Hammer design - PbNation
Find fields & stores near you!
Find fields and stores
Zipcode
PbNation News
PbNation News
Community Focus
Community Focus

 
Archived Thread - Cannot Edit  
Old 10-08-2003, 10:45 PM #1
DaCow
 
 
DaCow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Calgary, Canada
 has been a member for 10 years
Hammer design

As I mentioned in a post a while back, I broke the pin off the front of my hammer. After getting a new hammer from a local shop, I was confronted with the fact that the design of the thing is bad at best.

I realize that the hammer/carrier is the way it is for a reason, and I realize that it would effect the gun if it weren't like this....but the pin is far to small for the purpose. All the stress placed on the hammer is placed on the base of a 1/8" piece of metal. The pin design, while amazing in theory, has resulted in poor results in reality. There have been multiple cases of stress failure reported on this board, it's a known issue to PMI...hell there were even 2 other Omens with the same problem sitting in the pro shop when I went in.

So here's my solution, someone in the know tell me if I'm going to cause more problems than what are out there now.

Make the pin fatter.

Simple as that.

Drill out the carrier housing to fit the fatter pin, and then machine a hammer with a fatter hammer. Does the pin have to be that thin for a reason? It's just hitting the valve stem...so my guess is no.

Either that, or do away with the fixed pin design and go with something like an old autococker sear....just a set pin. Drill a hole all the way thru the hammer so that the hex key end won't get mashed, loctite the sucker in and call it a day. If it shears off, put a key in and replace it for a whoping cost of about 4 cents.

Feedback?
DaCow is offline  
Old Sponsored Links Remove Advertisement
Advertisement
Old 10-09-2003, 03:37 AM #2
fulnix
 
 
fulnix's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Crapcago
fulnix is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
fulnix is an NCPA player
Wow, I was not aware of thsi problem. But hell yea...besides the bumper situation this is something that needs to be stongly suggested to aftermarket companies. Is there anyone out there thinking of makinginternals for the Omen? Besides Evil, I'd really like to see some company step up and put some effort into this shiz nat. Good call DaCow.
__________________
Yer Bud
FülniX

Bringin ya mAd bUnKEr love since 1993
fulnix is offline  
Old 10-13-2003, 06:20 PM #3
DaCow
 
 
DaCow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Calgary, Canada
 has been a member for 10 years
Hmm, no other feedback heh.

Well, there's a guy I know who is just wraping up his CNC MAchinists schooling right now. Told him about the problem, showed him the hammer...first thing he said "That pin should be bigger...want me to make you 1 when I finish up my courses?"

Me, "Dude!"

So I'll let ya know heh.
DaCow is offline  
Old 10-13-2003, 07:34 PM #4
Spartan X
Unbanned
 
Spartan X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Maryland
Spartan X is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
LoL, What you really need is one made of titanium that would do it...ummm dark hurrizions....
__________________
I am Spartan X. Then I was Spartan II I'm Back.

Old Feedback

My Lifestyle Determines My Deathstyle.
Spartan X is offline  
Old 10-13-2003, 07:38 PM #5
ShortStroke
*925* Word.
 
ShortStroke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Afghanistan
 has been a member for 10 years
Yeah, Dark Horizons definately the place to call for something Ti. But it really should be bigger. But good call DaCow, I didn't even realize it.
__________________
destroy.

My Feedback
ShortStroke is offline  
Old 10-14-2003, 01:58 AM #6
snipers002
A1C
 
snipers002's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Nellis AFB - Las Vegas
 has been a member for 10 years
i think the hammer pin is small for a reason. if the pin was bigger, the hole in the outer hammer would have to be bigger, allowing more air to enter there when the pin opens the valve and the air rushes back to recock the gun. since hte holes bigger more air would escape so that probably the reason why the pins small. just my guess.
__________________
I love JulietdApiglet! <3

feedback
feedback #2
ego fs(pics)
snipers002 is offline  
Old 10-14-2003, 02:03 AM #7
Huge
 
 
Huge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: ATL
Huge is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
how about make the pin somewhat cone shaped... giving the pin a wider base will make it stronger, and still maintain the small pin hole... you'd of course have to modify the bolt carrier as well.
Huge is offline  
Old 10-14-2003, 02:11 AM #8
Fusion213
PBN Noob
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Jacksonville, NC
 has been a member for 10 years
Cow means to make the pin larger and have the outer hammer have a larger hole too.
When the Omen is cocked, the cup seal pin goes through the outer hammer, so the cup seal pin will still be pressed down correctly when it's fired.

