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Old 02-01-2010, 12:34 AM #1
Spitlebug
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Paintball X3? So where is it?

Dear JoshPB2X,


I am writing you an open letter to let everyone know that you sir, have failed to make good on your promises to the paintball community.

Last year you wrote two articles in a scheduled four part review. In part one (see here: Paintball X3 - 50 Caliber Review (Part 1 of 4) the very last line reads as follows:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Paintball X3
We’ll have data, statistics and video in the next installments.
Shortly after that you posted up part two of the series, which was then shortly taken down. Luckily Google does a good job of chacheing websites and the removed article can be read here: Google Cache: Paintball X3 - 50 Caliber Review (Part 2 of 4)

Many users here have requested the data that you had promised earlier. They also noted that you had removed part two of four and questioned whether G.I. Milsim had paid you or was a sponsor of Paintball X3.

You replied to the community regarding these concerns as:

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoshPB2X View Post
Actually guys, it's really not all as sinister as you make it seem. We had some minor equipment-related delays. We were waiting on some more paint from GI and I had some questions about the prototype gun they sent me and before moving forward with the testing, we wanted to be sure we had what we needed.

That said, we also knew it was getting to be a long time since part 2 so rather than continue to leave it up, we decided to move forward with other gear and other industry news and just get back to the .50 caliber when we had all our ducks in a row.

Oh and FYI, neither GI Milsim nor Darryl at DLX seemed to mind about part 2


That little .50 cal gun really did shoot good!

One other thing...when we took on the testing of the .50 cal gear and published parts 1 and 2, GI MilSim did not advertise with us. So no, thank you, they did not in-fact pay us for a good review.

So basically, believe what you want, you're gonna do that anyway.

HAPPY HOLIDAYS EVERYONE!
To this day we haven't had any facts, figures or videos from you or anyone else from Paintball X3. Moreover, I stopped by your site to see that G.I. Milsim is an advertiser at your site as can be seen here:



Did you know that recent FTC Guidelines have changed? You are suject to these new guidelines {FTC Guideline changes (10/05/2009), Paintball X3 part 1 of 4 (10/21/2009)}:

Quote:
Originally Posted by FTC.gov
The revised Guides also add new examples to illustrate the long standing principle that “material connections” (sometimes payments or free products) between advertisers and endorsers – connections that consumers would not expect – must be disclosed. These examples address what constitutes an endorsement when the message is conveyed by bloggers or other “word-of-mouth” marketers. The revised Guides specify that while decisions will be reached on a case-by-case basis, the post of a blogger who receives cash or in-kind payment to review a product is considered an endorsement. Thus, bloggers who make an endorsement must disclose the material connections they share with the seller of the product or service. Likewise, if a company refers in an advertisement to the findings of a research organization that conducted research sponsored by the company, the advertisement must disclose the connection between the advertiser and the research organization. And a paid endorsement – like any other advertisement – is deceptive if it makes false or misleading claims.
The entire body of that article can be found here: FTC Publishes Final Guides Governing Endorsements, Testimonials.

Please show us these videos, facts and figures.

While I can't speak for the entirety of the community, I for one feel lied to and makes me angry.

Sincerely,

Spitlebug
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Old 02-01-2010, 02:58 AM #2
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Awesome post man. Congrats on the research, I just read through all of it and saved the catche'd text for future reference.

I really hope this is answered. It's plain and simple, your just asking for facts. Facts which might be guaranteed to you by a new FTC regulation...
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Old 02-01-2010, 08:06 AM #3
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The fact that things should be disclosed I thought were basic journalistic standards. Could be just a coincidence... But MAN, what a coincidence.

I mean, most reviewers have trouble getting these guns and paint, I know I had to buy a gun that was given away, and the boys at punk works couldn't get a gun or paint either, and had to use a kit.

These guys got a hold of all the goodies... Posted one of the ONLY favorable reviews.. Took the review down, and now that same company has ads up in a couple of places.

