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Old 01-25-2010, 12:30 PM #295
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Originally Posted by sumorai View Post
Your point is taken, but your analogy is a bit off-track. It's more like a service-oriented business. In the business I work for, we provide a service to our customers and they pay us for said service. We listen to those customer complaints and suggestions closely. Why? Because they are the ones paying us. They keep the business running. If we ignore our customers' demands and complaints, they will no longer be our customers, and with no customers our business cannot exist.

Do they control everything we do? Surely not. Sometimes we have to say no to them and risk turning them away, and certainly that has happened before. The majority remain loyal customers because we do everything in our power to give them what they want. We communicate with them regularly and treat them with respect, not as walking wallets.

This is customer service at its most basic.

The league has ignored requests by at least one field owner in New England to discuss using their field for an event this season. The league has apparently not contacted any other New England fields regarding hosting events. The league did, however, discuss fields with (at least) one team owner (JAWPaintball) prior to announcing that information to the rest of the league. The league has not made any effort to contact their customers to find out what they want, nor do they give them any say at all in league decisions. That is poor customer service.

I am currently an AXBL franchise owner, and the only time I have been contacted was the league asking for deposit money, and a "happy holidays" email. I have emailed Mitch asking about these things and have not yet received a response.

One can only re-state the same idea so many times before growing bored of it. This discussion will go nowhere because it has become far too inflamed for the league to get a handle on and post a proper response. We'll see what happens with this season, and as Stein has stated, owners can vote with their wallets.


Truthfully I loved going to Boston and the weather was amazing the field other then your nails attacked our snake player was good. I would have no issues with flying up there again. The problem really comes down to the fact that the squeeky wheel gets the oil. And if someone is saying hey play here for free well Free is always better.
I believe that we should play in different locals and avoid sodus no offence the field was just poor. I enjoy the axbl and hope it stays around but from hearing so many people talk I'm afriad for another NPPL situation where they stop caring about the players and then all the money dries up. I don't think Mitch is purposely ignoring people he believes in this league or he would have cut and run a long time ago.
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Old 01-25-2010, 12:33 PM #296
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I think the overall theme of this:

For owners: Lack of communication from the league and reasons to why we are heading in this direction, the cost to services received ratio, the location and well the general halt of all progression in advancement of the league.

For the players: Sodus, travel and well....travel.

I wished there was a meeting. I would go. I want answers. I am pretty sure all the other owners would drive to see wtf is going on.
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Old 01-25-2010, 12:36 PM #297
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KidInfamous,

A couple of points:

1) You might want to talk to John before you post that his field might have been passed over. The details are a bit different then that (I know - because I had an extensive conversation with John this morning).

