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Old 01-29-2010, 09:44 PM #22
washington (Banned)
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wgp's regs are great, also look at sidewinders and palmers
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Old 01-29-2010, 10:21 PM #23
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Quote:
Originally Posted by washington View Post
the gui=de rod for the pump kit is already hollow? thats odd, mst are solid
I don't know if they all are, but some WGP kits have hollow guide rods.
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Old 01-29-2010, 11:51 PM #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by drgonzo View Post
I don't know if they all are, but some WGP kits have hollow guide rods.
yes but usually 99 threaded pump kits ( which he has) are too skinny to have an effective volume chamber
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Old 01-30-2010, 12:58 AM #25
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Originally Posted by EvilAuthorityX View Post
yes but usually 99 threaded pump kits ( which he has) are too skinny to have an effective volume chamber
So why couldn't I just machine a larger one? And what volume would be preferable?
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Old 01-30-2010, 12:52 PM #26
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I wrote up a few things that may help..
-------------------------------------

#1) dont hold the pump handle silly... the initial blast will drive the bolt back 1/2" against the pressure of the pump return spring - and that blast wont be heard. Ironically this can actually speed up the velocity - so if you use this technique, chrony using the "hold" and "no-hold" techniques. Why this occures is theorized to be related to decreased initial deformation on the ball resulting in decreased initial drag on the ball. (This technique also works pretty well on the PYRE.) The ball regains initial shape faster, the goo inside becomes stable faster - and the ball flies better.... i.e., the legend of the sniper II.

#2) Get the pressure down -- 350 is a good goal, and 180 for the crazys out there. A higher volume, lower pressure pop on the ball >> higher pressure, lower volume pop -- and more stable ball as it exits the barrel. The lower the pressure, the more quiet the shot.

#3) More barrel, and port it - alot. My favorite oldschool barrel has to the original 16" All American for quiet. The Bob Long "longshot" is a step above accuracy wise, but I think the AA is the quietest.. In new school, any of the 16" heavily ported barrels will do. I would lean to the 16" new style STO Kaner kit for the best "quiet" barrel kit. WGP made a pretty monumental error in discontinuing these.

So far, most of the Sniper 2 fans out there already knew this stuff.

#4) JAM Enterprises made an open faced spring loaded bolt that essentially accomplished the same thing as not holding the pump handle. The initial blast drives the bolt back 1/2" against the pressure of the internal bolt spring. Now if you dont hold the pump handle also, it gets even quieter. You run the risk of double feeding and a heavy pump return spring is advisable to dial this in. This mod makes a huge difference in quieting down that sniper --much, much, much more so than any of the "silencers" of the early 90s.

#5) One shot silly. Give them fewer shots to hear. I know its elementary, but it seems a lot of new school kiddies love their ATs. There is a time to be noisy, and a time to be quiet - lest we forget. This is why the right feed bodies are favored by the oldschool pump ballers.

#6) Neoprene that hopper .. to keep the raddeling down.

#7) Loose the tubes and pods : there has to be nothing noisier than a pack full of pods or a harness full of tubes running through the woods. I personally like the old thick-walled 90 round whaler feeds w/ neoprene cover and no spare paint. I also run a 200rnd 9V revy w/ neoprene for big games/scenarios when I know Ill be out for a few hours.

#8) Quiet that pump kit... I know a lot of guys will cringe at this, but man a lot of metal on metal pump kits go "click, click, click" -- Personally I lean delrin (handles) and steel (pump rods) and aluminum (guide rods).

#9) Full Length Springs : I believe you want your main spring full length, with one turn in on the ivg. This should prevent the "TWANG" and give the most consistant performance.. This can fight against any ultra low pressure goals.

#10) CO2 or HPA) Palmer theories that CO2 expands slower than HPA. It would be cool to do a sound test at a fixed pressure. I would lean HPA if going < 350psi, and CO2 if content at 300-350 and playing in SC with a well broken in STAB.
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Old 01-30-2010, 01:20 PM #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCMI_Teddy View Post
So why couldn't I just machine a larger one? And what volume would be preferable?
because the part that screws in is about the size of a pencil (so imagine hollowing out a pencil)

compared to 2k+ threads which are the size of a crayolla marker
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Old 01-30-2010, 02:06 PM #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilAuthorityX View Post
because the part that screws in is about the size of a pencil (so imagine hollowing out a pencil)

compared to 2k+ threads which are the size of a crayolla marker
To make sure we're talking about the same part, here's what I've been calling the guide rod. This is it right?



