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Old 01-10-2010, 10:11 PM #1
flyti21
 
 
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is Pevs/PTS dead?

i've been watching this forum slowly die over the years. what's going on? being on the outside looking in it looks like the league is a joke. to be honest, too many immature kiddies for it to ever seriously take off.

i thought their new field was supposed to blow up the paintball scene in northern va / east coast. there are still sticky threads for the 2008 free agent list and 2007 PTS dates....embarrassing.

did ****ty hogback take back over the market? haha
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Old 01-11-2010, 06:47 PM #2
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Pevs is doing a robust business, their fields are booked with private groups almost every weekend and they pull a good number of people for recball/walk on play as well (though the current weather has probably hurt them). The trouble is that there aren't as many tournament teams as there were 6-7 years ago. Long gone are the days when you'd have 30-40 teams in a PTS 3 man division (like in 2003). They're lucky to pull 10-20 teams for a tournament. I don't think this really has much to do with Pevs, the people running the event or reffing it, as much as it has to do with the diminished number of people getting into paintball and staying in paintball on the tournament side. Numbers are static or down across the board in the vast majority of locations. The PTS isn't the only one.

Now, there's some hate in here about the season ending prizes and several other things and that may hurt the PTS in terms of participation. I don't really much care since I view tournament paintball as a recreational endeavor only. If you're in it for the money or prizes, it's largely a negative equity proposition with good money being invested to chase bad. I do sympathize with people's frustrations though.

Hogback is still doing a decent business...AG even still pulls decent sized groups on occasion. Warplay down near Culpeper is doing well too. There's still paintball to be played.
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Old 01-12-2010, 06:32 AM #3
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See I dsiagree with what Mr. Lopez is saying about paintball diminishing. Paintball is still in the top 5 fastest growing extreme sports in the world.

The reason why Pev's is having so many problems is lack of leadership and commitment to what it has promised to the players that play in the tournaments and leagues. One of the big reasons that Pev's tournaments aren't flourishing like it used to is due to other tournaments, i.e. GPL/EPL/CFOA among others, with bigger payouts and better season ending prizes, i.e. world cup entry and guns. I am new to this area, but have heard how big the tournaments used to be and I can only speculate after last season, the attendance is only going to go down even more. The other thing that Mr. Lopez missed is that there is not only 3-man there any more. There is also 5 man as well as the big tournament with the DC Open. But with the way Pev's is treating it's loyal teams with lies and deciet, no one is respecting them anymore as a good local tournament that brings in teams from MD, DE, WV and other areas.

Pev's does make a lot of money from private parties and I can respect that. But a lot of what Pev's makes is from word of mouth from other ballers or families of ballers that play there.

To be honest with you, no fields are doing very good right now. They are doing decent, but as the season gets closer and teams start to really ramp up, things will change. I hope that Pev's sees the error of there ways and changes, but when you run a business, you only see one thing and that's "DOLLAR SIGNS." Mr. Lopez is right, there is a lot of paintball to be played. Ballers are just finding other places to play besides Pev's and will continue to find other places till Pev's owns up to what it promised.
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Old 01-12-2010, 07:50 AM #4
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I have only ever played at Pev's once in my 4-5years of tournament paintball. I loved the fields and what they had to offer. What I would really like to see is the PTS to get up and running again. Most people are in it for the money but some aren't. My team and I are in it for the fun of the game and would love to play the PTS season if there is one this year. Hopefully someone at Pevs will see this and realize that some people do want to play the PTS series but its up to Pevs to really make it happen. DO what needs to be done to get this tournament series up and running in the right direction.
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Old 01-12-2010, 02:45 PM #5
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Pev should bring back Rab. He was the only one who knew how to run things they way they should. He brought in business and kept them at the same time. kids have even made it to the pro league emerging from the PTS. promise to treat him right this time, and he might come back
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Old 01-12-2010, 05:32 PM #6
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Pev should bring back Rab. He was the only one who knew how to run things they way they should. He brought in business and kept them at the same time. kids have even made it to the pro league emerging from the PTS. promise to treat him right this time, and he might come back
Agreed -- and in my mind pevs is dead. When you
can no longer afford to give out what is owed, your dead. Unethical companies never survive.
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Old 01-12-2010, 06:03 PM #7
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See I dsiagree with what Mr. Lopez is saying about paintball diminishing. Paintball is still in the top 5 fastest growing extreme sports in the world.
Who said paintball was diminishing overall? Tournament paintball locally is lacking in bodies. Having played locally for the last 8 years, I've seen a marked decline in participation and not just at Pevs. Recreationally, Paintball pulls in large numbers of people. Most of those participants are in private groups and the number of repeat players who come out more than once every few months is smaller than in years past. Recreational paintball (i.e. woodsball) is the lifeblood of the sport. Rec players vastly outnumber those who play tournament ball. The majority of the business that OA, Pevs, Hogback, AG, and Skyline do is in recball/woodsball play and not through tournaments. The number of regular tournament players is down, at National Events, at local events, period.

