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Old 02-01-2010, 05:34 PM #22
John-PaintballX3
 
 
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war,

That's fine, I hear you and I encourage ANYONE to ask meaningful questions, not just make accusations. I'd glad to answer anything to the best of my ability. But, I'm signing off for the night. Time to head home

John
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Old 02-01-2010, 06:06 PM #23
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So if you're asking me to produce a 5-minute video of our accuracy and distance testing of .50 caliber from October/November as proof that we're acting with integrity, you're barking up the wrong tree. My reputation speaks for itself, if I may say so.
I understand your history... But as of late, there's been too much slight-of-hand regarding this 50 caliber behind the scenes. Too much fabrication.

Your article had the micro 50 cal shooting a 13 inch spread at 75 feet, when GImilsim themselves show it at 18 inches:



And your article showed the luxe shooting 18 inches, while GImilsim has the ego and dm9 shooting at 17 inches...



So I would imagine the luxe guys would hate to think their gun stinks that much worse than an ego or dm9 even...


So yes... I'm looking for that video. Plain and simple.


I can only imagine that the GIMilsim guys have semi-cherry picked their data to look the best... But in the end, they should have just hired you guys to do it since your data shows their guns in a better light than GImilsim could ever show.

Video and data when you get a free moment please... I'm curious as to why my data was so far off really, and want to see what was done and what I can do differently to replicate your proceedures and testing.
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Old 02-01-2010, 06:15 PM #24
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He might be withholding the videos for some disclosure or promotional issues. He is a part of a company which has to standby contractual obligations which we aren't entitled to know.

John has replied mannerly to some harsh accusations, with legitimate claims, claims which actually belittle GI milsim in a way.
Patience, my friends. In due time we will see if the .50 cal boat will sink or swim.
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Old 02-01-2010, 07:58 PM #25
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painthappy,

Speaking of integrity and full disclosure, why don't you tell us where you got your .50 caliber paint and guns. I'm kind of curious....

John

PS: Yes, I'm still in the office...
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Old 02-01-2010, 08:15 PM #26
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Wow... Won't answer my questions, but ok.. I'll answer yours.

I bought MY .50 caliber gun off pbn:
http://www.pbnation.com/showthread.php?t=3229569

Because I don't get any sweet heart deals, nor do I want to be biased and do favors for my friends. Now frankly I like about every gun I come across and in fact pretty much loved that gun and gave it a fairly glowing review if you watch my video. I don't think I've met a gun I didn't like.

Basic physics tells the story, and then playing with the gun in the field tells that same story. The wind makes the balls hook horribly, it bounces, less distance, etc. Watch my helmet camera videos of me using it in actually game play and shooter hotter than the field normally allows. I was shooting 300 at a 280 field, and still had poor results.

The paint was given to us at world cup, not the paint in the sun, the paint from the back of the trailer. It's the same paint that punkworks was given for their testing (from the same case, different bags). We have friends... and a 6-pack of beer goes a long ways I tell you.

Ok... Your turn.
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Old 02-01-2010, 08:21 PM #27
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Ok, just curious. My turn what? I've answered EVERY question you asked...
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Old 02-01-2010, 08:22 PM #28
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Where's the video is the question that has gone unanswered and avoided. I would just like to see it and see what we did differently from a testing point of view and what I could do to either improve my testing or at least see where I may have gone wrong.

We were promised a video and never saw it. I would like to see it please if it's not too much to ask.
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Old 02-01-2010, 08:28 PM #29
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painthappy,

I thought I answered that when I said we will put ALL of the video clips up once we resume testing. No, it's not too much to ask, and yes, it will be done. We have a plan and we'll stick to it. That's all I can tell you for now. Trust it or not--that's your call.
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Old 02-01-2010, 08:35 PM #30
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You seriously can't put up the video from back in November? And it's now February?

Wow...

I suppose at least you got a new advertiser out of it.
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Old 02-01-2010, 08:51 PM #31
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Actually we got the new advertiser because our web traffic is growing every week. And because we're one of the few magazines left, and we're growing while the others are going under. And because our magazine, dare I say it myself, is really good. And because we work day and night making our company stronger and better. And because we do business with integrity, trust, and a long term vision. Not a vision that changes because one person or one company asks us to. And you're actually building that case for me. Because a lack of integrity would be letting one guy behind a computer dictate how we do business. And sorry my friend, we won't do that. Not for you, not for GIMilsim, and not for Joe Average reader. Everything we do is prepared, though-out, and with the big picture and bettering the game in mind.

