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Old 01-10-2010, 04:06 PM #1
stevebski
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LI Big game helicopter

hey guys, I was just watching a now infamous commercial and it made me start thinking. Air support. I do remember the big game on long island had a helicopter. Did it actually shoot on the players below? How did they get that to work with insurance and all? Anybody have more information about this particular game and the use of the helicopter?
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Old 01-10-2010, 05:34 PM #2
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Ive been to a few LI big games. As i recall the chopper does shoot at you. you are not allowed to shoot at it. They really stressed that point.

No idea about the insurance but it was really cool. you think people run when a tank is coming you should see what they do when a chopper is hovering above them lol.
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Old 01-10-2010, 06:45 PM #3
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I so could work on building a mosquito XE for the sole purpose of providing close air support if it really is legal to do...

Hell, even a two person trike powered glider would work.
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Old 01-10-2010, 06:49 PM #4
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i was thinking about a b52 filled with grenades and paint filled water balloons lol
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Old 01-10-2010, 08:58 PM #5
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yeah, but the size of the runway you'd need for an operation like that is a bit impractical. lol.

Can you imagine paint filled balloons just cluster bomb a field during a major skirmish? people would be like "wtf?"

I'm still working on getting artillery approved. Shooting the next size up in stabilized nerf footballs as howitzer rounds as true indirect fire. Something about an object such and such big knocking off so and so's facemask...
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Old 01-10-2010, 09:05 PM #6
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yeah, but the size of the runway you'd need for an operation like that is a bit impractical. lol.

Can you imagine paint filled balloons just cluster bomb a field during a major skirmish? people would be like "wtf?"

I'm still working on getting artillery approved. Shooting the next size up in stabilized nerf footballs as howitzer rounds as true indirect fire. Something about an object such and such big knocking off so and so's facemask...
Hey for that artillery idea I have an idea for it just make a large Nerf shooter have 2 prongs at end that you can pull out and stabilize it an just load paint grenades and water balloons with paintball paint.
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Old 01-10-2010, 11:02 PM #7
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yeah, but the size of the runway you'd need for an operation like that is a bit impractical. lol.

Can you imagine paint filled balloons just cluster bomb a field during a major skirmish? people would be like "wtf?"

I'm still working on getting artillery approved. Shooting the next size up in stabilized nerf footballs as howitzer rounds as true indirect fire. Something about an object such and such big knocking off so and so's facemask...
ive got real good as shooting our 3 inch mortar wil minimul barrel breaks. you can malke the rounds so they weigh only 6 oz or so. or bigger at about 9. i m talking about a paint filled ballon. We got in APG magazine for landing a direct hit in a landing craft at Skirmish ION a few years ago before the gate dropped lol.
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Old 01-11-2010, 10:01 AM #8
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I played in a scenario game at LowCountry Paintball in Georgia where the producer had 4-5 guys all padded up who had a sack of paint grenades each.They would run through any firefights that had "stalled" due to lack of player movement and throw the grenades.Any player with grenade paint on them was called out by the refs.I believe it was called "carpet bombing".
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Old 01-13-2010, 11:58 AM #9
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Quite a while back they decided it was not a good idea to shoot squad busters out of paintball cannons. Took a guys mask off his head from 40 or so yards out and put him on the groound. No injury. Just a little too much mass to be firing at any signifcant velocity even though I would guess a good fastball pitcher could do the same thing. Close call with the paintball guardian angels looking out for us. A lesson learned.

Simularly back in the good old days before Nerfs we used 'shotgun' rounds of 20 paintballs. They were strictly anti tank only and could not be used as an anti infantry weapon. Again too much mass to shoot directly at players. Especially at closer ranges. One shotgun round that had laid around all winter and glued itself into a solid mass went THROUGH the windshield of Bill Baily's tank at his home field during practice. The new Tour of Duty season started with a new rule that all paintball rounds had to be made on sight with paint HE provided before the beginning of the game.

So lets not forget lessons learned in the past.

Still, this SPORT desperately need Artillery and Air Support in our quest for realism. Even the Colonial and Civil War Games had Artillery and from WW-I on Aircraft.

I'm told that dropping or shooting any objects out of an aircraft under FAA regulations is a serious violation. Makes sense.. Ditto firing AT aircraft. Also regs about low flying air craft and ultralights/experimental aircrafts over populated areas such as a paintball field with 4000 players and spectators. Also makes sense. Don't know for a fact though.