Quote:
The reason why Pev's is having so many problems is lack of leadership and commitment to what it has promised to the players that play in the tournaments and leagues. One of the big reasons that Pev's tournaments aren't flourishing like it used to is due to other tournaments, i.e. GPL/EPL/CFOA among others, with bigger payouts and better season ending prizes, i.e. world cup entry and guns.
Even the participation at the tournaments you cite isn't as strong as in past years. World cup in particular. I went in 2007 and it was a shell of what it used to be. I heard from several others who went in 2008 and 2009 that it was even smaller. Several USPL events last year had significantly smaller fields of teams than in years past. The local tournament scene is hurting due to a lack of regular, repeat tournament players getting into the sport. You can argue what you'd like about Pevs and their support to the PTS, but that's just one minor thing and a very recent development.

Quote:
I am new to this area, but have heard how big the tournaments used to be and I can only speculate after last season, the attendance is only going to go down even more. The other thing that Mr. Lopez missed is that there is not only 3-man there any more. There is also 5 man as well as the big tournament with the DC Open. But with the way Pev's is treating it's loyal teams with lies and deciet, no one is respecting them anymore as a good local tournament that brings in teams from MD, DE, WV and other areas.
I don't really understand what you're getting at, there's been 5 man tournaments locally for the last 10-15 years. Skyline's had one for as long as I can remember. Pevs even had a five man division for a while in the PTS six or seven years ago. Eventually they had trouble pulling teams for it. Dennis could probably comment on that better than I could.

Unlike you, I have been playing here for the better part of the last decade and can speak with authority that the drop in teams isn't due to competing tournament series but from fewer people playing tournament paintball. The number of teams has been on a slide for years. I'm sure Matt and several of the other guys that have been playing for years will attest to that. The drama about the PTS and issues people have with Pevs are a recent issue.

I hate to say it, but tournament paintball is cyclical. Every three years or so the player base turns over. People become overtaken by life, have transitions in their lives (college, graduation, jobs, families, kids, etc.) or just get burnt out and move on. This is true of the major teams and the lower level, three man teams in the PTS. Despite everything that's happened, I'm sure there will be teams playing next year. Much as there were teams a few years ago when there was end of the year prize drama (teams got different markers than those advertised). People's righteous indignation will fade or they'll disappear and new people won't know anything about the drama that's transpired. The PTS will pull in teams and the tournament series will move on. It's just going to happen with fewer players, due to fewer people getting into tournament paintball due to it's prohibitive cost, a down economy and several other factors (which don't include the perception of Pevs).

This is an expensive sport and with the current state of the economy parents are less likely to shell out several hundred bucks a month for practice and tournament paint, let alone high end gear. If you see a marked decline in participation, that's your likely culprit.