But you're entitled to your opinion. And if for some reason you think there's a giant conspiracy or fixed testing to get that $500 a month banner, then that's really okay with me.

Again I offer to answer any legit questions, not accusations.

John
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Old 02-01-2010, 09:02 PM #32
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In your testing you said:
Quote:
At 100 feet, the little Micro put all but two shots it fired completely inside the group produced by the Luxe!
How did you set up the gun to do that? What did you angle the .50 caliber gun up by to get it to shoot inside the 68 caliber grouping?

Edit Question 2: How high off the ground where you shooting?

Since I can't see the video, I'll just have to ask how that was accomplished.
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Old 02-01-2010, 09:06 PM #33
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Quote:
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But you're entitled to your opinion. And if for some reason you think there's a giant conspiracy or fixed testing to get that $500 a month banner, then that's really okay with me.
You are overpaid.
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Old 02-01-2010, 09:30 PM #34
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Hell for $500 a month I'd tell everyone that .50 cal paintballs travel backwards in time and hit the players before the whistle.

I usually don't buy into the conspiracy crap, but this time around I think there is some substance to it. Here is my theory:

His magazine in an honest attempt to test .50cal and GiMilsims products, they contact the company to get the paint and markers. GiMilsim enters into negotiations to start advertising on their site while the testing is going on. The testing comes up less than favorable, so GiMilsim gives them some excuses about the markers being prototypes and asks John to sit on the results and re-test with the final product (which I assume will have the magic, physics defying fill) John and his magazine probably resisted, but GiMilsim most likely threatened to pull their advertising (or offered to pay/buy more adds) And John figured, It won't hurt to put off the testing for a few months. The problem is, everyone that has tested this stuff has gotten totally different results from what John has posted (Painthappy I'm looking at you) so people started asking for evidence of Johns tests. Now hes backed into a corner. If he releases the old videos of the tests (which most likely are nowhere near as favorable as reported) then he will lose a lot of respect and trust from his readers, as well as his revenue from GiMilsim. If he doesn't release it, he looks guilty of working with GiMilsim as a propaganda spewer.

He probably went into this whole mess with the best of intentions, but dealing with GiMilsim has screwed him over with their shady practices.

John, just post the videos, and regain the trust of your audience. It won't be letting Joe reader dictate your policies, it will be giving your audience what it wants, and what it is specifically asking for.

Remember the golden rule, the customer is always right. =)
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Old 02-01-2010, 10:02 PM #35
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Quote:
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Hell for $500 a month I'd tell everyone that .50 cal paintballs travel backwards in time and hit the players before the whistle.

I usually don't buy into the conspiracy crap, but this time around I think there is some substance to it. Here is my theory:

His magazine in an honest attempt to test .50cal and GiMilsims products, they contact the company to get the paint and markers. GiMilsim enters into negotiations to start advertising on their site while the testing is going on. The testing comes up less than favorable, so GiMilsim gives them some excuses about the markers being prototypes and asks John to sit on the results and re-test with the final product (which I assume will have the magic, physics defying fill) John and his magazine probably resisted, but GiMilsim most likely threatened to pull their advertising (or offered to pay/buy more adds) And John figured, It won't hurt to put off the testing for a few months. The problem is, everyone that has tested this stuff has gotten totally different results from what John has posted (Painthappy I'm looking at you) so people started asking for evidence of Johns tests. Now hes backed into a corner. If he releases the old videos of the tests (which most likely are nowhere near as favorable as reported) then he will lose a lot of respect and trust from his readers, as well as his revenue from GiMilsim. If he doesn't release it, he looks guilty of working with GiMilsim as a propaganda spewer.

He probably went into this whole mess with the best of intentions, but dealing with GiMilsim has screwed him over with their shady practices.

John, just post the videos, and regain the trust of your audience. It won't be letting Joe reader dictate your policies, it will be giving your audience what it wants, and what it is specifically asking for.