The pin on the inner hammer only comes above the outer hammer by a little tiny bit so that's the only part that MIGHT worry me. The best way to tell is to take out the valve and put the hammer up against it and see if it'll clear.
Fusion213 is offline  
Old 10-14-2003, 02:21 AM #9
Huge
 
 
Huge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: ATL
Huge is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
he suggest though to make the hammer larger due to the pin breaking on occassion, usually due to a bent tail or loose hammer plate. The pin does not break midway or near the top, it always breaks at the base of the pin, thus i suggested a generally cone shaped pin.
Huge is offline  
Old 10-14-2003, 03:35 AM #10
Huge
 
 
Huge's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: ATL
Huge is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
As an alternative why not make the whole hammer out of titanium? Lighter for less kick, and stronger to boot.
Huge is offline  
Old 10-14-2003, 04:30 AM #11
daveczrn
Dr. Evil
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: philadelphia
 has been a member for 10 years
huge i thought about that for one of my piranha's a couple years ago.... the weight of the hammer has everything to do with how long the valve opens, so for one you need a heavier hammer spring and also a lighter valve spring. with the heavier hammer spring you will make it have more kick. the best thing is a light spring on the hammer and a heavy hammer. that way it is more gental with how fast it moves and still has the power behind it to open the valve the right amount of time. i hope this makes sence
__________________


100% reason to remember the name
daveczrn is offline  
Old 10-14-2003, 06:55 AM #12
Spartan X
Unbanned
 
Spartan X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Maryland
Spartan X is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
Hey Guys, Do you want me to get a Hold of Dark and ask them if they will make a run of hammers if we can get so many pre-orderes?
__________________
I am Spartan X. Then I was Spartan II I'm Back.

Old Feedback

My Lifestyle Determines My Deathstyle.
Spartan X is offline  
Old 10-14-2003, 08:16 AM #13
ShortStroke
*925* Word.
 
ShortStroke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Afghanistan
 has been a member for 10 years
Dunno, we should get some more research done on this before we call anybody about it.
__________________
destroy.

My Feedback
ShortStroke is offline  
Old 10-14-2003, 08:37 AM #14
Spartan X
Unbanned
 
Spartan X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Maryland
Spartan X is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
One thing we hmay have to consider when installing a Lighter Ti striker is the spring tention. the Maximum velocity adjuster may have to be adjusted.
__________________
I am Spartan X. Then I was Spartan II I'm Back.

Old Feedback

My Lifestyle Determines My Deathstyle.

Last edited by Spartan X : 10-14-2003 at 08:58 AM.
Spartan X is offline  
Old 10-14-2003, 08:45 AM #15
ShortStroke
*925* Word.
 
ShortStroke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Afghanistan
 has been a member for 10 years
Why don't we just make a titanium pin?
__________________
destroy.

My Feedback
ShortStroke is offline  
Old 10-14-2003, 08:58 AM #16
Spartan X
Unbanned
 
Spartan X's Avatar
 
Join Date: Nov 2002
Location: Maryland
Spartan X is a Supporting Member
 has been a member for 10 years
Because for as fare as I know you can't just bind 2 tipes of medal like that, We could Coat it with Ti, but we can't just make a Ti pin, how would it mount to a stainless body?
__________________
I am Spartan X. Then I was Spartan II I'm Back.

Old Feedback

My Lifestyle Determines My Deathstyle.
Spartan X is offline  
Old 10-14-2003, 09:06 AM #17
ShortStroke
*925* Word.
 
ShortStroke's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Afghanistan
 has been a member for 10 years
Make a titanium body of course! Good point.
__________________
destroy.

My Feedback
ShortStroke is offline  
Old 10-14-2003, 12:22 PM #18
fulnix
 
 
fulnix's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Crapcago
fulnix is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
fulnix is an NCPA player
One way to take care of this is too weight the hammer. It seems that is kinda what Evil did with what is under the hammer. Make the hammer out of TI and then use the thing on the bottom as a counter weight to bring the hammer back up to the proper weight needed to open the valve. Sorry I don't know what all the parts are called. Sound like a good idea?
__________________
Yer Bud
FülniX

Bringin ya mAd bUnKEr love since 1993
fulnix is offline  
Old 10-15-2003, 12:53 AM #19
DaCow
 
 
DaCow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Calgary, Canada
 has been a member for 10 years
Stainless is still the best option I think. It has weight and is (for the most part) durable.

Also to clear up any misconceptions (and also so I don't have to go back thru this thread and re-read what everyone said ).

I plan to make the pin fatter and drill out the carrier to fit. I thought about the cone shaped pin Huge, but wouldn't the uneven shape cause the stress point to be in the middle then? Having just a simple pin allows the stress of the hit to be transfered to the base....which should be strong enough to handle the force.

This is also a couple months off, as he still has a few more classes to attend. But he's a good guy, I'm sure he won't mind making a couple versions to work out the bugs
DaCow is offline  
Old 10-15-2003, 12:55 AM #20
DaCow
 
 
DaCow's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Calgary, Canada
 has been a member for 10 years
As an afterthought.....

With all this talk of new hammer designs, titanium hammers, this that and the next thing.

Who's making the spring kit so that all these different weight hammers will work? Heh I'd like color coding on my springs please
DaCow is offline  
Old 10-15-2003, 02:26 AM #21
fulnix
 
 
fulnix's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Location: Crapcago
fulnix is a founding member
 has been a member for 10 years
fulnix is an NCPA player
Back in the day the Madman Kits where the pimp shiznat for the spyder. This is a similar application, if the company that made those would get on board that would rock.
__________________
Yer Bud
FülniX

Bringin ya mAd bUnKEr love since 1993
fulnix is offline  
 




Posting Rules
Forum Jump