When I make the larger guide rod I could taper the inside of the it at the end (side feeding into marker) so when the valve is opened the velocity of the air would increase through the valve

Here's a quick model I made.


This would allow for a volume of ~19.13 mL/ compared to the ~2.49mL of the stock guide rod


scroadkill: I've had that page booked marked for a while now. Awesome write-up!
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Last edited by OCMI_Teddy : 02-02-2010 at 03:34 PM. Reason: Redid math for volume
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Old 01-30-2010, 08:42 PM #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by EvilAuthorityX View Post
yes but usually 99 threaded pump kits ( which he has) are too skinny to have an effective volume chamber
That's not true, the Mitey Max etc. were 99-sized volumizers and they were perfectly effective.
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Last edited by drgonzo : 01-30-2010 at 08:45 PM.
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Old 01-31-2010, 01:34 AM #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCMI_Teddy View Post
To make sure we're talking about the same part, here's what I've been calling the guide rod. This is it right?



When I make the larger guide rod I could taper the inside of the it at the end (side feeding into marker) so when the valve is opened the velocity of the air would increase through the valve

Here's a quick model I made.


This would allow for a volume of ~93 mL/ compared to the ~56 mL of the stock guide rod


scroadkill: I've had that page booked marked for a while now. Awesome write-up!
how do you plan to manufacture that, given that the non-threaded end needs to be sealed? unless you make a plug that screws into the end of it (and then you run the risk of having the plug come off without the rod if you want to take it apart), that internal taper is going to be all but impossible. i'd say look into getting a reg with more post-regulated volume (sidewinder with a medium or long top, etc.) or a reg extender of some sort, and drill out the stock guide rod to 5/32", maybe 3/16" if you're brave and don't plan to nosedive ever (5/32" leaves about .07" between the inner wall and the minor diameter of the threads, 3/16" is a little shy of .06"). if you really want more volume in the guide rod, bore out the body and tap it for 2k+ threads (3/4" - 16), that'll give you more room to play with in the guide rod.
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Old 01-31-2010, 02:39 AM #31
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you could easily make that and plug it off with a pipe plug and loctite. That's how many volumizers are made. but it's not really necessary to go that far. If you want to volumize, drill out to 2k specs and drill out the 2k guide normally.
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Old 01-31-2010, 05:39 AM #32
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Originally Posted by cww516 View Post
how do you plan to manufacture that, given that the non-threaded end needs to be sealed? unless you make a plug that screws into the end of it (and then you run the risk of having the plug come off without the rod if you want to take it apart), that internal taper is going to be all but impossible. i'd say look into getting a reg with more post-regulated volume (sidewinder with a medium or long top, etc.) or a reg extender of some sort, and drill out the stock guide rod to 5/32", maybe 3/16" if you're brave and don't plan to nosedive ever (5/32" leaves about .07" between the inner wall and the minor diameter of the threads, 3/16" is a little shy of .06"). if you really want more volume in the guide rod, bore out the body and tap it for 2k+ threads (3/4" - 16), that'll give you more room to play with in the guide rod.
I plan on threading the other end with a heavy gauge thread then welding the plug. The internal taper wouldn't be that difficult to do. I have bits that are capable of making that sort of taper. This will be put into a wooden stock so the guide rod will be fairly protected.

I'll look into boring out the body to 3/4" - 16, its going to be cutting it a little close as it is, and I may have some issues with the guide rod hitting the barrel at that point. It's late and I'll do some more work on it tomorrow and come back with a plan
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Old 01-31-2010, 12:38 PM #33
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Cool

Ok so I thought about it and ihave two therories that could infact make ur pump seem quieter

1 build a giant sound proof bubble, bubble boy style, it may seem far like a stupid idea but if u stick the barrel out of said bubble, ur opponents won't hear a thing, of course u'd have to check with your local field owner to allow said bubble, and worry about calling paintcheck and other such calls, but the bubble will add other advantages such as playing downhill

2 make ur pump so loud it will deafen ur opponents, shattering eardrums is a bonus. I highly recommend attaching a device to ur pump handle that will launch a flash bang grenade at the same velocity and range of ur paintballs, just don't forget ur earplugs

both ideas are a work in progress but should get the job done.
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Old 02-01-2010, 05:32 AM #34
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Old 02-01-2010, 11:26 AM #35
noah harper
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was your pump just from ebay? I thought I saw it there or was it the BST?

