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Old 01-03-2010, 06:00 PM #106
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Quote:
Originally Posted by spinny2559 View Post
I see nothing wrong with what he has to say either, but I'm not basing my statement on the truth of his, just apparent demeanor.
And in the event that this case has no jury, a standoffish attitude could effect a judge's decision more than a jury's. The law is the law, but no one can forget that the judge holds the power to differentiate between the letter of the law and the word of the law.
I think you're forgetting that the lawyers who are the ones who typically do the talking.
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Old 01-03-2010, 07:01 PM #107
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Lightbulb Craig Miller Replies...

WOW Again...

Here are answers to a few valid questions:

1) We did not actually "wait so long" to commence action against our competitors. Our actions began years ago, but it is not our style to try cases on Forums. This online approach was just brought here by our competitors. I am actually pretty happy to see how many ballers care about this so much! We massively appreciate the support of those who have correctly outlined the truth for us, while I was clearing snow with my tractor all day!

2) The HIGH Road: We have taken the high road throughout this discussion. We haven't said a single negative thing about their products, nor their people. We have only stated facts. We have made ZERO racist or derogatory remarks about the French or Chinese. The competitors are just trying to cast us in a bad light, but it's false - again. I've lived in a French Province of Canada (Quebec) for 10 years, and many of my best friends are French - including those who moved here from France - and I have some dear Chinese friends here as well. Through my 10 years with Procaps and PMI before that, I made many dear friends all across Europe.

If you review the threads, all of the distasteful remarks and libelous bad language and personal insults came from the competitors posters, constantly using language like "You SUCK" and you make "RETARDED bunkers" that look like "DOWNS SYNDROME" and "F-You" and worse. Families with members suffering from Mental Illness and Downs Syndrome have emailed me with their outrage about this action by the competitor.

These actions, name calling and gutter tactics, are not our style. Review the threads, take notes and keep score, and you'll see. This will tell you a lot about the "Who's Who" behind these companies.

As an American, I am indeed interested about our Country's financial future. People aren't turning to Ultimate Airball just because it's Made In USA - it's because we make a longer lasting product. That's not a derogatory remark about a competitor, it's just a factual statement about ours.

3) The Patent History, Short Version: In the mid-90's they patented Fan-powered bunkers all connected together with tubes. Truly brilliant idea, it created spectator ball and stadium ball, but the tubes and fans apparently "left something to be desired."
At the end of the 90's Ultimate Airball applied for a Patent and launched Ultimate Airball. This was made public knowledge through the proper channels. Meanwhile, the competitor we are discussing carbon-copied our product and launched it under the name "Ultim'Air", and began confusing customers into buying it.
Our Ultimate Airball Patent for tubeless, stand-alone inflatable bunkers was granted in 2007. These things take time.
We notified all of the Leagues and Competitors that we were open to an AGREEMENT. We never tried to stop anybody, we never tried to "end" anybody's business. We took the high road, once again.

4) If I seem cranky or condescending as accused by one poster, I certainly apologize. It's because this frustration has gone on for years. It's easy to say,
"Hey, they beat you with market share! Give Up"
Or
"They paid/sponsored more Leagues and used their Millennium Series "Love Promise" to win League alliances, so just Give Up" or even,
"Just go make something else" like one poster suggested.
Someone suggested that I am trying to "appeal to players" but I have a bad attitude? Guys, I AM still a Player, (if only a few times/year anymore- can my competitor say that?) and yes, maybe all of this negativity and name calling and false accusations have made me cranky - so I apologize.

But put yourself in the picture. Have you ever thought of a cool design or improvement for something in Paintball?
What if you dug into your savings to launch a new product, and within a short time, an ENTIRE INDUSTRY changed over to your better design.
Great!
You employ your whole Team, and your whole Family, and soon, you're paying all of your bills and then some.
But wait!
Then, someone carbon-copies your new thing and begins BUYING your market share?
What if they leverage and pressure and pay their way into all of the Major Leagues behind closed doors - including one that JUST FINISHED shaking your hand on a supply deal?
Should you just lay down and pretend it never happened?
Should you just Give Up because Patent cases are widely misunderstood?
Should you just say "Oh Well - it would be impolite to defend our legal rights since they're our guests from another country. Okay staff and employees - everybody go home now, no more jobs, we quit!"
Should you just invent something NEW again as one poster suggested, and wait for the whole process to be repeated?

When is it OK in Paintball to defend your innovation or invention?
We were taught by proud parents and teachers and role models to persist until we succeed.
We were never taught to just "give up" and walk away every time someone tries to steal from us. Especially not someone with WAY MORE MONEY than we had. We are merely trying to make a living. Isn't that fair?
It's not meant to be cranky or condescending.
We are just very passionate about our invention, which you have enjoyed and played on for years to the benefit of our patent-infringing competitor.
If my passion and ethusiasm for our excellent invention and superior products seems condescending, I apologize.
We are glad to see so many people coming to our aid on this forum, and our phone and email has been very busy all weekend, so I'll be happier now! Thanks.