2) I can't say I know Mitch or why he runs this league, but the business person in me says it's because he's making some money. I'm not saying millions, but he's scratching out a living between running the store and running the league. I would be surprised to find out that Mitch was cutting and running if he was still making what he thought was an acceptable amount of money for the effort he's putting in - has nothing to do with the level of *****ing or level of his ignoring people.
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Old 01-25-2010, 12:55 PM #298
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I've been reading this for several days. My son has been playing in this Series from the begining, before it finally turned into the AXBL. So i've seen the leagues progression. Yes this year the league has changed its format, but we all knew it was coming. Our economy is the true example of why this was done. Survival mode, i would say no,but saving money,yes. Dave Painter you say you have a passion for this sport and league. You of all people should know that airing your dirty laundry on a public forum is not the proper way to to business. This can only lead to (as it has done) bring out the people that have always had some sort of problem with the league for verious reasons. I cant say why Mitch hasnt answered you, but im taking your word for it, not that you could be saying a lie. I dont know you from atom. Thats what amazes me everyone here, always tells the truth from the way they see it, and everyone belives it. If Boston had an event last year and its getting near the date for the next years schedule to come out, wouldn't you do everthing in your power to contact the organizer of the events and not take it for granted that your getting another one next year. Well you say they didnt get back to me...if they got back to me i would be happy to drive to Rochester to have a meeting. well if its that important to you (witch it sounds) Jump in your car and go see Mitch at NVP in Rochester, no one stopped you from doing that.What you do instead is slam communication here on a public forum , when you are just as much to blame as the AXBL. The owner from R+M made a point to see Mitch personnally, thats how you get answers. It's not getting special treatment its called taking resposibility yourself. I have seen only 2-3 owners complain on here and one would believe all are complaining!. They are not, you say we should have an event in the New England states because your 1/3 or 1/2 half of the league. Well we can look to the previous years when most of the teams were coming out of NY and we had 2+ events in NJ. We didnt try to set up a bouycott we went and played and had a good time. As for the fields location, it seems that because Sodas is not a turf field it not a good location. Everyone always wants to play on turf its so professional looking...... high cost also. If you play on grass its a step down. We it is also safer to play on grass than turf, and if you look back there were allot of complaints about the turf on 2-fields in Boston. Im sorry to tell you that, was grass you played on in Sodas, not a hay field,was it perfect no but nice, look back at the pictures. Your going to get complains from every venue. Oh you'll say we had so many more than the other's, i think not. You just had the same people complaining about the same thing over and over. Go back and count them , I did. If you basing your information on the number of pages in the topic, you can be fooled because as Dave Painter did, (not picking on u really) he was having a conversation with several people on this topic forum making it look as if hundreds of people are chimming in on this topic! Bottom line is people complained last year about having to travel a long distance to play one match. The league did lisen and is saving you money by not having 4 events. Yes they're saving money too, so what ! Bottom line, same amount of paintball,less money on travel expenses. Bino quit complaining !! You do it every year...everyone should pay him no mind! Chris R. dont know why but you have a problem with this league too. You have said the same thing every year also just to stir people up. (If you add up the costs the AXBL are million'ers its not fair). Why do you state your oppinion in a league you have nothing to do with! Oh yea thats why u state your oppinion u dont doing anything for this league. Grow-up and knock it off! JDEv- the moderator funny you have had some negitive things to say about this league in the past too, If you really were doing your job u would see that Chris R and Bino are just stirring the pot ! Same thing everyyear ! you should remove there posts just on that primous alone. but a guess everyone cant be perfect. Just as u should remove the posts by the the people that support the Headrush League.( They have a nice product but should it be discust here, no.) Lets just all stick together the economy sucks and everyone is trying to do there best! Lets all work together to make this year a successful year. And thats to have fun playing paintball.- Sorry about my spelling error's and grammer(i know someone will make slam for them). PS - just because you bought a team that was in the playoff's in 2009 doesnt mean that team will make it in 2010-- you didnt buy the the players just the franchise name.