Quote:
Pev's does make a lot of money from private parties and I can respect that. But a lot of what Pev's makes is from word of mouth from other ballers or families of ballers that play there.
Frankly, almost all of the money Pevs makes likely comes from private groups, and recball walk-on play. Tournament teams coming to play on the turf arent likely to be significantly influenced by the postings on PBNation. They'll want to play on the high grade turf and the professional grade fields that Pevs has. They're not going to care about how people got hosed on season ending prizes. I'd be surprised if Pevs doesn't cater more towards the private groups than the walk-on airball players. It's better for their business. Hell, my private groups that I bring out likely make them as much as 10 three man teams per visit.

Quote:
To be honest with you, no fields are doing very good right now. They are doing decent, but as the season gets closer and teams start to really ramp up, things will change. I hope that Pev's sees the error of there ways and changes, but when you run a business, you only see one thing and that's "DOLLAR SIGNS."
Do you have something to back this up? There are several fields, Pevs included that are doing just fine. Warplay, Hogback and Skyline among them. They're just not relying on the business to come in from tournament paintball.

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Pev should bring back Rab. He was the only one who knew how to run things they way they should. He brought in business and kept them at the same time. kids have even made it to the pro league emerging from the PTS. promise to treat him right this time, and he might come back
Actually, if they were going to bring anyone back it would be Dennis. He was the one that did most of the PTS planning on operation. Rab was the face you saw coordinating the team on the day of the event. Dennis did the brackets and seeding, his wife kept track of scores, Dennis handled coordination with the teams to ref. Rab basically handled disputes and from what I saw did it in coordination with Dennis. I like Rab, but when I was playing in the PTS in 2003 and watching friends play in 2004-2006 Dennis was doing the bulk of the heavy lifting so to speak.

In the end, Will Allen (formerly of Justice...if you're not sure who he is, buy the 300fps DVD, he's the guy on the cover) is going to be running the PTS next year. He's a seasoned professional who knows how to put on a quality tournament and has played all over the world in them. I'll be interested to see what he does.

Last edited by lopez17 : 01-12-2010 at 06:06 PM.
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Old 01-12-2010, 07:33 PM #8
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Actually, if they were going to bring anyone back it would be Dennis. He was the one that did most of the PTS planning on operation. Rab was the face you saw coordinating the team on the day of the event. Dennis did the brackets and seeding, his wife kept track of scores, Dennis handled coordination with the teams to ref. Rab basically handled disputes and from what I saw did it in coordination with Dennis. I like Rab, but when I was playing in the PTS in 2003 and watching friends play in 2004-2006 Dennis was doing the bulk of the heavy lifting so to speak.

In the end, Will Allen (formerly of Justice...if you're not sure who he is, buy the 300fps DVD, he's the guy on the cover) is going to be running the PTS next year. He's a seasoned professional who knows how to put on a quality tournament and has played all over the world in them. I'll be interested to see what he does.
and who do you think taught dennis how to do things? rab is a well known event coordinator/producer. pev hired him for his Marti Gras events. granted, the bad weather put an end to all that, but that was out of rab's control. almost everything about the pts that dennis did, he probably learned from rab.

Will will probably do a great job. he'll bring organization and discipline to the events. his military background and out right smarts will help out no doubt. hope he does a good job of promoting the events and convince teams to travel like they used to.

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And to the idea of bringing Rab back. Rab was fired, from doing the PTS's because rab cost them alot of money, and he was constantly Insubordinate and would talk back to todd. and would tell them what they needed to do with the events and todd would constantly ignore his sugestions. Lets face it marty and tracy ran sum of the best PTS events most of us will ever see.