Very interesting indeed.

I also see a top and much larger banner being run also on that site besides the one you posted.

Good research.
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Old 02-01-2010, 08:56 AM #4
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I love when someone actually takes the time to do a little research. Richy boy and his chronies could learn a lot from that.

I'd also like to see the info being requested. Let's see the valid refutation of all the proven problems with .50 cal. I'd love to see a good, fact based argument from the .50 cal camp. Such a thing just hasn't existed yet.
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Old 02-01-2010, 10:58 AM #5
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One other thing...when we took on the testing of the .50 cal gear and published parts 1 and 2, GI MilSim did not advertise with us. So no, thank you, they did not in-fact pay us for a good review.


John or one of the other staff members stated several times that GI Milsim didn't advertise with them at the time of the tests. The fact they advertise now seems pointless


While I see what your trying to do Spitle and I agree with you most of the time this seems a little excessive.

I would like to see the 3 and 4 also.
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Old 02-01-2010, 11:59 AM #6
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Malitov View Post
While I see what your trying to do Spitle and I agree with you most of the time this seems a little excessive.
I only want the data.
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Old 02-01-2010, 12:23 PM #7
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Okay, so this is quite a large deal about nothing, sorry to say. The simple fact is we are waiting on working guns from GIMilsim. They were promised to use in "early February." The second we get the guns we will be back testing.

Regarding the banner ad from GIMilsim, we got that LONG after the first two .50 caliber articles ran. I'll again address the bias you might think is there... the fact that I am publicly stating that we don't have "working" .50 caliber guns should be all you need to know about a perceived bias.

John
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Old 02-01-2010, 12:27 PM #8
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Wow - you've been waiting quite a bit for "working" markers. That, in itself, is a very bad sign.
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Old 02-01-2010, 12:33 PM #9
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Sooooo... What were you previously testing with? You know... That whole original part 2 thing?

Did you lose the gun in a lake after part 2? That's where mine almost ened up. lol.

Of course you can just buy them online now:
http://www.airsplat.com/Categories/PaintballMarker.htm
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Old 02-01-2010, 12:36 PM #10
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painthappy, no actually both (or may three) markers (prototypes) actually stopped working with various problems. So, despite the fact that we set up all types of testing standards, equipment, space, etc., we had to stop the test for now.
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Old 02-01-2010, 12:43 PM #11
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Again, not a good sign in general - and I will say that I appreciate the response from John. I believe it says a lot more than the articles ever could.
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Old 02-01-2010, 12:51 PM #12
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoneWolf99 View Post
I believe it says a lot more than the articles ever could.
Yup.. Having 2 or 3 guns break during testing is like the last nail in that .50 cal coffin.

I mean... You'd have to make that stuff up if it wasn't true right? Way to go quality control!!!
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Old 02-01-2010, 12:55 PM #13
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painthappy,

I'm not sure how you would come to the conclusion that this would be "the last nail in the coffin" of .50 caliber. The guns we got were prototypes, and we ere trying to test the paint, not the guns, knowing this. That said, it's not a good thing, but it's something we'll have to work through. We are waiting on new guns to arrive and we'll be back testing.

Once the next round of testing begins we'll be happy to answer any more questions. Also at that time, we'll include all of the video clips we shot and will be shooting. We're really hoping to be as in-depth as possible.

Thanks all for the questions. Let me know if there's anything else.