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Old 01-25-2010, 01:12 PM #299
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tugboat1200 View Post
I've been reading this for several days. My son has been playing in this Series from the begining, before it finally turned into the AXBL. So i've seen the leagues progression. Yes this year the league has changed its format, but we all knew it was coming. Our economy is the true example of why this was done. Survival mode, i would say no,but saving money,yes. Dave Painter you say you have a passion for this sport and league. You of all people should know that airing your dirty laundry on a public forum is not the proper way to to business. This can only lead to (as it has done) bring out the people that have always had some sort of problem with the league for verious reasons. I cant say why Mitch hasnt answered you, but im taking your word for it, not that you could be saying a lie. I dont know you from atom. Thats what amazes me everyone here, always tells the truth from the way they see it, and everyone belives it. If Boston had an event last year and its getting near the date for the next years schedule to come out, wouldn't you do everthing in your power to contact the organizer of the events and not take it for granted that your getting another one next year. Well you say they didnt get back to me...if they got back to me i would be happy to drive to Rochester to have a meeting. well if its that important to you (witch it sounds) Jump in your car and go see Mitch at NVP in Rochester, no one stopped you from doing that.What you do instead is slam communication here on a public forum , when you are just as much to blame as the AXBL. The owner from R+M made a point to see Mitch personnally, thats how you get answers. It's not getting special treatment its called taking resposibility yourself. I have seen only 2-3 owners complain on here and one would believe all are complaining!. They are not, you say we should have an event in the New England states because your 1/3 or 1/2 half of the league. Well we can look to the previous years when most of the teams were coming out of NY and we had 2+ events in NJ. We didnt try to set up a bouycott we went and played and had a good time. As for the fields location, it seems that because Sodas is not a turf field it not a good location. Everyone always wants to play on turf its so professional looking...... high cost also. If you play on grass its a step down. We it is also safer to play on grass than turf, and if you look back there were allot of complaints about the turf on 2-fields in Boston. Im sorry to tell you that, was grass you played on in Sodas, not a hay field,was it perfect no but nice, look back at the pictures. Your going to get complains from every venue. Oh you'll say we had so many more than the other's, i think not. You just had the same people complaining about the same thing over and over. Go back and count them , I did. If you basing your information on the number of pages in the topic, you can be fooled because as Dave Painter did, (not picking on u really) he was having a conversation with several people on this topic forum making it look as if hundreds of people are chimming in on this topic! Bottom line is people complained last year about having to travel a long distance to play one match. The league did lisen and is saving you money by not having 4 events. Yes they're saving money too, so what ! Bottom line, same amount of paintball,less money on travel expenses. Bino quit complaining !! You do it every year...everyone should pay him no mind! Chris R. dont know why but you have a problem with this league too. You have said the same thing every year also just to stir people up. (If you add up the costs the AXBL are million'ers its not fair). Why do you state your oppinion in a league you have nothing to do with! Oh yea thats why u state your oppinion u dont doing anything for this league. Grow-up and knock it off! JDEv- the moderator funny you have had some negitive things to say about this league in the past too, If you really were doing your job u would see that Chris R and Bino are just stirring the pot ! Same thing everyyear ! you should remove there posts just on that primous alone. but a guess everyone cant be perfect. Just as u should remove the posts by the the people that support the Headrush League.( They have a nice product but should it be discust here, no.) Lets just all stick together the economy sucks and everyone is trying to do there best! Lets all work together to make this year a successful year. And thats to have fun playing paintball.- Sorry about my spelling error's and grammer(i know someone will make slam for them). PS - just because you bought a team that was in the playoff's in 2009 doesnt mean that team will make it in 2010-- you didnt buy the the players just the franchise name.
For the amount of money paid and the remaining to be paid, there should be more effort by the League to contact all the owners. I don't know anywhere else in paintball where you write a nice big check and then they say we'll get back to you 2 months and tell you how its going to be, regardless of your input or the desires of a number of owners (not just 1).

For the amount of *****ing and complaining we get about the NEPL, they at least they go out of their way to hold captains meetings, vote on rules and format specifics, even hold a Combine to help teams fill out their rosters. And they charge less than AXBL does, even with the move to franchises for the 2010 season.

For all the people who think Dave and the rest are being unreasonable, would you not feel a bit miffed if certain expectations were set last season, and then once the money was in hand, they then announce that those expectations will not be fulfilled....

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Old 01-25-2010, 01:15 PM #300
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Tugboat1200,

I think the only major issue I have with your post is the lack of punctuation - a carriage return every now and then would help

I'm not *****ing about Sodus because of the playing surface, though I believe the playing surface was less then acceptable on field 3. Fields 1 and 2 where awesome to play on (Though I don't actually play). The issues behind Sodus have to do with general location and the proximity to other amenities (hotel/Food/etc..).

As for talking to the league about an event in New England - why would I have thought things where going to change from the previous year? There were additional ownership interested (additional franchises) in New England compared to last year. I was under the impression that the league would hold at least one event in New England. And in fact I believe the league had talked about possibly going to Southcoast Paintball.

Unfortunately I was completely blindsided by the decision to not hold any events in New England.

As for airing dirty laundry in public (or at least on a public forum) - we weren't offered another forum in which to air that laundry. In fact, the owners I've talked to that attending the owners meeting in 2007 said that it wasn't even a place to air dirty laundry - it was a reading of the rule book for the most part. In fact, one owner went on to say he questioned why he would drive such a great distance (8 hours I think he said) to atttend such a "Meeting".

Bottom line - the league doesn't understand it's customers. Over the past several years the customer base has changed to some degree. More franchises are now owned by business owners (Such as myself) and not by the players. Unfortunately for the league, the business owners expect more from the league.