I was looking at that one or one just like it
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Old 02-01-2010, 01:22 PM #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scroadkill View Post
I wrote up a few things that may help..
-------------------------------------

[removed]
Awful lot of outdated information, unproven claims and FUD in that post there.
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Old 02-01-2010, 02:18 PM #37
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About the back block issue. If Pumping the pump is causing too much nose, I have a few suggestions that would not "modify" your pump.

1. If you are trying to be stealthy and not be heard, shouldn't you already have a ball chambered? If so, then you will not need to pump on your first shot.

2. If you need to pump, since you are not discovered or still stealth, slow your pump. gently bring your pump handle to the forward position so that your back block gently taps the body causing no metal to metal noise. Wouldn't that work?

Lastly after your initial shot, you are going to be giving your position away 9-10 times. And for that 1 time out of 10 you are not discovered, can't you just refer to suggestion #2?
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Old 02-01-2010, 03:11 PM #38
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Originally Posted by MrStiK View Post
About the back block issue. If Pumping the pump is causing too much nose, I have a few suggestions that would not "modify" your pump.

1. If you are trying to be stealthy and not be heard, shouldn't you already have a ball chambered? If so, then you will not need to pump on your first shot.

2. If you need to pump, since you are not discovered or still stealth, slow your pump. gently bring your pump handle to the forward position so that your back block gently taps the body causing no metal to metal noise. Wouldn't that work?

Lastly after your initial shot, you are going to be giving your position away 9-10 times. And for that 1 time out of 10 you are not discovered, can't you just refer to suggestion #2?
This is about making the marker in every sense quieter. By placing a rubber gasket it completly eliminates the noise when done slowly. I could see my self having to rapidly cock the marker when there's multiple targets in close proxcimity.

Quote:
Originally Posted by noah harper View Post
was your pump just from ebay? I thought I saw it there or was it the BST?

I was looking at that one or one just like it
yep
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Old 02-01-2010, 08:21 PM #39
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If you are going to these lengths for quietness, the mQ is all but required.
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Old 02-01-2010, 08:22 PM #40
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have many people read this, and wondered if this guy is truly an aeronautical engineer???


edit: nvm, but, i am seriously considering not getting on planes again.
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Old 02-01-2010, 08:38 PM #41
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I'm using a reg like a Palmer Female http://www.palmer-pursuit.com/online...zer-female.htm mounted at the bottom of the frame. I suspect if you run that into a air through grip:http://www.directpaintball.com/PMI-R...2167C1403.aspx you'll have plenty of air on the valve side of the reg to drop the pressure considerably. Use the softest valve spring and sweet spot. Even with my mini'ed sniper and not using a gas thru grip, I'm down to 250 psi. I'm using a deadly wind 12 inch barrel and the gun is plenty quiet. I heard nothing beats tapping a cut off 2 liter bottle to the end of the barrel though. Good luck
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Old 02-01-2010, 08:45 PM #42
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Quote:
Originally Posted by OCMI_Teddy View Post
This is about making the marker in every sense quieter. By placing a rubber gasket it completly eliminates the noise when done slowly. I could see my self having to rapidly cock the marker when there's multiple targets in close proxcimity.
A rubber gasket will cause the back block to not close the bolt completely and this will cause the hole on your bolt to not line up properly to the exhaust hole on your sniper.

No matter how quiet you get your pumping action to be, how are you going to deal with the click of the sear catching the hammer lug. Eliminate the hammer and sear?

To be honest, a sniper is not all too loud to pump. You are overestimating your opponents ability to hear on the paintball field. All masks provide ear protection which will muffle any noise they may hear. It is not like you will be playing with players who will be using sensitive listening devices or sonar type instruments to hunt you down.
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