5) And yes, we DO plan to be involved with Tom Cole and the UWL Events, and we have already committed to Tom Cole. Our website Gallery features some insanely cute UWL girls with our Camouflage bunkers. Check em out.

See ya out there!
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Old 01-03-2010, 07:23 PM #108
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sorry if this is out of place but i would like to know if sup air had to pay royalties since they obviously acknowledged your patent, definitely will help me put it into perspective.
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Old 01-03-2010, 07:31 PM #109
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TargetIndy View Post
I think you're forgetting that the lawyers who are the ones who typically do the talking.
Of course, but the president of the company (Craig) is likely going to take the stand as well.
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Old 01-03-2010, 07:31 PM #110
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All I care about in this whole fiasco is being able to play paintball - Craig, do you care if I get to play paintball?
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Old 01-03-2010, 07:41 PM #111
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FatalKitty View Post
All I care about in this whole fiasco is being able to play paintball - Craig, do you care if I get to play paintball?
I'm curious as to what this has to do with a legal battle between UA and Sup'Air?

It doesn't really matter who wins, neither will affect your ability to play paintball.
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Old 01-03-2010, 08:14 PM #112
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Originally Posted by Logan_Dizzle View Post
sorry if this is out of place but i would like to know if sup air had to pay royalties since they obviously acknowledged your patent, definitely will help me put it into perspective.
I'm fairly sure they did not pay the royalties. If they did, why would UA take legal action then?
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Old 01-03-2010, 08:20 PM #113
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exactly. they came to an agreement, if there were no dues being paid for this patent then UA was allowing the knock offs to be made, and distributed without compensation, so if SA was doing much better than UA why did UA at least keep them on a leash with rights to use the patent. he said she said and unofficial documentation is arbitrary. just seems really counter productive.

the best move is to prove SA was infringing patents (check) and have a court order SA to compensate UA for the years infringed, and future years. but still, seems a little weird.
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Old 01-03-2010, 08:29 PM #114
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interesting. it would be nice to see US made products again...
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Old 01-03-2010, 08:32 PM #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by the imitator View Post
please google "trias politica"

Theres no war in lawsuits,

and hes not suing europe, hes suing who`s responsible.

Edit: I would be very surprised if Mr. Miller was suing simply because the french...

Racism,war and proganda is what we DONT need in this thread.
I never said he was suing europe.. I never said he was suing because they are french... I am not trying to sell the hulk hogan " i am a real american " stuff..and i am not saying : buy chinese, buy french, or any other nationality...
I do not even care about this lawsuite.. I just do not like seeing somebody pick on a nationality because he has a problem with 1 person...
So i am sorry but i do not feel concerned by your last phrase.. Tell that one to mr miller...

I am just saying to him he should not use words like " the french " If he is talking about 1 person... Or even a french company... i can understand his anger and frustration, but there is no reason to generalise"

we will just wait and see the outcoming off this legal battle..
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Old 01-03-2010, 09:00 PM #116
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hey mr. miller thank you for clearing some of that up.

could you also take care of this one too?

Word on the street claims UA first tried to enlist the three letter league into a scheme where the league would promote and even broker sales for UA and, of course, use UA bunkers as the league's official bunkers. When the proposal was rebuffed then the litigation option was put on the table


is it true or not? and what exactly did SA do to break whatever agreement you had?
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Old 01-03-2010, 09:12 PM #117
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I am guessing he cannot go into details about the lawsuit as of yet.
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Old 01-03-2010, 09:14 PM #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord_Lippie View Post
If it wasn't for Ultimate Airball, we would still be tripping over tubes...
Support Ultimate, they worked hard to develop the bunker system we take for granted today.

to Ultimate Airball for finally taking back what's yours.


go get them ultimate. we had ultimate air bunkers. they lasted for 7 years.

if we could have gotten ultimate again we wouldve. we have airups, which are decent, but the ultimate bunkers seem like the vinyl is more durable and thick.
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Old 01-03-2010, 09:23 PM #119
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While I agree with UA on making sure they get whats rightfully theirs...

The UA website is kind of ridiculous...they openly attack supair and just look really childish with the remarks they put.

I still feel like something fishy went down if they let supair dominate the tourney scene for so long...do they really undercup UA prices so much that for 8 years all major tourneys used supair instead of UA? It would have made sense to be making some money as opposed to no money...there seems to just be a few local fields and scenarios using their bunkers.
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Old 01-03-2010, 09:48 PM #120
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Quote:
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While I agree with UA on making sure they get whats rightfully theirs...