As for making millions - I think it is a very limited few people who make a great living off this sport (excluding the manufactures). We all manage to get by and continue to support the sport more out of love and passion then financial gain.
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Old 01-25-2010, 03:36 PM #301
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KidInfamous,

A couple of points:

1) You might want to talk to John before you post that his field might have been passed over. The details are a bit different then that (I know - because I had an extensive conversation with John this morning).

2) I can't say I know Mitch or why he runs this league, but the business person in me says it's because he's making some money. I'm not saying millions, but he's scratching out a living between running the store and running the league. I would be surprised to find out that Mitch was cutting and running if he was still making what he thought was an acceptable amount of money for the effort he's putting in - has nothing to do with the level of *****ing or level of his ignoring people.
good point i mean i know john had mentioned he wanted to hold and event at jaw and i know we have the room there. but again what is said is what becomes real is two seperate things.
an as you say scratching to get by i pretty much work so i can play paintball.
again i would have liked multiple locations and the sodus field i was on was rather lack luster. again there is not a whole lot we can do with this upcoming season. most we can hope is for something to work out next year.
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Old 01-25-2010, 04:00 PM #302
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Sorry, I missed english class growing up. The point being it shouldn't have blindsided you, I just picked up the phone and called NVP (Mitch) and was able to talk to him (Mitch). As should you have been able to do! You should have been kept informed, agree with you !
I dont know how I was able to contact him and you cant, thats all ! As for the millions made, I was referring to the comments that Chris R was making. I know anyone can easily been misslead. I know the example I gave you about going to NJ upset alot of NY teams at the time. Oh well , I've have to go back to school to learm proper punctuation. The league I hope after all, can respond to you in private. Its not nesessary here.
You have some great teams and leagues in NE hopefully things will work out. I just didnt think some of the topic's should have been aired here. Write me a PM if you would like ! As should the all the owners between each other if there are concerns with the AXBL.

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Old 01-25-2010, 04:50 PM #303
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everyone here confuses me, and disguises me.

You wanted more matches per event... now you have two

You wanted less travel time. LAST time i check the events are held in the middle of the locations of all of the teams. So there is less travel time for everyone. No more flying to events no more 12 hour drive times from main to pa. Ironically the teams that complain always have to travel the least. I never once heard Bronx hate (from canada) complain about the travel time while at AAPP.

You wanted it to be cheaper.. now you have three events. That is less travel money, less hotel fees, less food fees, less everything.

You talk about how the AXBL dosent listen... they made all of these changes to better serve you. Things you wanted. Now you are threaten to leave if they dont "listen to you."

sometimes people will surprise you with the constant negativity.
theres a good point here...everyone did want 2 matches per event...maybe Mitch could add the extra event and teams could travel 4, 6, 8, or 10 hours to play "1" match that maybe means absolutly nothing!!!!!! that sucks!!

my .02

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Old 01-25-2010, 05:10 PM #304
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Attica Distortion - didn't you already vote with your feet - sold your franchise and went to the NYPL?
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Old 01-25-2010, 05:25 PM #305
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Attica Distortion - didn't you already vote with your feet - sold your franchise and went to the NYPL?
wtf dave that hurts! sorry to say i sold my franchise at the end of 08 way too much strain on my wife and kids!

And i like live on the other end of your problem BUT we did and as much as it sucks...........

ENOUGH IS ENOUGH EITHER FORFIT YOUR "FRANCHISES" or play out the season and dont come back! end of story...

I have no stake here i will stop posting! just trying to offer my 2 cents sorry!

we will make the trip to both sodus event with the fam see you all there!
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Old 01-25-2010, 05:56 PM #306
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looks like our problems solved, AXBL just folded........wonder i we gettin back our money?
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Old 01-25-2010, 05:58 PM #307
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looks like our problems solved, AXBL just folded........wonder i we gettin back our money?
wow holy ****ing bull**** batman.
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Old 01-25-2010, 06:08 PM #308
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looks like our problems solved, AXBL just folded........wonder i we gettin back our money?
just saw that 2 its retarded but yes it said to contact them about a refund
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Old 01-25-2010, 06:22 PM #309
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