Remember the golden rule, the customer is always right. =)

The Golden Rule can go to hell. The customer is wrong just as often as the business men. I'm doubting $500 a month is enough to lie about testing or let GI Milsim dictate X3 policy. Italia himself has stated that 1.25 is the max we will see 50cal at.
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Old 02-01-2010, 10:02 PM #36
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I've answered the questions to the best of my ability. It's time for me to move on. It's 11PM and I've put in a 17 hour day. If you'd like to continue this conversation I'll happily answer any emails sent my way. Thanks all!

Recap:

1. we will resume testing as soon as we get working guns.
2. we will post videos and data at that time.
3. we will continue to answer emails on the subject.

John
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Old 02-01-2010, 10:15 PM #37
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Originally Posted by warbeak2099(on .50 cal)
It gets 1k shots more per fill because of the lazering. Don't worry about it making sense, Chris Lasoya says it's true so that's good enough for me...

Seriously though, his shampoo has got to have ****ing heroine in it
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Old 02-01-2010, 10:24 PM #38
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Like I said, I don't think GI Milsim is trying to dictate policy, they are probably just asking to X3 to sit on their test results until they get the "finished product". I'm sure John and X-3 went into this with all the best intentions, but the propaganda add campaign GI Milsim has put out has been poked full of holes. Anyone who is backing GI Milsims claims needs to put forth some evidence to back it up. The fact that X3 is now getting paid by GI Milsim just makes things look really suspicious. They can put all this to rest just by posting a video. I fail to see why they are so resistant to doing such a simple thing. It wont hurt them (unless GI Milsim pulls their ads) and it would put an end to all this. Claiming "They don't want Average Joe Reader dictating policy" is just a side step. Why not just stick out their tongue and going "You can't make me! NA-na nana NA!"
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Old 02-02-2010, 01:18 AM #39
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I don't see wow all of the guns you got to do testing went out of commission, other then as a statement of quality I suppose.

Either way, all you really need is a 50 cal barrel to test 50 cal paintballs. You don't need a whole gun, you don't need any of that crap, if you have a 50 cal barrel you can test 50.

Also, in science, your reputation NEVER speaks for itself. NEVER EVER does that fly in science. If you want to make a claim, you better be willing to back it up. You had better have the evidence in hand to present a compelling case.
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Old 02-02-2010, 02:42 AM #40
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Richmond Italia: "This is not going to happen overnight. Like X-Ball I'm sure it will take several years to become the standard. But people, I can't do this alone. This is a good thing for our industry. End users will benefit and just in paint savings the average player will pay off his new gun in less than a year. Magazine editors, you also need to do your part. How much more readership will you gain when airsoft, police and military trainees start picking up your mags? Store owners you will see airsoft people looking you up. Fields, you will now have a paint that delivers LESS energy, hence less pain."


Just thought I would point that out. Did myself a little searching.
That quote was from an interview that Richmond Italia had with X3.
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Old 02-02-2010, 04:55 AM #41
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John - I can see both sides of this.

1) You haven't been able to complete your tests because (for a variety of reasons) the markers you received don't work anymore.

2) For whatever reason, it has taken more than 3 months to get replacements (although the markers themselves can now be purchased online).

3) Some data is available, but you don't want to post the results until you have all of the testing complete.

Okay, I certainly understand that. Here is what I don't understand.

4) You've posted some results in the first two parts of the article - but refuse to post up the accompanying video to prove it.

5) Said "Trust Me" when it comes to answering questions regarding the relationship between GI Milsim & X3 or the status of the articles themselves.

Unfortunately, that seems to be the standard line amongst .50 supporters - Trust Us - without any verifiable reason to do so. I appreciat your taking the time to come here and give us a bit of insight, but unless you are contractually restricted from posting the video - you probably should, at the earliest possible time (it should have been included with part 2 of the article or in close proximity to it).

Of course, you are more than able to tell us all to take a flying leap - Painthappy has been more than diligent in putting it all out there & both praising and knocking when appropriate - and letting us see his process & how he came to his conclusions.

In this case, he asked why the video couldn't be released now - and you've avoided giving him a reason. Just my .02 (from someone who's been around even a bit longer than you)
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Old 02-02-2010, 06:55 AM #42
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LoneWolf,

I've already said all I will on the subject in this forum. This is going nowhere. Again, I invite emails and I will answer all of them.
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