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Old 10-14-2003, 09:47 AM #1
splatmonkey
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Barrel Breaks II

Okay, I have tried different barrels (pipe, freak, etc) on the Omen and I am still getting barrel breaks. It does not matter what the recock pressure is set to, it can be so low that I am pinching balls or high enough that I am breaking them in the breach and everything in between.
I think the barrel breaks may be related to the pressure I am running at. Perhaps I have the pressure up too high when trying to make the marker work at 290fps but it seems to break less at 260fps. If I adjust the velocity screw at the back of the marker that the cocking rod goes through will this have the effect of increasing the strength of the hammer hit, increasing the valve open time, and therefore allowing a lower operating pressure for the same fps?
Has anyone been told by Evil tech to adjust that screw to solve a problem? What was the problem? Did it work?
Thanks,
SplatM
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Old 10-14-2003, 10:28 AM #2
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Use the HPR to adjust FPS like that. Barrel breaks is a bad paint barrel match or bad paint in general.
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Old 10-14-2003, 10:35 AM #3
Bathel
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You PSI should be around 200 to 220.

290 is way too high. If you turn it down around 200 you will still be shooting the same FPS, but you won't be breaking the paint.

The reg's sweet spot is around 240 or so. If you increase it above this PSI your FPS will drop. My gun runs great at 190.
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Old 10-14-2003, 10:52 AM #4
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I believe he said the 290 was FPS not PSI, splatmonkey> yes you are right about that adjustment screw. Reducing pressure does tend to be easier on balls but 300psi and less should be low enough not to cause a problem like that so I'm not sure.
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Old 10-14-2003, 11:31 AM #5
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Your using HPA right?

If you are shooting 290 fps, your pressure should NOT be enof to hurt the ball, my guess is that there could posibly be a bur in the breach....
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Old 10-14-2003, 02:52 PM #6
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Quote:
Originally posted by Spartan X
Your using HPA right?

If you are shooting 290 fps, your pressure should NOT be enof to hurt the ball, my guess is that there could posibly be a bur in the breach....
This is not true.

On my Omen on HPA I would get consistent ball breaks with 290 FPS when my reg was on the back side of the sweet spot at 300 PSI. I have lowered the reg to 220 psi and was shooting 290 FPS with no breaks. I have since lowered it to 190 psi because the local field is a 260 field. When I lowered the reg pressure the FPS actually went up a bit before if fell back down.

I have the Evil pipes and match my field paint PMI Premiums.

Maybe there was more than just the PSI causing the barrel breaks but it would break about every 10th ball halfway down the barrel at 300 PSI. Since I have lowered the PSI I have yet to break a ball. 10,000 plus and counting
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Old 10-14-2003, 02:54 PM #7
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Quote:
Originally posted by Chris_PDP
I believe he said the 290 was FPS not PSI, splatmonkey> yes you are right about that adjustment screw. Reducing pressure does tend to be easier on balls but 300psi and less should be low enough not to cause a problem like that so I'm not sure.
Opps ... I guess I should take some reading classes.

Anyway, he can have his PSI on the back side of the sweetspot .... Read above post.
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Old 10-14-2003, 06:48 PM #8
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Quote:
Originally posted by Bathel
This is not true.

On my Omen on HPA I would get consistent ball breaks with 290 FPS when my reg was on the back side of the sweet spot at 300 PSI. I have lowered the reg to 220 psi and was shooting 290 FPS with no breaks. I have since lowered it to 190 psi because the local field is a 260 field. When I lowered the reg pressure the FPS actually went up a bit before if fell back down.

I have the Evil pipes and match my field paint PMI Premiums.

Maybe there was more than just the PSI causing the barrel breaks but it would break about every 10th ball halfway down the barrel at 300 PSI. Since I have lowered the PSI I have yet to break a ball. 10,000 plus and counting
So I take it you messed with the maximun velocity adjuster screw?
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Old 10-15-2003, 08:29 AM #9
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no.

I have only turned the reg and left he max velocity rod alone. However, if you turn your reg up too high you will start to lose FPS.

My Reg out of the box was up to high. I was shooting at 290 FPS, but was getting barrel breaks.

I decided to turn the reg and recock adjuster to their minimums. What I found out was that the reg was set to high. As I turned the reg down my FPS went up a bit and then came back down. When it got to 290 FPS after turning my reg down I had no issues with barrel breaks.

I took my reg to a local shop and they tested the pressure set with one of those oil psi tester things (I can't remember what they are called) ... it showed 220 psi. This was after I had turned it down a good bit from where it was stock.

So ... to recap ... stock out of the box I was shooting 290 FPS, but I was having barrel breaks. I turned the reg down to the 220 psi range and now I have no barrel breaks and the gun still shots 290 PSI.