John
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Old 02-01-2010, 01:38 PM #14
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Something you might also want to consider, this is actually a pretty responsible thing on behalf of PBX3, granted if this happened in something like Mountain Biking or a tech mag the manufacturer would have 2 or 3 new *** holes but giving GI the benefit of the doubt and letting them prove thier product isn't a bad thing. Since GI went with "oriental" manufacturing the 4 to 6 month lead time created this situation which isn't a surprise and was probably a very large mis-step on behalf of GI by having a "Product Launch" at cup with no product for nearly a quarter.
Something that you should take note though John in something that was very highly debated in the community, clarity and transparency goes a long way. If you ran into issues and wanted to hold off on the testing it shouldn't have taken weeks or months for people to demand answers, it's not your product being tested but it is your publications integrity on the line, which the lack of information coming out led to it being attacked. An idea for future "Series", you should maybe give that series it's own page where all the articles and information can found so readers don't have to search through back logs for article chunks or scroll through an article to get links from the foot notes. Organizing your articles, data and opinion so that it's more user friendly in an digital environment may go a long way in defining PBX3's feature set. Defending the integrity of your testing is one thing, your primary concern should be protecting the integrity of your publication and not allow a manufacture to jeopardize that through their own short comings.

Just a thought from the outside.
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Old 02-01-2010, 01:48 PM #15
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Bigman,

All fair points. On December 3 we reported on the website that we had some equipment problems and that we would get back to the testing "soon" though.
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Old 02-01-2010, 02:08 PM #16
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I saw but what was the time from Article 2 to the "On Hold" notice? I think you guys came on here at least a few times to let people know what you where doing and what was going on before and after that, a lot of people don't come to PBNation for their news. I'm just saying you guys should really spend more time using your outlet to keep people up to date, I hate to really say this but a more active blog style system to correspond with articles wouldn't hurt, I hate having to use the b-word but really that's the way media is moving.
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Old 02-01-2010, 02:15 PM #17
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Interesting. We're updating PaintballX3.com at least 4-5 times a day. There are places to comment on every page. Not sure I want to get any more "bloggish" than that
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Old 02-01-2010, 03:43 PM #18
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Well then...

Where is the video from the part 2 testing? So we don't have to wait for part 3.

The comments clearly stated by "admin" that, and I quote:

Quote:
All of the testing we do is video-recorded. At some point in the near future we
will also be posting the videos here. As far as your other questions go, this is
a four part series so your questions will be answered in a few weeks. Thanks!
Answered in a few weeks, but posted back in November... But I digress.

Where's the video of the that testing? Or did it convienently get lost or deleted???

Please excuse my skeptacism here, and I'm not trying to be a jerk, but so far the ONLY people that have said anything overly positive about 50 caliber have had a reason (be it friends, or monetary reasons) to do so it seems.

You are the only testers to say that .50 caliber was more accurate aside from GIMilsim themselves. Around 4 or 5 others have tested it (including myself) and did not come up with that result.

So obviously the other testers were curious as to why the results varied so much from yours and ours. We waited for the data... None came. We waited for the video... None came.

The data was then deleted from your site.

Still nothing came.

And now you run ads for GIMilsim.

...

Starting to follow the issue many of us have? Innocent or not, it sure doesn't look good, and it sure has hell casts a huge doubt over future reviews in the area for sure.
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Old 02-01-2010, 04:50 PM #19
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I agree, however I do appreciate John's willingness to answer these questions, as we all should. It shows a tremendous amount of responsibility. That having been said, the results of their test are still quite questionable
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Old 02-01-2010, 05:25 PM #20
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painthappy,

I'll answer you this way. I've been in the paintball magazine business since 1991, 19 years, been playing for 25 years. I've made a living in paintball since 1989. You don't hang around in an industry that long without integrity. So if you're asking me to produce a 5-minute video of our accuracy and distance testing of .50 caliber from October/November as proof that we're acting with integrity, you're barking up the wrong tree. My reputation speaks for itself, if I may say so.

When we get the new guns and resume the testing we'll include the videos from November as well as the new videos. Until then my friend, ask the nearest 50 people in the paintball industry about my integrity and you'll get the answer you're after.
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Old 02-01-2010, 05:29 PM #21
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We understand you behave with integrity, you coming on here and standing up to questioning is evidence of that. However, you have to admit that under the circumstances, your results are somewhat questionable. You have achieved results that no other testing has achieved and now you are at least marginally monetarily connected with GI Milsim. You can certainly understand why some rather intelligent people are not convinced.
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