The UA website is kind of ridiculous...they openly attack supair and just look really childish with the remarks they put.

I still feel like something fishy went down if they let supair dominate the tourney scene for so long...do they really undercup UA prices so much that for 8 years all major tourneys used supair instead of UA? It would have made sense to be making some money as opposed to no money...there seems to just be a few local fields and scenarios using their bunkers.
Quote:
EXTRA CREDIT: Ultimate Airball's Patent dates back to the past DECADE. We innovated tubeless bunkers. Ultimate Airball bunkers have been used at the World Cup, PSP, NPPL, Mardi Gras, Spyder Cup, Aruba Madness, IAO, Ultimate Madness, Golden Triangle, GPL, etc., etc. When our superior tubeless design became the STANDARD OF THE INDUSTRY, the foreigners tried everything they could to compete, and finally gave up and illegally ripped us off.
They had representation amongst the industry, they just started losing it to Sup'Air. How hard is it to believe that Sup'Air made deals beating out UA for market influence when Sup'Air outsources to China?

Quote:
Originally Posted by CraigMiller View Post
You employ your whole Team, and your whole Family, and soon, you're paying all of your bills and then some.
But wait!
Then, someone carbon-copies your new thing and begins BUYING your market share?
What if they leverage and pressure and pay their way into all of the Major Leagues behind closed doors - including one that JUST FINISHED shaking your hand on a supply deal?
They made something, someone copied it, had it cheaply made in another country, then re-introduced it under a similar name for cheap back into the U.S.

They were just granted the patent in '07, it's not like they've had the patent for 10+ years and have been sitting on their hands. They were a small company run by players, family and friends that got ripped off by someone with more money. If Sup'Air had enough money, they could afford to run their entire first year on a loss, simply to put their bunkers into major leagues, force UA out, and ensure that the next few years would be entirely theirs to profit from. Lose money for one year, gain market control for the next several years and recoup your losses + some, meanwhile driving your competitor out of business.
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Old 01-03-2010, 09:56 PM #121
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Mr miller, nice to see how you would like to turn this into USA vs France/China/Europe war just because your competitor happens to be French.

Goes to show who you really are, and what you stand for...

Just do not forget that paintball is still growing here in europe ( when at the same moment, paintball is slowing down in the usa ) and that with this kind of "Nationalism " you will not get many "future " clients here with that kind of talk...


P.s before you continue your hate, i am not french and i do not work in paintball....
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I never said he was suing europe.. I never said he was suing because they are french... I am not trying to sell the hulk hogan " i am a real american " stuff..and i am not saying : buy chinese, buy french, or any other nationality...
I do not even care about this lawsuite.. I just do not like seeing somebody pick on a nationality because he has a problem with 1 person...
So i am sorry but i do not feel concerned by your last phrase.. Tell that one to mr miller...

I am just saying to him he should not use words like " the french " If he is talking about 1 person... Or even a french company... i can understand his anger and frustration, but there is no reason to generalise"

we will just wait and see the outcoming off this legal battle..
I dont even know where to begin

First off, it isnt 1 person but in fact many people and branches and countries as Mr.miller has stated are involved. In this case why wouldn't you speak in the generalizations when you are one man speaking about the people of other countries and or businesses.

I am an American thus I support America, not that I don't respect other countries but this is my homeland. with most people in other countries its the same thing.

Now hypothetically if Mr. Miller was European and said "we are suing the americans! It wouldnt dawn on me for a second that such a business man would mean it in harm, no matter the race or anything of that sort. It just means someone in our country is getting sued, it happens daily.
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Old 01-03-2010, 10:27 PM #122
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His made in the USA bit was somewhat strange, seeing as the online information on the patent show's Mr Miller as residing in Canada. I do agree with him though, and from the checking I've been doing it seems as though they are indeed the original inventors of the hoseless system.

Also in my experience the Ultimate air bunkers do tend to hold up a bit better.
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Old 01-03-2010, 10:47 PM #123
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Why dosnt UA make proper/standard size bunkers. I really cant see any of the ones they use now in PSP/NPPL today.

Last edited by pbdude_905 : 01-03-2010 at 11:01 PM.
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Old 01-03-2010, 10:54 PM #124
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mfg in ohio craig lives in canada worked for procaps
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Old 01-03-2010, 10:57 PM #125
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7) Americans like you, including you young ballers, need to realize that "MADE IN USA" needs to mean something again FAST, or we'll all have to work in restaurants and gas stations.





Ummm I work in a gas station dont hate
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Old 01-03-2010, 11:02 PM #126
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Craig - Do what you have to do, I support American innovation. It is the reason why we as Americans get paid the way we are paid, we innovate while China just steals our ideas.
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