork and skill to pull off successfully.
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Old 11-13-2010, 10:02 PM #18
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I got that chance and im living it. A few months ago i started writing game ideas for a field i play at in the midwest called The Badlandz. a few months later they offered me a job running their scenario/Big game events. My advice to you is to be organized with your mission ideas andmake them all before the game butg dont try to follow a set mission scheduel. you will find that sometimes a mission wont fit for the way the game is going. you must always be able to change your missions or plans on a moments notice. if someone comes up with a good mission bacause it would be cool to do at that moment try it. if you are making the props people like authentic stuff or atleast good looking props. i made a tactical nuke for my game in november and posted the pic's online and people are loving it. i even made handmade replica K-Rations from world war 2 for a game. so just plan well, be ready to change, and listen to what other players have to say. good luck man.

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Old 11-14-2010, 02:51 PM #19
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Being a Tanker and an Anti Tanker I just have to chip in with my 4 bits again. Tanks, motorized or not, have a very limited life expectancy. So if you are going to allow 10 Nerfs you might as well allow 50 or 100 nerfs. A few RARE exceptions for the capabilities of the autoloaders where FIREPOWER counts...

Now tanks driving off road and the satchel charge being too close. If OFF Road means driving over terrian grass, weeds, that can conceal a ghillie suit, Absolutely NOT! I am allowed off road in my walking tank and I have LITERALLY stepped on a kid in a ghillie before I saw him. If off road means a 2" high grass field or dirt/gravel trails then OK, it is almost a road anyway.. You have to be able to SEE where you are driving.

The rules the refs have always used for the anti tank players within the boundary limit is they must be STATIONARY and off the designated tank road. If the tank drives within the boundary limit, the tank is not required to stop. Nor is the anti tank player required to move to maintain the required distance and disclose his position. The LAW player can NOT advance towards the tank either. One half step to throw a satchel is OK. Like basketball, no traveling.... That keeps everyone safe. We played like that for years...

What about guys like me that LED the evolution of the sport building autoloading cannons? 10 round limits the purpose of having that kind of firepower. Who would have built one with a 3 Nerf LAW or 10 Nerf tank limit? Nobody... How soon do you suppose there will be more than ONE commercial manufacturer of an autoloading cannon/LAW? Why buy one or make one if you can't USE it for its designed purpose? This is NOT progress guys. Not good for the Sport

The SPORT has to continue to evolve and grow to INCLUDE all the toys the military are developing.

The only time when you use a LOT of Nerfs is tank on tank engagements and objective assaults where the defenders have to be 'softened up' to take it.

You all have to realize the ONE thing that real WAR has had for over a CENTURY now, that paintball war games do not have is ARTILLERY. Those armored cannons and LAWs are the closest thing we have. An air force is another, but we do have close air support using attack helicopters. Not very common because the players WHINED about getting taken out by air support. Now there are PLENTY of LAWs to neutralize those choppers. They are cheap to put into a game. We need MORE of them. Give them something to shoot at besides tanks and bunkers. A MOVING TARGET and all the ammo and air they want to haul!

You won't use a Nerf to take out one player in a bunker unless he is a LAW player.


Why take tanks off the field to get more Nerfs when they can haul everything they need for the weekend in the tank? It doesn't make sense.

The only discussion about limited ammo I have heard is for the LAWs in response to the tanks having too LITTLE field time and not enough FUN due to the LAWs killing them too often.

At MANY games now there are many more LAWS per tank than there use to be. Back in the old days, LAWs were like cops. You could never find one when you needed them. Nowdays, the REVERSE is true. Relative cost is probably the reason.

We need more tanks preferably to balance the LAWs but in reality that probably won't happen.

The LAW players want to USE their LAWs and limiting them to three rounds at a time is pretty much ridculous. You can waste 2-3 rounds trying to get a ref to LOOK and SEE that you are killing a bunker and to go let those guys inside know they are DEAD! They don't see or hear a Nerf hit in all the confusion and noise, so they have no clue. One bunker and one tank and you have to go out of the game to get more ammo. Silly, Why bother? Why haul all that weight and gear around all day just to make extra trips back for more ammo? Surviving to shoot 10 rounds is the SKILL a LAW player has to develope to be considered "GOOD". Remember, LAWs are already limited by the AIR SUPPLY they carry. My LAW gets 9-10 rounds out of a 68x3000 air supply. Unless I was having a VERY Good day with my LAW, I was out of paint or air for my marker before I used up my LAW air or ammo.

There ARE practical limits for LAW players and I would say the range people might say is 10 Nerfs and air to shoot it. More than that you are playing with a LOT of weight than most LAW players want to haul or they don't carry a marker.

The issue and ONLY issue is how to strike a balance of power between the LAWs and armor so BOTH sides have have fun and not be in the dead zone all weekend.

Here is HOW:

Make tanks harder to kill.

TARGETS on all four sides that have to be MARKED with a Nerf hit. Small in the front, medium on the sides, and large on the back to represent the "toughness" of the armor to resist a LAW hit.

The Producer and Field owner will soon get a good idea of what shows up at his games and the relative skills of the LAW players and Tanks. If an BUNCH of extra LAWs show up, they can adjust the game BEFORE the game.

TWO marked hits to kill a tank might be one solution. Two hits on two seperate targets would make the tank a LOT tougher for one LAW player to kill. You would almost have to double team all you anti tank Law Players.

Designate a certain number of LAWs as anti tank ONLY and the rest as Demolition Players that cannot kill tanks but EVERYTHING else. You would ID them by different colored tapes on the different class of LAWs.

Keep the LAWS busy doing OTHER things like destroying targets for points. Both sides have equal laws and equal point opportunities. More the merrier but it will keep the LAWS off the tanks which are worth no points at most games. Taking tanks out is only done for tactical purposes.

Then let them go at it and have a BLAST playing with their toys. They guys with the SKILLS have the most fun but everyone HAS fun.

Too many LAWs show up Period? No problem. Just spray paint to designate the larger bunkers, bridges, etc. that CAN be destroyed with a Nerf round. The briefing determines whether or not you use the deisgnated painted bunkers only. Teach the Newbies to not bunch up in a bunker with Orange Spray paint on all fours sides.

Of course, all the objectives can be destroyed. If you can't CAPTURE it by the designated time, you can always DESTROY it to deny the other side the points for taking and holding it. Points are neutral. Just TACTICAL play if you play Smart. VERY Large buildings and 'hardened' objectives HQ, com centers, etc. can require a Nerf hit on each section or multiple hits to destroy. Bring in the artillery and autoloaders! This is EASY and CHEAP to do. No reason NOT to.


Let the players play with their toys without ammo limitations. Let the Sport evolve and grow.
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Last edited by Boom Master : 11-14-2010 at 03:28 PM.
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Old 02-22-2011, 10:34 PM #20
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id like to see camera equiped R/C UAVs (seriously how awesome would those be....maybe something to make one of my old RC planes into), but most of all id love to see a more mission oriented game structure on a field that would actually allow tactical movement......OP when you have your scenarionall set to play lmk, iid love to bring around some pump assassins to your game
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Old 07-29-2011, 04:17 PM #21
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I would really like to see this as a sticky.......

good idea on the UNDERCOVER REFS, wow that would really solve alot of cheating issues...
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