My recommendation would be to tune the gun from the lowest reg position first. Turn it down to where you are shooting in the lowest you can. Then turn off the recock pressure. Start increasing the reg as the manual explains until you reach 10 fps above your desired FPS. Then take your recock adjuster and start turning it out half turns until the guns starts to recock with no balls in it. At this point I would start working the recock pressure back in at 1/8" turns until the gun stops recocking. Now add a hopper of balls. With the balls in the gun your gun should now recock after every shot. You can tweak this a little (remember very small turns.)

My gun does not recock without balls. It will dry fire 3 to 4 times but then just stop. With the balls loaded I have yet to have it either break a ball or not recock.

This has worked for me. I don't know that it will work for anyone else.

Last edited by Bathel : 10-15-2003 at 03:56 PM.
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Old 10-15-2003, 12:01 PM #10
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Bathel, I like your method.
It would actually make it a tiny bit more gas efficient and i'd imagine it MIGHT be softer on the balls(the camfeed).
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Old 10-15-2003, 02:24 PM #11
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You basically just repeated what I have in my FAQ.....
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Old 10-15-2003, 03:11 PM #12
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Quote:
Originally posted by Spartan X
You basically just repeated what I have in my FAQ.....
NO ... actually I went against some of what you said in your faq. I used your faq to tune my gun and had issues because of how the factory had set the reg.

You said in your Faq:
Quote:
Do not adjust the regulator, tighten it down were it is, and leave it.
Bad choice for in my case. My reg was set way to high from the factory. Even though the FPS was correct the PSI was way wrong. This is why I suggest starting to tune your gun from the lowest reg psi.

You said in your Faq:
Quote:
Gas your gun up, and turn the re-cock screw clockwise to tighten it up. Cock the gun and fire; it should NOT re-cock on its own. Keep backing the re-cock screw out till it can re-cock on its own and keep up with rapid fire. Go a little higher then you want after that, but no more then a quarter of a turn.
I suggested tuning your gun to the point where it started to cock but no further. A quarter turn means a lot to the valve and can change the recock pressure a lot. I actually turned my valve in some more to where it would not recock dry firing but would recock consistant with balls.

You said in your Faq:
Quote:
The regulators pressure output should be fine, but most-likly it will have to be adjusted. Adjust the re-cock all the way down again and turn the reg’s pressure up for more velocity and down for vise versa. Do single shots with the re-cock off to adjust the velocity, Every time you adjust the reg, shoot the gun 2 times to get the regs new set pressure.
If you follow your faq, you set your recock pressure first and then you set your reg and then you redo your recock pressure again? .. why ... why do you want to have to set the recock pressure twice. B4 you even start you should just turn your reg to a very low speed and start from there.

Don't get me wrong ... I am grateful you have done a faq. I think it is very good. It just did not help me since my req was set to high and on the back side of the sweet spot for the vertical reg. This cause the gun to shot the correct FPS but the wrong PSI and the balls were breaking in the barrel. This is why I suggest for this guy to try my method since he has the same issues I had.
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Old 10-15-2003, 03:31 PM #13
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Why did I tell you to keep the Reg were it is? I already answered that...Because it MAY already be adjuster, you are just finding out if it is or not. If it is to high then you would adjust it down.

I am not quite understanding a point, the PSI out-put on the Reg deturmines the Velocity at with the gun fires....so please explain why it is that it can shoot at the same FPS at 300 psi and the same at 200 psi....? I'm not getting it.
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Old 10-15-2003, 03:40 PM #14
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Quote:
Originally posted by Spartan X
I am not quite understanding a point, the PSI out-put on the Reg deturmines the Velocity at with the gun fires....so please explain why it is that it can shoot at the same FPS at 300 psi and the same at 200 psi....? I'm not getting it.
Well ... have you ever heard of sweet spoting a reg?

If you increase your pressure of a reg there comes a point where your FPS will flatten out as you increase your PSI. If you increase your PSI past this point your FPS will actually drop. The point where the reg shoots the max FPS is called the sweet spot. This is where the reg is the most effecient.

Most guns have a velocity adjuster so you can sweet spot your reg and then lower your velocity adjuster to bring your FPS down. When you do this you have a more efficient gun.

Unfortunately the Omen does not work this way or at least I have not tried to adust the velocity rod.

Anyway, I guess the factory had set the FPS i to 290 ... however they did so on the High side of sweet spot. This ment that the reg was set way to high. I'm guess in the 300 plus range. This cased barrel breaks.
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Old 10-15-2003, 03:43 PM #15
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Quote:
Originally posted by Spartan X
Why did I tell you to keep the Reg were it is? I already answered that...Because it MAY already be adjuster, you are just finding out if it is or not. If it is to high then you would adjust it down.
Like I said ... in my case that did not work ... so why have to adjust it twice. It's just a lot easier to turn the reg down before you even start.


Again ... let me say thank you for taking the time to do your faq. I do think this website and people that post on here like yourself have help a number of people. It is a great resource.
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Old 10-15-2003, 05:24 PM #16
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Got cha

I'm always looking for better way to put things, perhap I will work that into the FAQ
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