i dought highly tht the pts will every be what they were in the past year and ahalf.
rab cost them a lot of money, true. did he deserve more? most likely. i don't know the facts about him leaving pevs, but if he was insubordinate, it's probably because rab knew what needed to be done, and todd would ignore his suggestions as you say. i've never been to a pts that marty and tracy ran, but all i can say is, the PTS was a respectable tournament league when rab ran things. teams would travel from all over to compete and some teams actually had skill. teams now are mostly local and without rab's presence with teams and clinics, the chances of anyone around here going pro is little to non.
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Old 01-12-2010, 10:48 PM #9
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The PTS events that Marty and Tracy ran were garbage compared to back in the day. Just sayin.
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Old 01-13-2010, 10:36 AM #10
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Rab and Dennis coordinated one of the best-run series that I have ever played in. I have a ton of tournament experience and I will back either of them up any day. One thing that I would like to state is that I dont thing Rab was fired ( I may be wrong, I have never asked him), but I do know that right after he left he started working for pro-caps and he now sells paint to pretty much the whole east coast and is moving west. I believe Pev may have even helped him to get this job. So in a sense he may have been promoted and not fired, but again I dont know all the logistics and that is Rabs business.
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Old 01-13-2010, 02:10 PM #11
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Rab was a great friend and a great guy. He ran an AMAZING tournament and i LOVED playing it. I do know though that the new PTS has not given out series prizes yet. Mike Pev Promises them. But i dont know. I do miss how it was back at the leesburg field though. Brings back amazing memories.

If any of you remember me this is Wade btw
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Old 01-13-2010, 02:22 PM #12
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Wow.

A lot of speculation in here. And people talking about things they know nothing about.
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Old 01-13-2010, 02:29 PM #13
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Pev's Paintball Park & Pro Shops commented on their wall post (this can be found on their Facebook Page):

"At the begining of the season, it was announed that due to scaled back sponsorships from manufactuers like Dye, Eclipse, JT, etc due to the economy, we would not have overall series prizes. Please look at every flyer for last year, never did we mention series prizes. Instead, it was more valuable to the teams and players to be able to play on the nicest turf on the east coast. If you read the postings from the Pro Teams that played at the USPL held at Pevs in August, you will see the players said "there wasnt anything better and that they wish all the events were held at Pevs because of the amazing turf fields". The cost of turf fields to install, MAINTAIN, and CLEAN at the end of every day is 100% times more costly than grass fields.

I have an idea, if teams want series prizes again, we can do all the PTS events on the grass fields so we dont have the cost of clean up. Did you guys ever notice what happens to the paintballs at the end of the day? They are all picked up because unlike grass fields, they dont disolve into the ground. This is why the turf fields cost more to play, CLEAN UP!

The Teams said they would rather play on amazing turf fields that are soft, with no rocks or puddles instead of getting great prizes. So we answered with two turf fields, EACH one costing $100,000 to install. Pev's lost money on the PTS, but because we want our customers to have the best tournament field to play, it was worth it.

So, I ask you, do you care about playing the sport you say you love, or do you just care about prizes? It should be ALL ABOUT THE GAME, which means the best fields to play on.

We have Pro Teams traveling across country this year just to use Pev's turf fields to practice, because they say "its the best anywhere"."
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Old 01-13-2010, 03:41 PM #14
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Wow.

A lot of speculation in here. And people talking about things they know nothing about.
Thanks Matty, I was beginning to wonder if I was the only one that felt this way.
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Old 01-13-2010, 09:24 PM #15
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PTS reff by:

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PLUS "RAB'

Pirceless

Bring him back or somebody step-up and work it out!!!
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Old 01-14-2010, 10:01 AM #16
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Wow.

A lot of speculation in here. And people talking about things they know nothing about.
we may not know all the details, or just going off experience and our views instead of the truth BUT we do know that rab ran things great. that is all
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Old 01-14-2010, 04:12 PM #17
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who is this matt/mcgyver anyways?
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Old 01-15-2010, 07:50 AM #18
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Somebody who has played at the field for a long time and who also worked at one of the stores. Lopez above also has a long history with Pevs. If you used to play when the field was at Woodbridge then you have been around for a while.
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Old 01-23-2010, 05:25 AM #19
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I will have to say I completely agree with Matt on all of this.

and *highfive* to Wade, agreed on amazing memories.
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Old 01-24-2010, 01:14 PM #20
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Team Firecrotch goes back lol. I love how Ron died his hair
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Old 02-11-2010, 02:29 PM #21
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i quit paintball b/c its too expensive... i think a lot of tournment players went to college like myself. rab and the og's made pts so fun. pevs has terrible customer service now. imo
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