Fortunately we have solved the problem with ground based helos and aircraft. A single player with a get up that vaguely looks like a helicopter. Often just a pole with a propeller on top. For an 'attack helo' they give the guy a marker and maybe two hand thrown Nerf "hell fire" missles He just runs around the field literally straffing or blowing up things like tanks and HQs. Take him down with a Nerf round out of a tank or LAWS. Maybe take down with 'small arms' fire by hitting a 1-2 inch taped area around the vertical post with the propellor on top. You could always get fancy and put wings and a tail on a ALICE backpack frame. Seen pics of them.

Helos are restricted by a fuel 'Time Limit' (10 minute egg timer..) If they exceeded it before returning to base to refuel, they had to make an emergency landing and it could be captured, destroyed, or refueled and flown out. Really adds to the dynamics of a game. Air support can turn the tide of an attack in a minute just like the real aircraft do.

Having aircraft is a way to deal with TOO MANY LAWS showing up at a game. Just make them dedicated 'STINGERS' for anti aircraft only.

Now artillery is another story. Shooting/Lobbing a Nerf 100 yards is possible but you have to have a ref that KNOWS it is coming and to watch the impact and to call out all the affected players within its kill radius. Was at one game that killed all unprotected players in line of sight of a structure that was taken out by a Nerf round. Ground impacts didn't count and we pretty much had to yell at a ref that we were firing. I was in my tank and could not go within 50 yards of the HQ. The HQ was 'hardened' and could not be destroyed by a Nerf round but after running it past the head ref by radio clarified that a hit on the HQ would kill exposed players around it. Here my autoloader came in handy. Blew up their insertion waiting for orders. Made them move WAY back out of range and to get their order and then the XO had to make a mad dash to get out of the HQ and not getting blown up in the process. Hard to get a mission off if you don't have a way to get orders to the troops. I had a VERY good day being a pain the the rear for them. They sent EVERYTHING they had out to kill me and my infantry support took care of them. My only threat was the helos. Had to take him out with my autoloading cannon. Here ROF is EVERYTHING. I started firing at 30 yards with him zigging and zagging like a tight end on a football field trying to get within throwing range and my infantry trying to see if he was wearing a cup.. With my breech loader cannon, I had to wait until I saw the whites of his eyes to fire. One shot or die. Nothing like a good fight...

But fields that use refs to call players out from artillery fire per se is rare.

I have a prototype flame thrower that has the potential for becomming artillery. Solves the problem of MASS. A spray of liquid short of a riot water cannon won't have much potential for injurying players. Espeically if it is mechanicallly rigged so it could not be fire below say 30 degrees elevation and the muzzle mounted fairly high like an artillery piece would be so some kid wouldn't run in front of the muzzle as you fire. Then the liquid that impacts in the 40-100+ yard range would be at terminal velocity and spread out. That would make it pretty much idiot proof in the safety department.

Now flamethrowers have NEVER been popular and now even less so with the concern the electromarkers have about getting their expensive marker wet. Besides nobody wants to get HOSED with anything, liquid is heavy. Not suitable for hand carried devices but suitable for something WHEELED or mobile like Artillery or Armor.

Flamethrower typically have no range. 25 FEET would be a good one. The water breaks up into droplets and looses velicity very quickly. The more pressure you put behind it the faster it atomizes and breaks up into smaller droplets sooner. The more pressure the less range. FYI 80- 125 psi for a 1/8" nozzle is optimum for water. Well, I got mine up to 25 Yards with 200 psi out of that same 1/8" nozzle by THICKENING the fluid. A 50 / 50 mix of regular dry wall mud and water. Tripled the RANGE of my Flamethrower.

Got me to PONDERING again........ How FAR would it go IF I used PLAIN drywall mud out of a 1/4", 3/8", 1/2", 5/8" nozzle? How much PSI would it take to go 100 yards? 500 psi? 1000 psi? 3000 psi? It would spread out into smaller and smaller globs up to a point. I stopped at 5/8" as nobody should have an safety issue about a glob of drywall gooh the size of a paintball with no shell at terminal velocity.

Instead of a HOSE, I was thinking an oversized squirt gun using a pneumatic or hydralic cylinder depending on the psi needed. A 'squirt' of gooh a couple feet long and 5/8" diameter might make a decent 'spread' at 50 -100 yards and mark players just like a hand grenade. No refs required. Honor system would work as well as ever. Might even have a good splatter effect hitting the ground and bunkers. Then each "round' could be 'walked' in onto a position with a forward observer or a good set of binoculars. Just like real artillery.

The squirt gun would be much more economical, portable, and realistic than a gigantic flamethrower with a 500 gallon tank. Used fire department pumpers would be a bit hard to come by but used hydralic cylinders can be had on e bay for a couple hundred bucks.

Then you get down to the design. How to fire it. How to refil it. Devil is in the details.

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Old 01-16-2010, 10:27 PM #10
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Dale, you gave me a few ideas. Back to the drawing board. When the guy on my team finishes his flame thrower which we are currently beta testing, I'll send you a youtube link of it in action.
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Old 01-17-2010, 04:26 AM #11
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"Fortunately we have solved the problem with ground based helos and aircraft. A single player with a get up that vaguely looks like a helicopter. Often just a pole with a propeller on top. For an 'attack helo' they give the guy a marker and maybe two hand thrown Nerf "hell fire" missles He just runs around the field literally straffing or blowing up things like tanks and HQs. Take him down with a Nerf round out of a tank or LAWS. Maybe take down with 'small arms' fire by hitting a 1-2 inch taped area around the vertical post with the propellor on top. You could always get fancy and put wings and a tail on a ALICE backpack frame. Seen pics of them.


That sounds quite lame. Id MUCH rather not see and air support in that case.Tanks and Artillery ect are supposed to add to the game not make it a laughing stock and complete joke.

As for the flamethrower a few years ago i came across one on youtube that worked VERY well it had to well over 50 feet.And i mean a nice stream of paint
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Old 01-18-2010, 08:30 AM #12
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Yeah I saw that flamethrower on U tube. Weighed a ton. Would not be fun to play with. I had one that held 2 1/2 gallons. Weighed 30 pounds. It now resides in a tank..

Stevie We are going to have to play together at some point in time.
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Old 01-20-2010, 09:02 PM #13
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lol, dale if I could afford to travel out your way I'd do so in a heartbeat.
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Old 01-25-2010, 03:45 PM #14
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Flamethrower typically have no range. 25 FEET would be a good one. The water breaks up into droplets and looses velicity very quickly. The more pressure you put behind it the faster it atomizes and breaks up into smaller droplets sooner. The more pressure the less range. FYI 80- 125 psi for a 1/8" nozzle is optimum for water. Well, I got mine up to 25 Yards with 200 psi out of that same 1/8" nozzle by THICKENING the fluid. A 50 / 50 mix of regular dry wall mud and water. Tripled the RANGE of my Flamethrower.

Got me to PONDERING again........ How FAR would it go IF I used PLAIN drywall mud out of a 1/4", 3/8", 1/2", 5/8" nozzle? How much PSI would it take to go 100 yards? 500 psi? 1000 psi? 3000 psi? It would spread out into smaller and smaller globs up to a point. I stopped at 5/8" as nobody should have an safety issue about a glob of drywall gooh the size of a paintball with no shell at terminal velocity.

Instead of a HOSE, I was thinking an oversized squirt gun using a pneumatic or hydralic cylinder depending on the psi needed. A 'squirt' of gooh a couple feet long and 5/8" diameter might make a decent 'spread' at 50 -100 yards and mark players just like a hand grenade. No refs required. Honor system would work as well as ever. Might even have a good splatter effect hitting the ground and bunkers. Then each "round' could be 'walked' in onto a position with a forward observer or a good set of binoculars. Just like real artillery.
100 yards... WAY TOO FAR for a "flamethrower". maybe like 15 or 20. and nobody wants to get a $400+ marker wet, or worse, covered in drywall mud. paint all up in your eyes is hard enough to clean out. that would definitely put you out of the game for quite some time. but i can see the effectiveness of a flamethrower. you always want to be the one behind it and NEVER infront. plus a 20 yard kill range of it would give peple a fighting chance of taking you out(if using a backpack like we did in japan ) i think a tank mounted one would be too unfair... but thats me
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Old 01-25-2010, 05:59 PM #15
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Hey Dale,
You coming out to White River in March?
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Old 01-26-2010, 10:04 AM #16
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Q. Don't have 2010 paintball calendar yet. Also have to rebuild my turret. Major upgrade. Have to get back to work in march and I don't know what my assignment is yet. Changed jobs last year to semi retire. Work two 13 week contracts a year. Off 6 months but the dates that I have to play are not set in stone until the ink is dry on the contract. That could mean I have lots of time or none for a given game.

Also have my first grand baby is due in April over in Barcelona Spain so a pair of plane tickets and a couple weeks stay in Spain is currently not in the bank.

The good news is I will have much more time to play and travel to games this year is the Master Plan works out. Bulk of it will be in the fall though.

Neal, I've heard this concern before and in principal kinda agree. Nobody wants to get hosed down and the electronic marker owners have a legit concern for their marker. That is why the thick fill, Squirt Gun rather than hose, and the high trajectory that breaks up the squirt in the air. When I used that mud 50-50 in my flame thrower I squirted it up over the top of a two story castle. Nobody came out with more than a 1/2" spot on them. They all looked like they got straffed by a squadron of geese poop. That is exactly what many of them thought too until the ref explained to them that they were on fire. They weren't very happy about being eliminated but satisfied me that this concept will work for every body in this sport. One guy complained he had to wash his camo twice to get the white out but he was OK with the mud and grass stains still left on his clothes.

But the rule of thumb I used is that it shouldn't be any more gooh on them or their marker than you normally get when hit by paintbalsl. It would be THICKER so it would be less likely to get into a marker than regular paintball gooh.

At 50 -100 yards it would be more like a grenade splatter than a paintball hit. We aren't supposed to be wearing our Sunday best. We and our markers should be prepared to get mud, paintball gooh, sweat, grass stains, grenade splatter, and the occasional splatter from an artillery piece marking you dead.

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Old 02-04-2010, 09:31 AM #17
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High Energy Paintball in Albany has two field artillery cannons at each end of the field, maybe 100 yds apart, in range of eachother. They fire some field-made rounds. He usually employs enough refs that when the cannons are in use, the refs can hear the cannon go off and call out anyone in the area where it lands. You need an FO if you are the gunner, but they run off compressed air tanks stashed next to each cannon and are so simple just about any player can use them (if you are tall enough to ram the round down). worth checking out
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Old 02-04-2010, 10:05 AM #18
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I so could work on building a mosquito XE for the sole purpose of providing close air support if it really is legal to do...

Hell, even a two person trike powered glider would work.
It's not even remotely close to being legal. It violates FAA regulations, which will result in a permanent revocation of your flying license, and/or a significant fine, and/or a stint in federal prison.

Paragliders and their motor driven cousins, previously, were potentially legal. They were largely unregulated and did not require a license. However, I believe it was still illegal to drop anything from them without special permissions. Since the sport pilots revisions, you're not required to have a license and subject to much more regulation.

Legalities aside, anybody operating any type of ultralight over the top of a paintball game in progress absolutely deserves to be grounded indefinitely. 1 little sputter from the engine, and you're landing whether you like it or not... except now you're landing in a populated, often heavily wooded area. The chances for fatalities amongst the fliers and spectators are quite high. There's a damn good reason US airshows don't allow aircraft to perform over the crowd.
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Old 02-13-2010, 06:46 PM #19
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Steve, I would like to contact Tippman to see if they would sponser my tank in some manner. Do you know anyone I could contact and at least discuss the subject. Not sure what it would take or what they would require of me. Maybe not even worth the effort. If I cannot contact them directly perhaps when I see one of their vendor tents at a game I'll bring up the subject and see where it goes. We currently have a sponser that gives us water for the games. Sometimes we get money from Staples for travel expensives. One of our team members is in management with that company. BTW, My tank was in a pic that showed in APG in the January edition. This pic is from a game I did in NC back in November. I have decided to play at SKirmish for their game in March. I wasnt going to go until the Russian General whom is a friend of mine emailed me and requested my tank. Its kinda ironic. The game director from Skirmish called me the other night and and asked me if I was coming back for this game. He indicated he would give me numerous perks if I showed. I am not a bribe type of person. If he wants to throw a perk our way thats fine. Apparantly he still may be embarrased on how he and the field owner insulted all the tankers at game pre-inspection at ION' 09. He indicated he has now implemented many changes since the last ION game and wants to show how things have improved. So I going back to see if he and the place has changed. I doubt it though. I know your feelings about the place. I wasnt going to go back but will give them one more chance. I do plan on going back to the NJ Nam game this Spring. My brother whom is my normal gunner/navigator is also planning to go. Last year he didnt show and I used a kid in my turret and got shot up most of the weekend because of it. My brother is a really good player and tanker. I think this year I'll get better results in the game with him. BTW, How is you new tank coming! Dont mean to talk to much. Kinda bored and looking to talk to someone.

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Old 02-13-2010, 09:50 PM #20
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shooting you a pm nelson
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Old 02-13-2010, 10:26 PM #21
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Ive been to a few LI big games. As i recall the chopper does shoot at you. you are not allowed to shoot at it. They really stressed that point.

No idea about the insurance but it was really cool. you think people run when a tank is coming you should see what they do when a chopper is hovering above them lol.
Add here's that chopper
www.YouTube.com/undertakerspaintball
click the chopper vid
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